The Missing Passover

[Ben_Masada]

The Missing Passover

We are starting Passover here in Israel. But since the wheels of the Truth cannot stop rolling, I want to bring to your attention the Passover of the year 30 CE. It was supposed to be the last one that Jesus would partake of, and he missed it.

According to John 19:31, that Sabbath was a solemn Sabbath, which is what we call in Hebrew a Shabbaton. That’s when a festival falls on the Sabbath. The KJV brings: “For that Sabbath day was a high day.”

That Sabbath was the 14th of the month of Nissan; the first day of Passover. The beginning of it is celebrated with the Passover Supper at the evening of the previous day, being that year on Friday. That’s what we call the Seder Meal.

In the year 30 CE, the Passover Supper was held on the evening of that Friday. No wonder, everyone somehow connected with the events taking place on the Calvary that day, had to leave it in a hurry to prepare themselves and their houses for the Passover Supper.

Jesus missed that Passover Supper because he was on the cross, and soon afterwards, in the tomb. But then again, how to understand that he celebrated his Passover Supper on the evening of Thursday, which was the 13th of Nissan? He didn’t. In Israel, no Jew would celebrate Passover in a different day alone or in a small group when everyone else would be doing it next day.

This discrepancy is perhaps due to the fact that the gospel writer, writing somehwere in the world, and realizing that the Jews in the Diaspora would celebrate every festival in two days, thought he could have Jesus celebrate the Passover Supper on the 13 of Nissan. It would have worked if Jesus was a Diaspora Jew; but in Israel there is no such a thing.

There is an option in Judaism to celebrate the Passover later, even a month later, if the person was not for some reason ready for it; but NEVER before. It means that, definitely, Jesus missed that Passover celebration, because his reported “Last Supper” did not have anything to do with the Passover Supper.

The gospel writer had either no idea what he was writing about or simply thought we would never find out about his blunder.

Ben

 

[ralphinal]

I wish you could pass along your historical knowledge without being so condescending and anti-Christian. Anyway, if you study the facts of the case, Jesus’s Last Supper was in the Essene area of Jerusalem, and the Essene’s kept a different calender, causing them to be two days ahead of the rest of the Jews in everything.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I wish you could pass along your historical knowledge without being so condescending and anti-Christian. Anyway, if you study the facts of the case, Jesus’s Last Supper was in the Essene area of Jerusalem, and the Essene’s kept a different calender, causing them to be two days ahead of the rest of the Jews in everything.

**That’s all Jews need now, is for Gentiles to tell them about Jewish behaviour, laws and customs. The Essenes were even more strict than regular Jews. Nice try though. It means you are trying to defend your church.

Ben: **

 

[kalt]

The Missing Passover

We are starting Passover here in Israel. But since the wheels of the Truth cannot stop rolling, I want to bring to your attention the Passover of the year 30 CE. It was supposed to be the last one that Jesus would partake of, and he missed it.

According to John 19:31, that Sabbath was a solemn Sabbath, which is what we call in Hebrew a Shabbaton. That’s when a festival falls on the Sabbath. The KJV brings: “For that Sabbath day was a high day.”

That Sabbath was the 14th of the month of Nissan; the first day of Passover. The beginning of it is celebrated with the Passover Supper at the evening of the previous day, being that year on Friday. That’s what we call the Seder Meal.

In the year 30 CE, the Passover Supper was held on the evening of that Friday. No wonder, everyone somehow connected with the events taking place on the Calvary that day, had to leave it in a hurry to prepare themselves and their houses for the Passover Supper.

Jesus missed that Passover Supper because he was on the cross, and soon afterwards, in the tomb. But then again, how to understand that he celebrated his Passover Supper on the evening of Thursday, which was the 13th of Nissan? He didn’t. In Israel, no Jew would celebrate Passover in a different day alone or in a small group when everyone else would be doing it next day.

This discrepancy is perhaps due to the fact that the gospel writer, writing somehwere in the world, and realizing that the Jews in the Diaspora would celebrate every festival in two days, thought he could have Jesus celebrate the Passover Supper on the 13 of Nissan. It would have worked if Jesus was a Diaspora Jew; but in Israel there is no such a thing.

There is an option in Judaism to celebrate the Passover later, even a month later, if the person was not for some reason ready for it; but NEVER before. It means that, definitely, Jesus missed that Passover celebration, because his reported “Last Supper” did not have anything to do with the Passover Supper.

The gospel writer had either no idea what he was writing about or simply thought we would never find out about his blunder.

Ben

Jesus was the paschal lamb.

I don’t pretend to know Judaism well, but still I’m having trouble finding your point. What is the purpose of your post?

 

[Catholic90]

Jesus was the paschal lamb.

I don’t pretend to know Judaism well, but still I’m having trouble finding your point. What is the purpose of your post?

He has none. He just likes to stir up trouble.

 

[LilyM]

**That’s all Jews need now, is for Gentiles to tell them about Jewish behaviour, laws and customs. The Essenes were even more strict than regular Jews. Nice try though. It means you are trying to defend your church.

Ben: **

You may know Jewish behaviour, laws and customs, but you DON’T know that Christ was crucified in 30 AD, which kind of blows a hole in your otherwise fine theory.

mountainretreatorg.net/faq/death.html

Not like Pilate kept a diary and jotted it down in the volume for 30 AD, was it?

 

[kalt]

You may know Jewish behaviour, laws and customs, but you DON’T know that Christ was crucified in 30 AD, which kind of blows a hole in your otherwise fine theory.

mountainretreatorg.net/faq/death.html

Not like Pilate kept a diary and jotted it down in the volume for 30 AD, was it?

30 AD and 30 CE (common era) are the same thing.

Or are you saying that he can’t know exactly what year Christ died?

 

[ralphinal]

**That’s all Jews need now, is for Gentiles to tell them about Jewish behaviour, laws and customs. The Essenes were even more strict than regular Jews. Nice try though. It means you are trying to defend your church.

Ben: **

And thank you for ignoring the CONTENT of the post. Am I incorrect about the Essenes? Why resort to ignoring the information to say that I should not be telling you Jewish history without replying to the statement.

But, so you will know…
essene.com/
centuryone.org/essene.html

Oh, no, the Essenes were on a different calender.

From the second website

Even the Essene calendar was different. The Temple authorities maintained a lunar calendar; the Essenes followed a solar calendar, which consisted of exactly 52 weeks per year, that is, 364 days. According to this calendar, festivals always fell on the same day of the week. Thus, Rosh Hashanah (the Feast of Trumpets), Passover and the first day of Sukkot (the Feast of Tabernacles) always occurred on a Wednesday. The Essenes considered the solar calendar used by the Hasmoneans in the Temple, tied as it was to a 354-day lunar calendar, to be adulterated with Babylonian elements. For example, the names of the months-Nisan, Shevet, Adar, Tishri-were Babylonian. The difference in calendars created a terrible discrepancy in holiday observance, with the Temple authorities and the Essenes celebrating festivals on different days. This naturally created a sharp rift between the two groups.

So, now, please enlighten me as to how it was impossible for Jesus to celebrate the Passover at a different date when he would have been doing so along the Essene calender.

 

[Ben_Masada]

And thank you for ignoring the CONTENT of the post. Am I incorrect about the Essenes? Why resort to ignoring the information to say that I should not be telling you Jewish history without replying to the statement.

But, so you will know…
essene.com/
centuryone.org/essene.html

Oh, no, the Essenes were on a different calender.

From the second website

So, now, please enlighten me as to how it was impossible for Jesus to celebrate the Passover at a different date when he would have been doing so along the Essene calender.

**Anyways, Jesus was not an Essene. Jesus was of the same line of the Pharisees. Sorry but you are pasting opinions of people with preconceived notions with the purpose to discard the Jewishness of Jesus.

Ben: **

 

[ralphinal]

**Anyways, Jesus was not an Essene. Jesus was of the same line of the Pharisees. Sorry but you are pasting opinions of people with preconceived notions with the purpose to discard the Jewishness of Jesus.

Ben: **

Can you proove that he was not an Essene? There seems some measure of reason to consider it. His cousin John seems like one. They both never married.

And the Essenes WERE Jews. It does not discard his Jewishness at all.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Jesus was the paschal lamb.

I don’t pretend to know Judaism well, but still I’m having trouble finding your point. What is the purpose of your post?

**The purpose of my post is in the title of the thread. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

Can you proove that he was not an Essene? There seems some measure of reason to consider it. His cousin John seems like one. They both never married.

And the Essenes WERE Jews. It does not discard his Jewishness at all.

**I promise that I will prove to you that Jesus was not an Essene if you prove to me that he was not married. In fact, can you show me anywhere in the NT a statement that Jesus was NOT married? People who cannot think love to ask for proofs for this or that, but are never able to provide proofs for anything they claim. Now, it’s gonna be thus: Prove to me that Jesus was not married, and I’ll prove to you that he was not Essene.

Ben: **

 

[ralphinal]

**I promise that I will prove to you that Jesus was not an Essene if you prove to me that he was not married. In fact, can you show me anywhere in the NT a statement that Jesus was NOT married? People who cannot think love to ask for proofs for this or that, but are never able to provide proofs for anything they claim. Now, it’s gonna be thus: Prove to me that Jesus was not married, and I’ll prove to you that he was not Essene.

Ben: **

No wife mentioned, no marriage mentioned…If he was married, why would it be left out? Jesus NEVER ONCE does anything to indicate he is married at all.

But, that may not be enough for you. Matthew 19:11-12: Jesus tells us of those who CHOOSE not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom. Now, if he is saying that it is wonderful to give up having a spouse to do the work of God, in fact He does n other places, why should we think that he was married?

 

[LilyM]

30 AD and 30 CE (common era) are the same thing.

Or are you saying that he can’t know exactly what year Christ died?

I know that perfectly well. I’m saying the actual year it happened isn’t known as a certainty, any more than the year of his birth.

CE (meaning Common Era) is a politically correct terminology that I refuse to use. It is a useless attempt to hide the fact that the dating system it refers to is based upon the birth of Christ. The first year of His life, as probably calculated wrongly way back when, being the turning point between BC or BCE and AD or CE.

 

[Ben_Masada]

No wife mentioned, no marriage mentioned…If he was married, why would it be left out? Jesus NEVER ONCE does anything to indicate he is married at all.

** NEVER ONCE! What are you talking about? You say so because you don’t know what is to be a religious Jew. As a religious Jew, he could never allow a woman to touch him, let alone to anoint him with perfume on his head and feet, and kissing them. The woman had to be his wife. That will take care of your NEVER ONCE for the time being. **

But, that may not be enough for you. Matthew 19:11-12: Jesus tells us of those who CHOOSE not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom. Now, if he is saying that it is wonderful to give up having a spouse to do the work of God, in fact He does n other places, why should we think that he was married?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

The Missing Passover

We are starting Passover here in Israel. But since the wheels of the Truth cannot stop rolling, I want to bring to your attention the Passover of the year 30 CE. It was supposed to be the last one that Jesus would partake of, and he missed it.

According to John 19:31, that Sabbath was a solemn Sabbath, which is what we call in Hebrew a Shabbaton. That’s when a festival falls on the Sabbath. The KJV brings: “For that Sabbath day was a high day.”

That Sabbath was the 14th of the month of Nissan; the first day of Passover. The beginning of it is celebrated with the Passover Supper at the evening of the previous day, being that year on Friday. That’s what we call the Seder Meal.

In the year 30 CE, the Passover Supper was held on the evening of that Friday. No wonder, everyone somehow connected with the events taking place on the Calvary that day, had to leave it in a hurry to prepare themselves and their houses for the Passover Supper.

Jesus missed that Passover Supper because he was on the cross, and soon afterwards, in the tomb. But then again, how to understand that he celebrated his Passover Supper on the evening of Thursday, which was the 13th of Nissan? He didn’t. In Israel, no Jew would celebrate Passover in a different day alone or in a small group when everyone else would be doing it next day.

This discrepancy is perhaps due to the fact that the gospel writer, writing somehwere in the world, and realizing that the Jews in the Diaspora would celebrate every festival in two days, thought he could have Jesus celebrate the Passover Supper on the 13 of Nissan. It would have worked if Jesus was a Diaspora Jew; but in Israel there is no such a thing.

There is an option in Judaism to celebrate the Passover later, even a month later, if the person was not for some reason ready for it; but NEVER before. It means that, definitely, Jesus missed that Passover celebration, because his reported “Last Supper” did not have anything to do with the Passover Supper.

The gospel writer had either no idea what he was writing about or simply thought we would never find out about his blunder.

Ben

The Crucifixion took place on 3rd April 33AD at 3pm. We know this for the following reasons:
i) It was a Friday
ii) It was the day before Passover
iii) There was a lunar eclipse that day at 3pm which could be seen from Jerusalem which explains the moon which was like blood (red) at the time of the crucifixion.

Jesus didn’t miss the Passover; He was the Passover sacrifice. That’s why He is known as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. (St John’s choice of the word Lamb was not a random animal - it’s a direct connection to the Passover sacrifice.)

My understanding is that the Last Supper on the Thursday night was a prepatory meal - where the location of the Passover Supper is prepared by removing the leaven from it on the night of Nisan 14.

 

[wolfgang]

No wife mentioned, no marriage mentioned…If he was married, why would it be left out? Jesus NEVER ONCE does anything to indicate he is married at all.

** NEVER ONCE! What are you talking about? You say so because you don’t know what is to be a religious Jew. As a religious Jew, he could never allow a woman to touch him, let alone to anoint him with perfume on his head and feet, and kissing them. The woman had to be his wife. That will take care of your NEVER ONCE for the time being. **

**You are right. It’s not enough. I remember to have asked you to show me in the whole of your NT, a statement saying that Jesus was NOT married. If you can’t, do not criticize me for gathering evidences in the NT that Jesus was indeed married.

Ben: **

Where does it say He was married? What evidence have you gathered?

:angel1:

 

[ralphinal]

ralphinal;5053135:

No wife mentioned, no marriage mentioned…If he was married, why would it be left out? Jesus NEVER ONCE does anything to indicate he is married at all.

** NEVER ONCE! What are you talking about? You say so because you don’t know what is to be a religious Jew. As a religious Jew, he could never allow a woman to touch him, let alone to anoint him with perfume on his head and feet, and kissing them. The woman had to be his wife. That will take care of your NEVER ONCE for the time being. **

**You are right. It’s not enough. I remember to have asked you to show me in the whole of your NT, a statement saying that Jesus was NOT married. If you can’t, do not criticize me for gathering evidences in the NT that Jesus was indeed married.

Ben: **

Where does it say He was married? What evidence have you gathered?

:angel1:

The Da Vinci Code.

So, he must have been married to her? And yet the Gospels leave it out completely? WHy? Where is the logic in that? Jesus said that those who are unichs for the sake of the Kingdom are blessed, yet he himself would not choose that life?

And, you totally miss the point of the story of the annointing of his feet, but that is not the issue.

WHY IS IT IMPOSSIBLE THAT HE USED THE ESSENE CALENDER AND DID THE ESSENES HAVE A DIFFERENT ONE THAN THE REST OF THE JEWS?

 

[kalt]

Ben Masada;5055759:

The Da Vinci Code.

So, he must have been married to her? And yet the Gospels leave it out completely? WHy? Where is the logic in that? Jesus said that those who are unichs for the sake of the Kingdom are blessed, yet he himself would not choose that life?

And, you totally miss the point of the story of the annointing of his feet, but that is not the issue.

WHY IS IT IMPOSSIBLE THAT HE USED THE ESSENE CALENDER AND DID THE ESSENES HAVE A DIFFERENT ONE THAN THE REST OF THE JEWS?

From a NT scholar/priest that I talked to in person.

The Catholic Church believes that Jesus was never married, but there is no official teaching on the point.

That the NT doesn’t mention a wife is really unimpressive. Wives in Jewish writing were routinely left out of the narrative.

It was expected that Jewish men would be married, and there’s a part of the NT where Jesus is chastised about marriage (lack of). I’m sorry I can’t remember exactly where.

So, the thinking is that since he was chastised about it, he was probably not married.

There is no absolute proof one way or the other, but what little evidence there is points to his not being married.

The OP has an axe to grind and isn’t as well-versed in Jewish history or the NT as he claims.

 

[kalt]

I know that perfectly well. I’m saying the actual year it happened isn’t known as a certainty, any more than the year of his birth.

CE (meaning Common Era) is a politically correct terminology that I refuse to use. It is a useless attempt to hide the fact that the dating system it refers to is based upon the birth of Christ. The first year of His life, as probably calculated wrongly way back when, being the turning point between BC or BCE and AD or CE.

I don’t really care about AD or CE, because either way it refers to the same event.

We’re all working from a Catholic calendar anyway, so what difference does it make.