The Millennial Kingdom

[brb3]

The 1st Resurrection (Rev. 20:1-6) is described. Now, cross-reference to Paul’s [earlier] teaching on the Christian’s 1st Resurrection in Romans Chp. 6

What’s the take home message … Are we there yet ? Is this the Proof Text ?

 

[ryanoneil]

There are earthly and heavenly layers to the Apocalypse. That is certainly one of the layers of meaning. Keep reading chapters 7 and 8 of Romans. The historical context/layer is the martyrs were delivered from the slavery to sin but weren’t delivered from the slavery of corruption until they physically died (first death). After that, they could no longer submit to the flesh. Then they experienced the (first resurrection), which is going to the throne room in heaven. There they recieved their inheritance and waited for the whole material creation to be renewed (second resurrection) after the millenium.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in his great mercy gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you who by the power of God are safeguarded through faith, to a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the final time. (1 Pet 1:3-5)

 

[ryanoneil]

**Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death. For what the law, weakened by the flesh, was powerless to do, this God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live not according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (Rom 8:1-4)

Now since the children share in blood and flesh, he likewise shared in them, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who through fear of death had been subject to slavery all their life. (Heb 2:14-15)**

See that Christ did not become a sinner when he became man, but he did assume our mortal condition, which enabled him to die and defeat death and the devil forever (which is the chaining of Satan).

 

[ryanoneil]

**The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him. (Rom 8:16-17)

What will separate us from the love of Christ? Will anguish, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or the sword? As it is written: “For your sake we are being slain all the day; we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us. (Rom 8:35-37)**

Here are the martyrs who died but were not crushed by suffering. They conquered through it.

 

[ryanoneil]

John, to the seven churches in Asia: grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead and ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father, to him be glory and power forever (and ever). Amen (Rev 1:4-6)

This shows what was already a reality from the time of Christ’s death and resurrection. Christ is already reigning over his kingdom with His priests in the Church (in heaven and on earth). Rev 1 is from an earthly perspective The first fruits of the Spirit are given in life (Rom 8:23). This is our downpayment.

What was about to happen soon and what was near for the martyrs was the inheritance they would recieve in heaven, which is what the first resurrection is describing in Rev 20:4. It takes place in the Heavenly throne room and shows the heavenly perspective. It is showing the same reality and time period from two perspectives. One perspective from earth and the other from heaven. From heaven they wait for the end of the millenium and Christ’s return. That is when the children of God are revealed and creation is renewed.

I consider that the sufferings of this present time are as nothing compared with the glory to be revealed for us. For creation awaits with eager expectation the revelation of the children of God; for creation was made subject to futility, not of its own accord but because of the one who subjected it, in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now; and not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we also groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. (Rom 8:18-23)

 

[brb3]

There are earthly and heavenly layers to the Apocalypse. That is certainly one of the layers of meaning. Keep reading chapters 7 and 8 of Romans. The historical context/layer is the martyrs were delivered from the slavery to sin but weren’t delivered from the slavery of corruption until they physically died (first death). After that, they could no longer submit to the flesh. Then they experienced the (first resurrection), which is going to the throne room in heaven. There they recieved their inheritance and waited for the whole material creation to be renewed (second resurrection) after the millenium.

I don’t follow you. Here you say Earthly = physical … and heavenly layer = spiritual ? Then you add another historical layer … a time element. So now you are going 3-D.
But, the spirit / soul … is our 4th dimension.

I’m saying the 1st Resurrection in Romans 6 & Rev 20 … only pertains to the Christians. A rebirth … only of the spirit. We must wait til our physical deaths to obtain our 2nd Resurrection [of body].

Clarify your view of the dimensions for me.

 

[brb3]

[We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now; and not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we also groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. (Rom 8:18-23)**

Labor pains = physical pains. We already have the FIRSTFRUITS of the Spirit however … having already received/experienced our 1st Resurrection.

We [mind/spirits] await the 2nd Resurrection … to receive our new heavenly physical bodies. Those w/o pain, without disease, w/o aging, etc.

 

[ryanoneil]

I don’t follow you. Here you say Earthly = physical … and heavenly layer = spiritual ? Then you add another historical layer … a time element. So now you are going 3-D.
But, the spirit / soul … is our 4th dimension.

I’m saying the 1st Resurrection in Romans 6 & Rev 20 … only pertains to the Christians. A rebirth … only of the spirit. We must wait til our physical deaths to obtain our 2nd Resurrection [of body].

Labor pains = physical pains. We already have the FIRSTFRUITS of the Spirit however … having already received/experienced our 1st Resurrection.

We [mind/spirits] await the 2nd Resurrection … to receive our new heavenly physical bodies. Those w/o pain, without disease, w/o aging, etc.

Yes, both pertain to Christians but they don’t describe the same thing. Rom 6 is talking about baptism (first fruits) which is the first installment of Eph 1:13-14. This happens on earth and is definately spiritual. Rev 20:4 is talking about recieving the inheritance of heaven. In other words, when our soul actually goes to heaven. This is also spiritual. We don’t obtain our resurrected body at this time.

A good example of this can be seen in Rev 7
usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation7.htm

Verse 1-8 describes the people on earth who had to recieve the seal of Rom 6. Verses 9-17 describes those who already made it to heaven. They had already died and experienced their first resurrection. But they were still spiritual beings. They will all wait in heaven for the end of the thousand years which is the end of time.

The second resurrection happens when Christ returns at the end of time. That is when all corruptable creation is remade incorruptable. Our mortal flesh is resurrection along with the new heavens and new earth.

**If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his Spirit that dwells in you. (Rom 8:11)

for creation was made subject to futility, not of its own accord but because of the one who subjected it, in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now; and not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we also groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. (Rom 8:20-23)**

 

[ryanoneil]

I don’t follow you. Here you say Earthly = physical … and heavenly layer = spiritual ? Then you add another historical layer … a time element. So now you are going 3-D.
But, the spirit / soul … is our 4th dimension.

I’m saying the 1st Resurrection in Romans 6 & Rev 20 … only pertains to the Christians. A rebirth … only of the spirit. We must wait til our physical deaths to obtain our 2nd Resurrection [of body].

Clarify your view of the dimensions for me.

The New Covenant age started with Advent of Christ but there was 40 years of covenantal transition (one generation). The Old Covenant age ended with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.

Jesus left the temple area and was going away, when his disciples approached him to point out the temple buildings. He said to them in reply, “You see all these things, do you not? Amen, I say to you, there will not be left here a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down.” As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, 3 the disciples approached him privately and said, “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Mt 24:1-3)

The book of Revelation describes this event using apocalyptic language. The historical layer/ time element is the 3.5 years of the tribulation. This is the time of the Jewish-Roman war and the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. The book is not chronological. Some people say (3.5 + 3.5 = 7 years) but that is wrong. 3.5 years show the story from the perspective of heaven. Then it shows the same 3.5 years from the perspective of what is happening on earth.

Rev 20 describes the Church age that follows. 10 is symblic for completion. the trinity of completion (10 x 10 x 10) is symbolic for the entire Church age which goes until the end of time. At the end of the Church age is our tribulation. After this comes judgment and the last day gives way to eternity and the new heavens and earth.

 

[brb3]

Lets look at other scripture re: the Kingdom.

Matt. 3:2 “Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.”
Matt. 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the Kingdom of God HAS COME UPON YOU."
Luke 17:20 " The Kingdom of God IS NOT COMING WITH SIGNS to be observed; nor will they say, ‘Lo, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the Kingdom of God IS IN THE MIDST OF YOU."
John 3:5 Jesus answered , “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he CANNOT ENTER THE KINGDOM of God.”
Acts 1:6-8 …“Lord, will you at this time restore the KINGDOM to Israel?” He said to them, “Its is not for you to know the times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority. But YOU SHALL RECEIVE POWER [kingdom power … right?] when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;” …

… and, within 10 days came Pentecost, and the Kingdom arrived, …the Church was born, and those reborn into Christ its head, are CURRENTLY in the Kingdom. :yup:

 

[ryanoneil]

I agree we are currently in the kingdom. We are also in the millenium (saints in heaven and on earth).

 

[NHInsider]

I don’t believe it is consistent with Catholic doctrine to speak of a “first” and “second” resurrection. There is one body, and one bodily resurrection. The soul is not mortal and so does not “die” at the death of the body, and so cannot be said to have been resurrected. At bodily death our souls pass into eternity - to hell, to heaven or to purgatory. When the Lord returns, our bodies will rise and be rejoined to our souls, and then experience Final Judgment.

I would be surprised and interested to know of any official Catholic reference to a “first” and “second” resurrection.

 

[brb3]

I agree we are currently in the kingdom. We are also in the millenium (saints in heaven and on earth).

Beyond dispute ! Romans Chp. 6 … is the Proof Text, that the Apostles believed this the case.

So, why do Catholics say they are Amillennial ? We are Kingdom creations, from our Baptisms In Christ.

 

[ryanoneil]

Beyond dispute ! Romans Chp. 6 … is the Proof Text, that the Apostles believed this the case.

So, why do Catholics say they are Amillennial ? We are Kingdom creations, from our Baptisms In Christ.

What do you think Amillennial means?

Amillennialism inerprets Rev 20 as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church (not as an earthly golden age of the future).

 

[ryanoneil]

I don’t believe it is consistent with Catholic doctrine to speak of a “first” and “second” resurrection. There is one body, and one bodily resurrection. The soul is not mortal and so does not “die” at the death of the body, and so cannot be said to have been resurrected. At bodily death our souls pass into eternity - to hell, to heaven or to purgatory. When the Lord returns, our bodies will rise and be rejoined to our souls, and then experience Final Judgment.

I would be surprised and interested to know of any official Catholic reference to a “first” and “second” resurrection.

I don’t know of any official Catholic reference but CCC 1002-1004 comes close. We already truly participate in the heavenly life through Baptism.

**You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; (Col 2:12-13)

If then you were raised with Christ, seek what is above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Think of what is above, not of what is on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. (Col 3:1-3)**

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. (Eph 2:4-7)

Using apocalyptic language, the first resurrection is symbolic for the martyrs actually rising up to heaven after they die, where they are seated with Christ.