The Million-Dollar Question

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The Million-Dollar Question

Imagine that you are the contestant on a popular TV game show. The host says to you:

“’I’m going to read a story to you that is based upon prophecies contained in the Hebrew Scriptures. Then I will ask you one question about that story. If you get the answer right, you win one million dollars. Here is the story:

There will come a man from the tribe of Judah and the House of David.1 He will come into this world by way of a special birth (possibly being born of a virgin) 2, and he will be born in the town of Bethlehem.3 Although he will be born in time, he will also be timeless and eternal, 4 having both a human and a divine nature. 5 Thus, not only will he be a son of David but he will also be David’s Lord. 6 He will be not only a king but also a priest, 7 and a messenger will announce his arrival. 8 This man will work a ministry of miracles 9 and will visit the Second Temple with authority. 10

Nevertheless, he will be rejected by his own people who do not believe him, 11 and even his own friends, with whom he shares his bread, will betray him (possibly for 30 pieces of silver). 12 Despised and rejected, weak and thirsty, his hands and feet will be pierced. During his death, people will think he is forsaken by God, and all who see him will mock him, wagging their heads and saying, ‘He trusted in God; let God deliver him and rescue him.’ 13

Some who stare at him will divide and cast lots for his garments. 14 Yet in all of this, he “bears our griefs and carries our sorrows” even though we think he is cursed by God. He was wounded for out transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, and “upon him the chastisement that made us whole and by his stripes we are healed.” Judged and killed for the transgressions of others, God has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 15

Having borne the penalty for mankind’s transgressions, this sin-bearer will be buried in a rich man’s grave. 16 Yet after this, he will rise from the dead, 17 and blessing all nations, he will be the light and salvation of the Gentiles so that now even the non-Jew will worship the God of Israel because of him. 18 Establishing an everlasting kingdom, with worldwide impact, there will be no end to his government. 19

All of these things must happen before the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (in AD 70). 20

For one million dollars, who is this story about?

What is your final answer?
​
 
SteveVH said:
:confused:
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That would be the Jewish interpretation of the man who is despised by the world and bears the scars of all the other nations. This reading is based on the context of the preceding verses in Isaiah especially, which are clearly alluding to Jacob (i.e. Israel) in the masculine singular. One of the several Christian rebuttals is that Jesus, the Messiah, symbolizes the new Israel. The ongoing debate between Jewish and Christian scholars about such passages is in itself a fascinating read.
 
meltzerboy said:
That would be the Jewish interpretation of the man who is despised by the world and bears the scars of all the other nations. This reading is based on the context of the preceding verses in Isaiah especially, which are clearly alluding to Jacob (i.e. Israel) in the masculine singular. One of the several Christian rebuttals is that Jesus, the Messiah, symbolizes the new Israel. The ongoing debate between Jewish and Christian scholars about such passages is in itself a fascinating read.
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Okay, thanks.
 
Footnotes:
  1. Gen 49:10, 2 Sam 7:12
  2. Gen 3:15, Isa 7:14
  3. Mic 5:2
  4. Mic 5:2
  5. Isa 9:6-6, Ps 45, Ps 110, Dan 7, Zec. 11
  6. Ps 110
  7. Ps 110, Zec 6:12-13
  8. Isa 40:3, Mal 3:1
  9. Isa 35:5-7, 49:6-7, 61:1-3
  10. Mal 3:1, Hag 2:6-9
  11. Ps 118:22, Isa 49:4, 53:3
  12. Zec 13:6, 11:12-13, Ps 55:12-14, Ps 41:9
  13. Ps 22:1-18
  14. Dan 9:26, Isa 53
  15. Isa 53:9
  16. Ps 2:7, Ps 16:9-11, Ps 17:15, Isa 53
  17. Gen 12:3, 22:18, Isa 42:6, 49:6, Isa 52, Mal 1:11
  18. Ps 22, Isa 9, Dan 7:13-14
  19. Dan 9:24-27
 
meltzerboy said:
That would be the Jewish interpretation of the man who is despised by the world and bears the scars of all the other nations. This reading is based on the context of the preceding verses in Isaiah especially, which are clearly alluding to Jacob (i.e. Israel) in the masculine singular. One of the several Christian rebuttals is that Jesus, the Messiah, symbolizes the new Israel. The ongoing debate between Jewish and Christian scholars about such passages is in itself a fascinating read.
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According to one source,

Isaiah 53 was widely recognized as messianic in both Christian and traditional Jewish circles and is one of the clearest messianic passages having references to Jesus. “Undoubtedly, this is the summit of OT prophetic literature. Few passages can rival it for clarity on the suffering, death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah.” (Kaiser, 178) The common response today is that the servant in this passage does not mean a single individual but rather “Israel” (aka, the “national interpretation”). Yet, it is certainly relevant to know that this interpretation simply did not exist even in Jewish sources until the Middle Ages:

Interestingly, the national interpretation" is not found once in the Talmuds, the Targums, or the midrashim (in other words, not once in all the classical, foundational, authortitative Jewish writings). In fact it is not found in any traditional Jewish source until the time of Rashi, who lived in the eleventh century C.E. That is saying something! For almost one thousand years after the birth of Yeshua, not one rabbi, not one Talmudic teacher, not one Jewish sage, left us with an interpretation showing that Isaiah 53 should be interpreted with reference to the nation of Israel…despite the fact that these verses from Isaiah are quoted in the New Testament and are often used in Jewish-Christian debate." (Brown, 41)​
 
Randy_Carson said:
The Million-Dollar Question

Imagine that you are the contestant on a popular TV game show. The host says to you:

“’I’m going to read a story to you that is based upon prophecies contained in the Hebrew Scriptures. Then I will ask you one question about that story. If you get the answer right, you win one million dollars. Here is the story:

There will come a man from the tribe of Judah and the House of David.1 He will come into this world by way of a special birth (possibly being born of a virgin) 2, and he will be born in the town of Bethlehem.3 Although he will be born in time, he will also be timeless and eternal, 4 having both a human and a divine nature. 5 Thus, not only will he be a son of David but he will also be David’s Lord. 6 He will be not only a king but also a priest, 7 and a messenger will announce his arrival. 8 This man will work a ministry of miracles 9 and will visit the Second Temple with authority. 10

Nevertheless, he will be rejected by his own people who do not believe him, 11 and even his own friends, with whom he shares his bread, will betray him (possibly for 30 pieces of silver). 12 Despised and rejected, weak and thirsty, his hands and feet will be pierced. During his death, people will think he is forsaken by God, and all who see him will mock him, wagging their heads and saying, ‘He trusted in God; let God deliver him and rescue him.’ 13

Some who stare at him will divide and cast lots for his garments. 14 Yet in all of this, he “bears our griefs and carries our sorrows” even though we think he is cursed by God. He was wounded for out transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, and “upon him the chastisement that made us whole and by his stripes we are healed.” Judged and killed for the transgressions of others, God has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 15

Having borne the penalty for mankind’s transgressions, this sin-bearer will be buried in a rich man’s grave. 16 Yet after this, he will rise from the dead, 17 and blessing all nations, he will be the light and salvation of the Gentiles so that now even the non-Jew will worship the God of Israel because of him. 18 Establishing an everlasting kingdom, with worldwide impact, there will be no end to his government. 19

All of these things must happen before the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (in AD 70). 20

For one million dollars, who is this story about?

What is your final answer?
​
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Jesus Christ.
 
I wonder what the point of threads like this is?

Those who take the New Testament as scripture/reportage will say one thing and those who don’t take the New Testament as scripture/reportage will say another.

It’s just a kind of ritual really.
 
Kaninchen said:
I wonder what the point of threads like this is?

Those who take the New Testament as scripture/reportage will say one thing and those who don’t take the New Testament as scripture/reportage will say another.

It’s just a kind of ritual really.
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It’s just the Word of God really.

http://imageserver.moviepilot.com/t...d-be05-e88d982d0e27.webp?width=640&height=264

Isaiah 53

Who has believed what we have heard?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,
and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,
so he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
9 And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise him;
he has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin,
he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand;
11 he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous;
and he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
meltzerboy said:
That would be the Jewish interpretation of the man who is despised by the world and bears the scars of all the other nations. This reading is based on the context of the preceding verses in Isaiah especially, which are clearly alluding to Jacob (i.e. Israel) in the masculine singular. One of the several Christian rebuttals is that Jesus, the Messiah, symbolizes the new Israel. The ongoing debate between Jewish and Christian scholars about such passages is in itself a fascinating read.
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Well stated - Thanks - Joe Kelley
 
Randy_Carson said:
The Million-Dollar Question

…

Establishing an everlasting kingdom, with worldwide impact, there will be no end to his government. 19

All of these things must happen before the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (in AD 70). 20
Click to expand...
Well, it obviously can’t be Jesus, since His kingdom did not have a “worldwide impact” before 70 CE. His religion didn’t reach Australia until eighteen centuries later.

As to “no end to His government”, you will have to wait a very long time to confirm that one.

And you missed out the ones about an era of world peace (Isaiah 2:4), gathering all the Jews back into Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6) and rebuilding the Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28), all of which we are still waiting for.

So, whoever it was, it wasn’t Jesus.

rossum
 
rossum said:
Well, it obviously can’t be Jesus, since His kingdom did not have a “worldwide impact” before 70 CE. His religion didn’t reach Australia until eighteen centuries later.
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Did Jesus establish a “kingdom” before 70 CE that has had worldwide impact? What does “establish” mean?

es·tab·lish
iˈstabliSH/Submit
verb
  1. set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.
    “the British established a rich trade with Portugal”
    synonyms: set up, start, initiate, institute, form, found, create, inaugurate; initiate or bring about
    “the two countries established diplomatic relations”
  2. achieve permanent acceptance or recognition for.
:yup:
As to “no end to His government”, you will have to wait a very long time to confirm that one.
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But there has been no end SO FAR.

:yup:
And you missed out the ones about an era of world peace (Isaiah 2:4), gathering all the Jews back into Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6) and rebuilding the Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28), all of which we are still waiting for.
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Israel was made a state in 1947. Jews from all over the world, especially France, are leaving their current homes and returning to Israel. Plans for rebuilding the temple are underway.

But those are YOUR passages, and not the ones included in MY post.

:yup:
So, whoever it was, it wasn’t Jesus.
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rossum
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:nope:

Wrong answer. Sorry, you don’t win the million, but thanks for being on the show.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Did Jesus establish a “kingdom” before 70 CE that has had worldwide impact? What does “establish” mean?

es·tab·lish
iˈstabliSH/Submit
verb
  1. set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.
    “the British established a rich trade with Portugal”
    synonyms: set up, start, initiate, institute, form, found, create, inaugurate; initiate or bring about
    “the two countries established diplomatic relations”
  2. achieve permanent acceptance or recognition for.
Click to expand...
I’ll go with definition two. The Roman Empire did not recognise Christianity until the time of Constantine. Recognition was not achieved before 70 CE.
But there has been no end SO FAR.
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Agreed. So the correct answer is, “We don’t know yet.”
Israel was made a state in 1947. Jews from all over the world, especially France, are leaving their current homes and returning to Israel.
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And there are still a great many Jews who do not live in Israel. The correct answer is “No”.

rossum
 
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