The more I learn, the more the confused I am as to what the morally correct thing to do is - in any situation! The commandments can be so abstract. Wh

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Hi everyone. I’ve been Catholic for a fair few years and been heavily into it. I’ve read a lot of books so I know a fair bit. However, the more I learn, the more the confused I am as to what the morally correct thing to do is - in any situation!

Let me explain with a few examples: I’ve read the Catechism. Basically it says in the Catechism that if someone commits a venial or mortal sin around you and you don’t pull them up on it, then you have more or less allowed it to occur/ or at least you have indirectly condoned it, and as a result you have also committed that venial/mortal sin with them.

The problem I have is that in today’s society, where if I take TV shows like “How I Met Your Mother” or “Family Guy” or even “The Simpsons”, as an example of the social situations I find myself in, I find myself recognising that in most situations conversation leads to topics of immodest behaviour. In normal life no one ever sits around and has “holy” conversations. As a result of the above piece from the Catechism I initially thought that I had to challenge anything anyone said and basically take the moral high ground in order to not pick up a sin.

Then I go to my priest and he says that it actually isn’t the best thing to do in a lot of situations. A lot of the time you should ignore it… but then… that goes against the Catechism.

Furthermore, if you look at the idea that it is only acceptable to kill someone if it is in self defence. The question for me then becomes, where does the line get drawn? Hypothetically, if I was living under an oppressive government, whose policies I believed would lead to me dying - would it be okay for me to assasinate the leader who implements these policies? It would obviously be to protect myself from dying - so that there is self-defence. But where is the line ever drawn? The commandments are very broad and abstract in some instances, which makes it hard to apply the rules and make the right choice in real life… and because I don’t know the right thing to do - I act without knowing whether my action is sinful or not (which is essentially sinful).

My point is that the more questions I ask about what the right thing to do is, the more I find it extremely difficult to figure out the answer. In most situations this leads to a sort of paralysis for me because in the Catechism it says that if you act in a situation without knowing whether the action you take is sinful or not - you’ve pretty much committed a sin - because of your willingness to act in ignorance. Because I don’t want to sin, I don’t act.

My question is what do I do? How do I come to know what the right thing to do is? I am extremely, extrmely confused - and rather than the thought of the Church and Jesus leading to peace, it leads me to become very stressed and anxious because I never know what the right thing to do is. How do I come to know what the right thing to do is?

Any suggestions would be really, really appreciated.
 
the commandments are not at all abstract, they are as concrete and terse as they can be. What is abstract about “Thou Shalt Not Kill”.

What is abstract is various attempts to re-write the commandments to suit our own situations. When we play games like that usually our motive is to deny or excuse our own guilt, in our own actions and omissions. That is just a normal human response which you can see in how children react when faced with obvious evidence of wrong-doing, and is the result of original sin. Now our job is to learn how to counteract that reaction as we mature in understanding of ourselves, our own nature, and most of all, God’s grace.

Please cite the paragraph in the CCC that gives the analysis you are questioning because I can’t find it.

By the time we are adults we should be able to analyze a given situation and know if it will present us with temptation, and we should know ourselves well enough to judge if we can withstand that tempation.

We should also have matured in the art of friendship so we can learn to surround ourselves with associates who share our values, or at least who do not try actively to tear down and attack our values. That extends to choices in what we read, watch or how we use various means of communication and entertainment.

It is all part of the process of maturity in the virtues, in self-control, in self-knowledge, and in relationships.

All of this growth is very hard under our own power, but much easier and more natural with the help of the Holy Spirit–and btw is precisely why we seek Confirmation as youth, so that His gifts give us supernatural assistance in our growth process. Daily prayer, frequent recourse to the sacraments, and deliberate acts of service and kindness to others are the class proven methods that enable us to avoid sin and whatever leads us to sin, and to make right judgements about situations.

I still can’t find anything in the CCC that says we are to run around accusing others of sin, like Gomer Pyle shouting “citizen’s arrest” at malefactors, so help me out with your sources.

a place to start in making right judgments is to focus on immediate situations, people and events you face today, rather than speculating about hypothetical situations. Ask not so much WWJD, but what did Jesus teach about such situations?
 
I struggle with the same thing sometimes. You just have to remember that in order for you to commit a sin you have to have FULL KNOWLEDGE and know that you are purposely commiting a sin and going against God. You know full well it is wrong and you do it anyway. My suggestion is to focus on serving the Lord, prayer, etc. The greatest commandment Jesus gave us was to love one another. Show Jesus’ love for others even if they are not living a holy life. They do not realize sometimes that they are sinning. The best thing you can do is live your life according to God’s will and pray that others follow your lead.

God calls some people to be the “moral police” and gives them a gift to be able to lead others to Him by pointing out and shedding light on their sins. But,God does not call everyone to do that. Sometimes, especially for people like me, taking too much action just pushes someone away even more.

In my opinion, if you are doing your best to love God and serve him according to your vocation, and you are honestly trying to do God’s will- you are doing pretty well. Others will follow in your footsteps.

And don’t be afraid of confession-God pours out abundant grace and mercy in the sacrement, and the priest is there to guide you. God’s name is Mercy. And if all else fails, just ask yourself “What would Jesus do in this situation? How would He show his unending mercy and love?”
 
While killing an enemy soldier who would otherwise kill you or other innocents during wartime is not a sin, assassination ALWAYS is.

Be careful not to even joke about it.

And maybe you need a new group of friends. While conversation may not always center around God, He should be in the background. It’s fine to discuss whether Family Guy is an immoral show; but to behave like those loathsome characters is not. 😉
 
yeah the bit about co-operating with sinful behaviour by not confronting it is in article 1868 of the Catechism. it says: “we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we co-operate in them by… not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so.”

as far as killing, it does say in article 2264 “someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow.”

Honestly I’m not arguing. I just want to understand what to do.
 
Yes, the Commandments are precise; as the two main Commandments are: Love God and Love one’s neighbor… as yourself; then there is the ‘on-board’ Conscience to help one know what not to do and find that love for the ‘other’ again, rather then looking at oneself somewhat selfishly.

Reading a lot seems to try to explain what the ‘simple’ is, rather then change it or confuse it if read in that light. It’s like: the simple is the ‘forest’ and the explanation is the ‘trees’. One tree makes not a forest… it’s like looking at something under a microscope, it does not look the same as we see it with the ‘vision’ God gave us to see it. This may help in understanding it, but it has not changed, we just are looking at it with the aid of a man-made tool… for greater knowledge and understanding of what it is ‘in the detail’ (the trees). And in so doing, when looking at the ‘specific’ we are not seeing the ‘general’… and a specific is not the general, nor visa-versa. If followed far enough, we can find the how and why of it… and it is still the same as when we started the investigation. We now know where the brain is; where the lungs are; where the liver is; where the heart is; BUT, we have not changed the body!

Some of the simplest sayings are very complex… if one is curious enough to explore how it was so marvelously ‘refined’.

Isn’t it interesting, that the more one learns, the more one learns how much they do not know. Ah yes, one is just getting lost in the tree branches… and it’s hard to see the tree from up-inside of it.

Simply: Love! Keep perspective! Follow the Golden Rule! Listen to your Conscience! Trust God! Listen to His Church!
 
The Commandments

The Ten Commandments are very specific, but you’re right, they aren’t easy to apply to every situation. They are fundamental moral norms, and as such are part of the natural law. The natural law is the code written in our nature that we can all know by our human reason, insofar as it’s not clouded by sin. There are basic norms that are easy to arrive at, and graduating in degrees, the moral norms are less and less readily accessible to the human reason. Most basic is “Do good and avoid evil.” (Also repeated many places in the Bible, eg Ps 33:15). At the next level are the Ten Commandments. From them come other moral norms that are still fairly clear, for example, we must not kill, but not far removed is the prohibition to harm another.

Now, the Commandments should guide us, but to figure out the morality of a specific situation, besides applying the basic moral norms, the Church has also always encouraged us to pray and to seek the guidance of a wise and holy person (a.k.a. spiritual director). Only with the Lord can we consistently follow the Way, and another person is often invaluable in discerning what the Lord is trying to tell us.
 
yeah the bit about co-operating with sinful behaviour by not confronting it is in article 1868 of the Catechism. it says: “we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we co-operate in them by… not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so.”
Welcome to the CAF site!

I added the red to what you wrote to help explain my point. I don’t think the Catechism is trying to say that you must try to stop someone every time you see them doing something that is not good. The key is that we don’t always have an obligation to try to stop someone. It is in those situations when we are obligated to do something, but we don’t do anything, then we become complicit.
 
I think you’re thinking too much, my friend. If you’re becoming confused by dwelling on whether or not you’re obligated to assassinate the leader of a cruel regime (you aren’t), then you’re not focusing on the right stuff.

Ten commandments. Seven deadly sins. Seven virtues. Follow the commandments, avoid the sins, cultivate the virtues. It’s not easy, but it is simple.

Don’t get hung up on over-intellectualizing the faith. Yes, there is a place for it. But maybe, for now, you’re better off returning to first principles.

God is real.
God loves you.
God wants you to love Him.

Spend some time in contemplation (before the Blessed Sacrament might be a good idea, if adoration is available in your area) of those facts, and leave the hair-splitting to the moral theologians. Life’s too short. 🙂

God bless, my friend.
 
I think you’re thinking too much, my friend. If you’re becoming confused by dwelling on whether or not you’re obligated to assassinate the leader of a cruel regime (you aren’t), then you’re not focusing on the right stuff.

Ten commandments. Seven deadly sins. Seven virtues. Follow the commandments, avoid the sins, cultivate the virtues. It’s not easy, but it is simple.

Don’t get hung up on over-intellectualizing the faith. Yes, there is a place for it. But maybe, for now, you’re better off returning to first principles.

God is real.
God loves you.
God wants you to love Him.

Spend some time in contemplation (before the Blessed Sacrament might be a good idea, if adoration is available in your area) of those facts, and leave the hair-splitting to the moral theologians. Life’s too short. 🙂

God bless, my friend.
I don’t usually read the Enquirer, but well spoken, friend.
 
Hi everyone. I’ve been Catholic for a fair few years and been heavily into it. I’ve read a lot of books so I know a fair bit. However, the more I learn, the more the confused I am as to what the morally correct thing to do is - in any situation!

Let me explain with a few examples: I’ve read the Catechism. Basically it says in the Catechism that if someone commits a venial or mortal sin around you and you don’t pull them up on it, then you have more or less allowed it to occur/ or at least you have indirectly condoned it, and as a result you have also committed that venial/mortal sin with them.

The problem I have is that in today’s society, where if I take TV shows like “How I Met Your Mother” or “Family Guy” or even “The Simpsons”, as an example of the social situations I find myself in, I find myself recognising that in most situations conversation leads to topics of immodest behaviour. In normal life no one ever sits around and has “holy” conversations. As a result of the above piece from the Catechism I initially thought that I had to challenge anything anyone said and basically take the moral high ground in order to not pick up a sin.

Then I go to my priest and he says that it actually isn’t the best thing to do in a lot of situations. A lot of the time you should ignore it… but then… that goes against the Catechism.

Furthermore, if you look at the idea that it is only acceptable to kill someone if it is in self defence. The question for me then becomes, where does the line get drawn? Hypothetically, if I was living under an oppressive government, whose policies I believed would lead to me dying - would it be okay for me to assasinate the leader who implements these policies? It would obviously be to protect myself from dying - so that there is self-defence. But where is the line ever drawn? The commandments are very broad and abstract in some instances, which makes it hard to apply the rules and make the right choice in real life… and because I don’t know the right thing to do - I act without knowing whether my action is sinful or not (which is essentially sinful).

My point is that the more questions I ask about what the right thing to do is, the more I find it extremely difficult to figure out the answer. In most situations this leads to a sort of paralysis for me because in the Catechism it says that if you act in a situation without knowing whether the action you take is sinful or not - you’ve pretty much committed a sin - because of your willingness to act in ignorance. Because I don’t want to sin, I don’t act.

My question is what do I do? How do I come to know what the right thing to do is? I am extremely, extrmely confused - and rather than the thought of the Church and Jesus leading to peace, it leads me to become very stressed and anxious because I never know what the right thing to do is. How do I come to know what the right thing to do is?

Any suggestions would be really, really appreciated.
Reading can make a person crazy. Kierkegaard said a man can get caught in the brackets of a text and never recover… I advice you to stop reading and start living. God has given you the Holy Spirit in you. All truth is in Him. When you ponder and pray you will find that you already have the answer.
When you encounter dilemmas you will be guided by Him… or you may get guided by your confused mind if you dont become like a child again… Jesus didn’t ask us to write a thousand texts. He never wrote anything to be kept…
The most crucial stuff is written in the New Testament. Go by the principles therein and you will have peace of mind.
I am a convert myself… lost my self for some time in the babblings of all kinds of mystics… until one day I did not want it anymore… I felt it estranged me from Christ and really didnt have much to do with my life with Him and the existence here and now.
Become like a naked seed… ready to be trown into the ground to become a great tree that blesses others…
The early martyrs died before anything was ever written down. They had Christ so they had everything.
Don’t be afraid.
 
Go to newadvent.org and the type in fraternal correction in their search engine. It will show you when you are obligated to correct someone and it will remove a lot of pressure from you. When it comes to the more questions you ask the harder it is to find answer, think first do i need to ask the question? The answer when it comes to killing in self defense is no, you don’t. Do not worry about whether something is a sin unless it is a immediate problem. If you feel overwhelmed just stop thinking about it do something else until you calm down enough to be able to evaluate properly. Take as long as you need

As to whether you know if an action is sinful can you give an example of what is worrying you on that point?
 
TV shows like “How I Met Your Mother” or “Family Guy” or even “The Simpsons”, as an example of the social situations I find myself in, I find myself recognising that in most situations conversation leads to topics of immodest behaviour
Which is why as a Catholic one should generally watch very little to no TV. Who could take pleasure in such things if the mind and soul are rightly ordered towards love of God and holiness, towards purity of mind?

And why one of the themes of the saints, which they harp upon (just as scripture) is to withdraw from the world – to fulfill the promise of baptism. To live a different life. That, as a Christian, one’s interior life, preferences, conversations, habits will be markedly different than those who are not, a renunciation of the world.

‘Get out of the filth of the horrible torrent of this world, the torrent of thorns that is whirling you into the abyss of eternal perdition. . . This torrent is the world, which resembles an impetuous torrent, full of garbage and evil odours, making a lot of noise but flowing swiftly passed, dragging the majority of men into the pit of perdition.’

St. Jean Eudes

‘God is your business and language. Whoever wants to speak to you must learn this language; and if he doesn’t, be on your guard that you don’t learn his; it will be a hell.’

St. Teresa of Jesus
 
Jyyzzoel, Thank you so much for bringing up this topic. I feel the same way you do. The more I try to learn the more I get confused. I often feel overwhelemd by it all. I think I should just try to do the best and stop making everything so complicated. I always worry that everything I do or say is sinful. Again thanks. In chirst.:confused:
 
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