The misogynistic Holy Catholic Church?

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BMorel

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I am having a hard time with some people that like to bring up the whole “He man woman hater thing.” They cite examples like 1 Timothy 2:11. How do I counter their claims especially when there are things like no women can be ordained to back up their claims.
 
St. Paul was speaking for himself–what he would allow. This is not a doctrine, but a discipline that other bishops did not/do not see as necessary. There are many women teachers in the Church. So, this argument is bogus.

The priesthood is a ministry that Christ himself founded. He appointed only men as Apostles/bishops and they in turn appointed presbyters/priests and deacons to aid them in their ministry. The Church has simply said that it does not have the authority to appoint women in the ordained ministries since Christ saw fit to appoint only men. No one has the “right” to be a priest. It is a privilege given to a few who prove worthy. It is reserved to men as child-bearing is reserved to women–as a means of serving the whole family of God.

As to authority, everyone has some authority of some kind. What authority really means is responsibility–who is to be held accountable for decisions and actions taken on behalf of others. Mothers have great authority over their children, as do fathers. Teachers have authority over the children they teach while they are subject to the principal and the principal to the school board and they to the parents. In the Church authority is a position of service and responsibility not of “power”. The pope is the “servant of the servants of God”. Bishops, priests and deacons serve their dioceses. This is a natural submission to authority not an imposed one.
 
BMorel said:
I am having a hard time with some people that like to bring up the whole “He man woman hater thing.” They cite examples like 1 Timothy 2:11. How do I counter their claims especially when there are things like no women can be ordained to back up their claims.
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Counter with Mary and her contribution to the Church. Or Joan of Arc. or Therese of Lisieux, or St Clare of Assisi, or Terese of Avila, or Kateri Tekakwitha, or Katherine Drexel, or Mother Teresa of Calcutta, or… get the drift?

It is what we do with the call not what gender we were born. The Little Flower is a Doctor of the Church, never ordained, didn’t even make it to 30 years. But yet we speak of her in the same breath as Thomas Aquinas and Augustine. When your eyes are truly open to what the Catholic Church is you won’t believe what you see.
 
@ Della, thanks, very informative.
@Son, I have done that. One conversation went exacly like this…

Them: “The church is under attack because it has covered up the raping of children for ages and considers the ordination of women to be worse than priests abusing children.”

Me: “The church is under attack because of militant secularism. Was there abuse? Yes, we all know that, but the actions of the few do not reflect the feelings of the many. As to the ordination of women, it can’t happen. It’s in our faith, but that doesn’t make it a misogynistic boys club.”

Them: “Actually that’s exactly what it does.”

Me: “Misogyny is defined as a hatred of women. Our church does not hate women, we simply don’t ordain them. We regard Mary as the highest of the saints, definately not the action of a group of women haters…”

Them: “Mary is the highest of saints not so much because she gave birth to the son of God, but because she was a virgin when she did it. Everything you need to know about the Catholic attitude toward women comes from this one absurd, medieval myth…”

It’s a frustrating conversation to say the least. I don’t want to sway anyone, but I feel ill equiped to defend my own church…:mad:
 
BMorel said:
@ Della, thanks, very informative.
@Son, I have done that. One conversation went exacly like this…

Them: “The church is under attack because it has covered up the raping of children for ages and considers the ordination of women to be worse than priests abusing children.”

Me: “The church is under attack because of militant secularism. Was there abuse? Yes, we all know that, but the actions of the few do not reflect the feelings of the many. As to the ordination of women, it can’t happen. It’s in our faith, but that doesn’t make it a misogynistic boys club.”

Them: “Actually that’s exactly what it does.”

Me: “Misogyny is defined as a hatred of women. Our church does not hate women, we simply don’t ordain them. We regard Mary as the highest of the saints, definately not the action of a group of women haters…”

Them: “Mary is the highest of saints not so much because she gave birth to the son of God, but because she was a virgin when she did it. Everything you need to know about the Catholic attitude toward women comes from this one absurd, medieval myth…”

It’s a frustrating conversation to say the least. I don’t want to sway anyone, but I feel ill equiped to defend my own church…:mad:
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Well you are on the right forum to figure this stuff out. I highly recommend the vids, text, and audio files that the wonderful folks here at Catholic Answers offer from their homepage.

Sometimes it takes you just living life as a Catholic to defend. Sometimes no words are necessary.
 
And we have to acknowledge that sometimes no words will do. Some people have an unreasonable hatred for the Church that no amount of evidence or sound reasoning can defeat. For them, any stick handy will do to beat the Church. Even us saying that, is one they use, trying to say that we have no defense therefore, our coming to the Church’s defense is but a sign that the Church is false. Crazy, I know, but then circular reasoning is crazy. There are some people who, in effect, put their fingers in their ears and say, “La, la, la, la, la…” no matter what you say. You have to decide if the battle is worth it–if you should simply “shake the dust off your feet” and move on because the other person is not disposed to hear your side of the argument.
 
Lots of good advice, and I thank you all for your particpation! It would seem that we are definately in for the fight of our lives in the coming years. I just want to be prepared.

God bless!
 
Women have far more freedom under the Catholic Church than other ideologies. A case can indeed be made for Men being slaves to women as Catholic Men honor, provide for, and protect their Catholic women to the death.

Remember the Titanic? “Women and Children first!” Men are apparently ‘Disposable.’

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A

Ask* them* just why be it so that Secularism or Feminism is so demonstrably Misandric?

Ask why you as a soldier, should put your life on the line for Radical male hating Feminists?
 
Everyone is born without sin.

Always felt sorry for Joseph, when I think of the story of Mary
 
BMorel said:
things like no women can be ordained to back up their claims.
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That a woman cannot be ordained does not back up claims of misogyny in the Church. It would be like saying those who believe men cannot gestate babies are misandrists. The observation of qualitative differences in the genders is not a form of hatred. Claimants to the contrary are misinformed, ignorant, or immature.
 
As for women and as for men - **Equal **does not mean Identical!!

Sheeeesh! I wish that those that are trying sooooo very hard to perpetrate the lies of ‘the Oppressive Patriarchy’ (horrors!!) :rolleyes: would just learn to get. .a. grip.

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=3S7v4fuguHI

Pssssssst… the* technical* term for these people that love to claim ‘victim status’ for purposes of procuring extra benefits is Feminists. :cool: Pass it on.

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=dddgkEg2XSA&feature=fvwp&NR=1

Unless one is a Feminist they are a Bigot! :rolleyes:
 
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