The middle way

[jonnyws]

I read this article the other day and was wondering what other people thought of what is postulated:

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/16/popes-reform-of-the-reform-in-liturgy-to-continue/

The article claims that it is the Popes intention to reform the reform and produce a Mass that is closer to the letter of Vatican II and will eventually do away with both the NO and TLM.

What do you think?

Have you heard this rumour from any other source?

Thanks,

Jonny

 

[greenmoira]

You should read Universae Ecclecsiae just published on May 13th. I think it would answer a lot of your questions. It’s not a difficult read.

 

[TrueLight]

I read this article the other day and was wondering what other people thought of what is postulated:

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/16/popes-reform-of-the-reform-in-liturgy-to-continue/

The article claims that it is the Popes intention to reform the reform and produce a Mass that is closer to the letter of Vatican II and will eventually do away with both the NO and TLM.

What do you think?

Have you heard this rumour from any other source?

Thanks,

Jonny

That article makes a lot of sense. I do not see us having two forms in the future.

On the one hand, the Holy Father is saying that the EF is to be respected in theUniversae Ecclecsiae. Notice that the language is not that strong. At the same time there are changes being made to the OF missal to bring the language closer to the Latin translation.

This looks like an attempt to bring the two forms closely together, so much so that soon the differences won’t be so great.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

While it might not be a bad idea to bring the OF and EF together into one form, I don’t see that happening. If anything, I think what Pope Benedict XVI is doing is trying to giving proper place to those other rites that have never been abrogated, such as the EF and even some rites specific to religious orders. The upcoming revisions to the English translation are the work of Blessed John Paul II, begun in 2002 and taking an 8+ year period to “get it right”.

I think whoever wrote this is purely speculating (and maybe hoping?).

 

[TrueLight]

Whoa! Look at this comment in response to the article.

Pope Benedict XVI’s easing of restrictions on use of the 1962 Roman
Missal, known as the Tridentine rite, is just the first step in a
“reform of the reform” in liturgy, the Vatican’s top ecumenist said.​

The pope and cardinal Koch may have more on their plate than they ever bargained for. “Summorum Pontificum” and this latest decree will do more than start a new liturgical movement. We’re see experimentation on a scale never envisioned since the 16th century. This is now the pope’s parting shot at the SSPX and their ilk.

Pope Benedict has created an environment and a long needed opportunity for professional liturgists and creative amateurs , clerical and lay, to tinker with not just the 1962 rite, but the Pauline rite and all rites. All of this is to the good. Despite the fears of ultra traditionalists and others that liturgical anarchy is going to reign as a result of it.

We need to correct the failings of Vatican II, and it’s excesses, but we also need to look towards it’s perfection and beautification, and not our dependence upon an archaic rite, the Tridentine, as our only recourse. Let the mixing and matching of liturgies ,east and west, begin.

It’s time to bury Pius V and his heirloom liturgy imposed upon a desperate Church wishing to be freed at last from clown masses. Returning to decorous floor shows conducted by mumbling old cross dressers vesting themselves in mother’s silk gowns of silk and brocade before wedding cake altars is, perhaps, visually beautiful, but it is no way to reform the liturgy and it never was.

 

[Theophorus]

I read this article the other day and was wondering what other people thought of what is postulated:

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/16/popes-reform-of-the-reform-in-liturgy-to-continue/

The article claims that it is the Popes intention to reform the reform and produce a Mass that is closer to the letter of Vatican II and will eventually do away with both the NO and TLM.

What do you think?

Have you heard this rumour from any other source?

Thanks,

Jonny

I think that Cardinal Koch makes a good point actually.

The Holy Fathers intention is certainly reform of the reform, From reading first Ratzinger and now Benedict I get the impression that the Holy Father sees the Liturgy as something organic which develops slowly over time. The OF was put together very quickly(spliced and Genetically modified if I can push the analogy) after VII and is in need of reform to bring it into line with Catholic Tradition and the Hermeneutic of Continuity, thereby eliminating the need for two forms of the Roman Rite as we currently have and producing something closer to the idea of VII, something closer to the EF, and something in line with the hermeneutic of continuity.

This won’t be an overnight project however and what Benedict lays down in his pontificate will have its effect over decades. I’m 26 and I wonder if it will be completed during my lifetime.

 

[ConstantineTG]

That article makes a lot of sense. I do not see us having two forms in the future.

Why not? The Eastern Rites have used a host of Liturgies and other Liturgical services throughout any given year. Why should the Roman Church have just one? I would be glad to see development happen with the Extraordinaria and the Ordinaria that they would be used side-by-side in every parish, and not exclusively from one another.

 

[Theophorus]

Whoa! Look at this comment in response to the article.

I do love the herald, its a sound and orthodox paper the herald blog brings out some very interesting people who I reckon don’t get to let off steam elsewhere. I’ve had some fun winding them up. You should try and compare a sedevacantist or rad trad with hans kung and watch the fireworks

 

[puzzleannie]

I read this article the other day and was wondering what other people thought of what is postulated:

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/05/16/popes-reform-of-the-reform-in-liturgy-to-continue/

The article claims that it is the Popes intention to reform the reform and produce a Mass that is closer to the letter of Vatican II and will eventually do away with both the NO and TLM.

What do you think?

Have you heard this rumour from any other source?

Thanks,

Jonny

I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to pretend to speak for the Pope. If that were his intent today would not have been the first time the TLM has been celebrated at St. Peters in 40 years.

 

[TrueLight]

I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to pretend to speak for the Pope. If that were his intent today would not have been the first time the TLM has been celebrated at St. Peters in 40 years.

I was home all day and missed THAT?

 

[TrueLight]

Why not? The Eastern Rites have used a host of Liturgies and other Liturgical services throughout any given year. Why should the Roman Church have just one? I would be glad to see development happen with the Extraordinaria and the Ordinaria that they would be used side-by-side in every parish, and not exclusively from one another.

How different are they from each other? Have any videos?

 

[MarkThompson]

I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to pretend to speak for the Pope. If that were his intent today would not have been the first time the TLM has been celebrated at St. Peters in 40 years.

Actually, the TLM is frequently celebrated there. This was just the first time it has been celebrated at the Altar of the Chair – which is the second-most important altar in the basilica – since then.

 

[Theophorus]

I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to pretend to speak for the Pope. If that were his intent today would not have been the first time the TLM has been celebrated at St. Peters in 40 years.

The Holy Father speaks for himself in his many writings(try “spirit of the liturgy” for a start) where he speaks of organic development and a new liturgical movement. He also speaks of the paid and confusion rapid change caused in the aftermath of VII, something he is keen to avoid happening again. Benedict ever the Shepherd, doesn’t want to loose anymore sheep in this way. As others have pointed out there is at least one EF Mass said daily in st peters at the side altars.

 

[falcogreg]

You know, this was already tried once and failed miserably. More harm has been done by the changing of rites in the past 40 years than has possibly been done at any time in the church. Leave the TLM alone. If he wants to tinker with the other mess, go ahead. Otherwise, instead of trying to unite us, it will put an even bigger wedge in the divide.

 

[Warrenton]

Why not? The Eastern Rites have used a host of Liturgies and other Liturgical services throughout any given year. Why should the Roman Church have just one? I would be glad to see development happen with the Extraordinaria and the Ordinaria that they would be used side-by-side in every parish, and not exclusively from one another.