The missing Gift the Charismatics forget

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yian027

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I’ve been reading a lot about the Catholic Charismatics, since I did not no much about them. In everything I read I never here them mention what I think is one of the greatest gifts that the Holy Spirit can give and one the Fathers of the Church speak about often which is the gift of tears. How come? Is it more of a personal gift alone than in a prayer group setting?
 
Certain prayer groups can present particular distortions which need to be corrected/purified. But we don’t readily condemn the entire group or movement on account of it. It is often just something that needs to be addressed and adjusted.

A more frequently mentioned one is that when people in such groups speak in tongues, (there is supposed to be an interpreter present to interpret what those speaking in toungues are saying … otherwise, who knows what they’re talking about ? 🙂 )

But oftentimes, there is no interpreter present.

Saint Padre Pio had ,as the OP says, the “gift of tears”, but we should equally acknowledge that many people weep on the inside with tears that, for the most part, remain totally undetected by exterior obsevation.

It isn’t what people call “modern” , but there is a great page in St. Thomas A Kempis’ IMITATION OF CHRIST entitled *Of Compunction Of Heart *that can be read at this link. - if someone hasn’t had a chance to read it yet. It agrees with a lot of what the OP is saying , but was published a good 5½ centuries before the appearance of “Catholic Charismatics.”

All that being said, if we’re going to examine words: *Catholic Charismatics *have been around since the time the events first recorded in The Acts of The Apostles transpired.

🙂
 
“Certain prayer groups can present particular distortions which need to be corrected/purified. But we don’t readily condemn the entire group or movement on account of it. It is often just something that needs to be addressed and adjusted.”

I"m not sure what your talking about or what your bringing up here NeedImprovement? I was just wondering since there is an unbroken long history especially in the east of the gift on tears, which goes back before pentecost to Mary Magdalen and to king David. Why when I hear the charismatics talk about gifts they never mention this one.

Since there prayer groups sound like a very emotional experience I would figure they experience this a lot and wanted to hear if it ever feels like how the saints have described it.
 
The gift of tears, as you mentioned, is evidenced in other scriptures like the psalms and it does not need a body of believers to be experienced. Many people, charismatics or not, have experienced this gift.

The gifts of the spirit (like the charismatic gifts in I Cor) are different and are to be used in relationship to a body. How to properly use them in that body is what Paul is addressing.

Does that help?
 
yian027 said:
… I"m not sure what your talking about or what your bringing up here NeedImprovement? I was just wondering since there is an unbroken long history especially in the east of the gift on tears, which goes back before pentecost to Mary Magdalen and to king David. Why when I hear the charismatics talk about gifts they never mention this one.

Since there prayer groups sound like a very emotional experience I would figure they experience this a lot and wanted to hear if it ever feels like how the saints have described it.
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Well that’s a little clearer for me too now yian027. Thanks.

You probably already know this - Our basics in Catholicism (I’m open to correction) start with 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit :

Wisdom
Understanding
Counsel
Knowledge
Fortitude
Piety
Fear of the Lord

I’m probably the wrong one to be asking much further than this because I think what you’re referring to is a private charism . There has been some speculative comparison of the popularity of The Gift of Tears in the East to the popularity to the Gift of Tongues in the West (which I was hinting at but don’t necessarily agree with).

I gave the charismatic prayer group in my own parish an honest effort when invited by friends but it wasn’t really my cup of tea - I had a particular issue with the group see my username :)], but could also see a lot of good that they were accomplishing at the same time. So I am probably the least knowledgeable about in-depth Catholic Charismatic history and the like.

I don’t know exactly where you’ve been
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yian027:
“…reading a lot about the Catholic Charismatics…”
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. neither can I tell for sure yet whether you might further be interested in the gift of tears as it applies to all Catholicism, or only if you want solely that narrow margin which refers to Catholic Charismatic circles; but it would appear to be the latter.

Hope you find what you’re looking for.

God Bless.
For the rest if us: Searching for Catholic reference to the gift of tears only in Charismatic circles could render very little results. Broaden the scope to include the entire Catholic Church, and results become more plentiful. As mentioned earlier, if this is a subject of interest which one might wish to research, try keying on the word “compunction”.

The gift of tears and prayers for this gift do exist in the Catholic Church; several examples:

This first one, according to this blog , comes from the 1962 Roman Missal :

Almighty and most merciful God, who, to quench the thirst of thy people,
did draw a fountain of living water out of a rock,
draw from our stony hearts tears of compunction,
that we may be able to mourn for our sins
and win forgiveness for them by your mercy.
Through Jesus Christ…

The second is the Hail Mary to Our Lady of Sorrows, composed by St. Bonaventure ( - a prayer I like to pray myself ). The Hail Mary has been posted first so you can compare them :

Hail Mary

Hail Mary,full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen

Hail Mary to The Sorrowful Mother

Hail, Mary, full of sorrows,
the Crucified is with thee.
Tearful art thou amongst women,
and tearful is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of the Crucified,
give tears to us, crucifiers of thy Son, now,
and at the hour of our death. Amen

composed by St. Bonaventure.

More than once, there is reference in the Stabat Mater Dolorosa
again, to our Blessed Mother

… By the cross with thee to stay,
There with thee to weep and pray,
Is all I ask of thee to give.

This webpage written by Raymond Lloyd Richmond, Ph.D gives us (handily) three accounts of compunction - one right after the other described in the words of St Leo The Great, St. Theresa of Avila, St. Catherine of Genoa . (** Please note you have to scroll about 3/4 of the way down the page to hit it).

Referring again to our interior person, as in my first post, I would maintain the tears, taken by themselves , mean very little (and are similar to tongues without an interpreter) . The tears are actually an exterior manifestation of what is going on, on the inside. So the one with the best perspective is always the one to whom the Gift of Tears is given.
Father John Hardon:
COMPUNCTION : A momentary sorrow or regret for having done, or contemplated doing, something wrong. It may also be a slight feeling of remorse, without implying either complete repentance or a firm resolve not to do the same wrong thing again. (Etym. Latin compunctio, remorse, the sting of conscience; from compungere, to prick.)
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I realize that the East may have broader interpretation of the gift of tears. Similarly, the west agrees, I’m thinking of St. Thomas Aquinas who said he would much rather be able to experience compunction than to try and describe it.

It being a mystical gift, we might be able to describe some of the workings, but not be able to explain them. As our Blessed Lord himself said in John 3:8 :

“The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

🙂
 
There is some absolutely awesome material out there from the Eastern Church on the Gift of Tears.
-St. Isaac of Nineveh
-Saint John Chrysostom
-Saint John Climacus

Some quotes (sources are as quoted on a site I visited and which I need to double check so no links yet) – if I get a chance. So call them purported for the moment or maybe someone else can check them (I’ve done way too much posting lately) , but these are definitely worth a read. What I do find remarkable though, thanks to the OP’s question ,is that I had to go backwards in time to find these jewels …

St. Isaac of Nineveh

The Fruits of the Inner Man begin only with the Shedding of Tears. When you reach the place of Tears, then know that your Spirit has come out from the Prison of this World and has set its foot upon the path that leads towards the New Age. Your Spirit begins at this moment to breathe the wonderful air which is there, and it starts to Shed Tears. The moment for the Birth of the Spiritual Child is now at hand, and the Travail of Childbirth becomes intense. Grace, the common Mother of us all, makes haste to give birth Mystically to the Soul, God’s image, bringing it forth into the Light of the Age to come. And when the time for the birth has arrived, the Intellect begins to Sense something of the things of that Other World – as a Faint Perfume, or as the Breath of Life which a Newborn Child receives into its bodily frame. But we are not accustomed to such an experience and, finding it hard to endure, our Body is suddenly overcome by a Weeping mingled with Joy.

Saint John Climacus from The Ladder of Divine Ascent:

"Mourning according to God is Sadness of Soul and the disposition of a Sorrowing Heart, which ever madly seeks that for which it thirsts . . . Mourning is a Golden Spur in a Soul which is stripped of all Attachment and of all Ties . . . Keep a firm hold of the Blessed Gladdening Sorrow of Holy Compunction, and do not stop working at it until it raises you high above the Things of this World, and presents you Pure to Christ . . . The Fruit of Spurious Compunction is Self-Esteem, and the Fruit of Praiseworthy Compunction is Consolation . . . When I consider the actual Nature of Compunction, I am amazed at how that which is called Mourning and Grief should contain Joy and Gladness interwoven within it, like Honey in the comb.

Saint John Chrysostom :

For much as after a Violent Burst of Rain , there is a clear open sky; so likewise when Tears are pouring down, a Calm arises, and Serenity, and the Darkness that ensues on our Sins quite disappears (Homily 6 on the Gospel according to Matthew)

From Liturgy of the Hours Book IV page. 413 Letter to Proba by Saint Augustine:

“Excessive talking should be kept out of Prayer but that does not mean that one should not spend much time in Prayer so long as a Fervent Attitude continues to accompany his Prayer. To talk at length in Prayer is to perform a necessary action with an excess of words. To spend much time in Prayer is to knock with a persistent and Holy Fervor at the door to the One Whom we beseech. This task is generally accomplished more through Sighs then Words, more through Weeping than Speech. He “Places our Tears in His Sight”, and “Our Sighs are not hidden from Him”, for He has established all things through His Word and does not seek Human Words”.
@yian027 :I also found this CAF thread from a little more than 7 years ago. And it reminded me, when I saw how many were saying they received the Gift of Tears during the celebration of the Holy Eucharist, that this also happens to me - a minimum of 2 times a week, attending Mass daily. I never thought about it too much in those terms though. But I always keep a good supply of kleenex on hand - even check to make sure I have some before going to Mass each day. I couldn’t give you more than a one sentence description of what happens though. When I come out of it, I simply realize that I was much closer to God (intimately so) than I usually am, and I thank Him for it.

I can tell you that regarding exactly when it happens, the moment varies, sometimes during the celebration, sometimes just a moment before Holy Communion and more frequently upon reception of Holy Communion. It just doesn’t seem to be the right time to be focusing on a “gift” - when I have God himself right there with me - in person.
 
Tears are often manifested by those who are in the presence of God and realize their own sense of sinfulness or the sinful nature of society and the Church. Often there are also tears of joy when we realize that we are forgiven and that God has accepted us as his children and cares so very much for us. The ability to cry is so beautiful and so needed. It can be easy to cry during a sad movie or other events but somehow we have often forgotten how to “feel” when we encounter the presence of God. May our holy Mother, the saints, and our guardian angels pray for us and help us to remain tender and broken in the presence of God and His Holy Spirit.
 
Wow needsimprovement and everyone else thanks for so much info, just got off work and found all your posts. You guy’s nailed it for me. Its a private charism got it thanx so much guy’s. I’m really enjoying this forum the two weeks I been on so much info I’ve recieved!
 
yian027 said:
I read I never here them mention what I think is one of the greatest gifts that the Holy Spirit can give and one the Fathers of the Church speak about often which is the gift of tears. How come? Is it more of a personal gift alone than in a prayer group setting?
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I think you are right, that the charismatic gifts as generally described in the new testament are to be exercised in an a ecclesial setting, for the purpose of building up the Church. I don’t think the writers are excluding more personal experiences of the Holy Spirit, but rather are intent on describing how the Holy Spirit works through small groups of Christians for the good of the Church.
 
The gift of tears could also be considered part of the gift of intercession–to be able to be emotional for other people and feel their burden is a big part of being an intercessor
 
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