The More I Read

[thecoach]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits. It seems to me this is the nature of denominations, I guess. However, I seem to be developing more of a “Christian” mindset than denominational. For all the times I used to defend the Catholic faith, and it was many, I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God.

 

[allischalmers]

I agree, and it is displeasing to God. This is why I am thinking of leaving CAF to spend more time studying God.s Word

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits. It seems to me this is the nature of denominations, I guess. However, I seem to be developing more of a “Christian” mindset than denominational. For all the times I used to defend the Catholic faith, and it was many, I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God.

Amen!!! Im sure God looks down and says:nope: I just love reading thw Word of God It is like I cant get enough of it:thumbsup: :extrahappy:

Right now I am having some down time from bible studies and I do feel a little vunerable because Im not in the Word as much as I will be in a couple of weeks.

 

[a_priori]

The concept of what is “displeasing to God” has always intrigued me. People reading the Bible and then coming up with entire theological systems that fly in the face of the traditional understanding of the establsihed ancient Churches can’t make Him very happy either. (Whatever “happy” means to a self-sufficient omnipotent God).

Reading God’s word is great. Especially when we apply it to ourselves.

However, when I was evangelical we had a saying. “Don’t be so heavenly minded that you’re no earthly good”.

While we yap about who’s hermeneutic is correct, people for whom Christ died are suffering and perishing for lack of our help. Some things in the Bible leave no room for interpretation. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked and heal the sick.

It makes more sense to work on these things that all Christians MUST believe and save the doctrinal thumb wrestling for a day off.

 

[John_Hiner]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits. It seems to me this is the nature of denominations, I guess. However, I seem to be developing more of a “Christian” mindset than denominational. For all the times I used to defend the Catholic faith, and it was many, I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God.

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

I am not sure that I follow you. Are you referring to the Catholic Faith as a “denomination?”

If you contrast “the Word of God” with the Liturgy and with the teachings of the Church, then you may have fallen into a false peace which is not the Peace of Christ.

The Holy Spirit with the Conciliar Fathers of Vatican II teaches:

Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that fully conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy. Such participation by the Christian people as “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people (1 Pet. 2:9; cf. 2:4-5), is their right and duty by reason of their baptism. In the restoration and promotion of the sacred liturgy, this full and active participation by all the people is the aim to be considered before all else; for it is the primary and indispensable source from which the faithful are to derive the true Christian spirit . . .” (Sacrosanctum Concilium, 14).

Jesus teaches:

Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword," (Matthew 10:34).

So, beware; you may be mistaking the flesh’s desire for quietus for the Peace of Christ. Any action can be done idly, including reading the Scripture. If your “reading” is leading you away from the “ritual” of the Liturgy or the teachings (doctrines) of the Church, it might be a misguided spirit being mistaken for “Christian.” Reading the Scripture has done that to many. (See, 2 Peter 3:16.)

It is often necessary to rest and to replenish one’s resources. However, this cannot be a temptation to abandon the spiritual warfare which is the Peace of Christ – the Christian life in this world. As Pope Benedict said recently:

“the peace of Jesus is the fruit of a constant struggle against evil. The battle that Jesus has decided to fight is not against men or human powers but against the enemy of God and man, Satan," (ZE07081909 - 2007-08-19).

So, if you cannot follow the sense in arguments clarifying the Faith, or if you are tired and cannot engage in the struggle with love for your interlocutors, then rest – but rest temporarily. We need you; and, the “true Christian spirit” is in the liturgy not in rest. One final note from the Catechism issued by John Paul II:

“In the New Testament the word “liturgy” refers not only to the celebration of divine worship but also to the proclamation of the Gospel and to active charity. In all of these situations it is a question of the service of God and neighbor. In a liturgical celebration the Church is servant in the image of her Lord, the one “leitourgos”; she shares in Christ’s priesthood (worship), which is both prophetic (proclamation) and kingly (service of charity):

“The liturgy then is rightly seen as an exercise of the priestly office of Jesus Christ. It involves the presentation of man’s sanctification under the guise of signs perceptible by the senses and its accomplishment in ways appropriate to each of these signs. In it full public worship is performed by the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, that is, by the Head and his members. From this it follows that every liturgical celebration, because it is an action of Christ the priest and of his Body which is the Church, is a sacred action surpassing all others. No other action of the Church can equal its efficacy by the same title and to the same degree.” (CCC, 1070.)

You are called to love; reading is preparation, but love is action: celebration of Sacrifice, works of charity – including correction of error – and proclamation of the Gospel, which is the Catholic Faith.

I hope this is helpful.

Pax Christi tecum.

John Hiner

 

[dolphinlove]

Yes I know what you mean…
and i think a lot of people reading that quote coming from me is a bit of a jaw dropper, especially one like me that comes on here and disses Islam quite a bit.
Its been a while since ive picked up my bible and actually read it…
I think its time i did it again…
:coffeeread:

 

[Harpazo]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits. It seems to me this is the nature of denominations, I guess. However, I seem to be developing more of a “Christian” mindset than denominational. For all the times I used to defend the Catholic faith, and it was many, I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God.

You do know that the Word of God contains Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition right? Never in all of Christian history was it one over the other.

Just thought I’d clarify for you.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits. It seems to me this is the nature of denominations, I guess. However, I seem to be developing more of a “Christian” mindset than denominational. For all the times I used to defend the Catholic faith, and it was many, I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God.

I have a couple things to say.

First off, avoid threads/topics you consider “senseless”, they are in fact a waste of time. They are often threads full of fluff and multiple single sentence posts of personal attacks rather than substance.

There are threads though where important topics are being addressed and those should not be seen as bickering or senseless. That being said you have to get a feel for when a thread is going way off topic or dying off, then drop it because it usually goes down hill.

The bickering and such can and does stress people out, definitely take a break from these forums (long or short) if you feel this coming on, its not worth harming your spiritual life.

 

[thecoach]

You do know that the Word of God contains Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition right? Never in all of Christian history was it one over the other.

Just thought I’d clarify for you.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

No, the Word of God is the Word of God, and tradition is tradition. You are correct in not one over the other, but are in error that they are the same thing, the Word.

 

[thecoach]

Laudatur Iesus Christus.

I am not sure that I follow you. Are you referring to the Catholic Faith as a “denomination?”

If you contrast “the Word of God” with the Liturgy and with the teachings of the Church, then you may have fallen into a false peace which is not the Peace of Christ.

The Holy Spirit with the Conciliar Fathers of Vatican II teaches:

Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that fully conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy. Such participation by the Christian people as “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people (1 Pet. 2:9; cf. 2:4-5), is their right and duty by reason of their baptism. In the restoration and promotion of the sacred liturgy, this full and active participation by all the people is the aim to be considered before all else; for it is the primary and indispensable source from which the faithful are to derive the true Christian spirit . . .” (Sacrosanctum Concilium, 14).

Jesus teaches:

Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword," (Matthew 10:34).

So, beware; you may be mistaking the flesh’s desire for quietus for the Peace of Christ. Any action can be done idly, including reading the Scripture. If your “reading” is leading you away from the “ritual” of the Liturgy or the teachings (doctrines) of the Church, it might be a misguided spirit being mistaken for “Christian.” Reading the Scripture has done that to many. (See, 2 Peter 3:16.)

It is often necessary to rest and to replenish one’s resources. However, this cannot be a temptation to abandon the spiritual warfare which is the Peace of Christ – the Christian life in this world. As Pope Benedict said recently:

“the peace of Jesus is the fruit of a constant struggle against evil. The battle that Jesus has decided to fight is not against men or human powers but against the enemy of God and man, Satan," (ZE07081909 - 2007-08-19).

So, if you cannot follow the sense in arguments clarifying the Faith, or if you are tired and cannot engage in the struggle with love for your interlocutors, then rest – but rest temporarily. We need you; and, the “true Christian spirit” is in the liturgy not in rest. One final note from the Catechism issued by John Paul II:

“In the New Testament the word “liturgy” refers not only to the celebration of divine worship but also to the proclamation of the Gospel and to active charity. In all of these situations it is a question of the service of God and neighbor. In a liturgical celebration the Church is servant in the image of her Lord, the one “leitourgos”; she shares in Christ’s priesthood (worship), which is both prophetic (proclamation) and kingly (service of charity):

“The liturgy then is rightly seen as an exercise of the priestly office of Jesus Christ. It involves the presentation of man’s sanctification under the guise of signs perceptible by the senses and its accomplishment in ways appropriate to each of these signs. In it full public worship is performed by the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, that is, by the Head and his members. From this it follows that every liturgical celebration, because it is an action of Christ the priest and of his Body which is the Church, is a sacred action surpassing all others. No other action of the Church can equal its efficacy by the same title and to the same degree.” (CCC, 1070.)

You are called to love; reading is preparation, but love is action: celebration of Sacrifice, works of charity – including correction of error – and proclamation of the Gospel, which is the Catholic Faith.

I hope this is helpful.

Pax Christi tecum.

John Hiner

I was going to respond to your points, then thought, why bother. Lets just say your assumptions are way off. My peace is true peace, and my connection to God is true, I pray your may be as well.

 

[latinmasslover]

I was going to respond to your points, then thought, why bother. Lets just say your assumptions are way off. My peace is true peace, and my connection to God is true, I pray your may be as well.

If your peace is true peace, if your connection to God is true, then you would remain firm in the Faith.
There’s a Baptist I know, anti-Catholic (not against the person, but the religion) and his only response was “you’re wrong, you’re wrong…” and he would never back up that statement. You’re doing the same thing because you know that what you’re saying has no grounds.
Peace that leads one to doubt/deny the teachings of the Church that **Jesus Christ established **is not true peace; all it means is that the Devil has called off the spiritual attacks.
Reading the Bible is a wonderful thing, but keep in mind that the Bible itself forbids personal interpretation.
And just out of curiosity, you said that John Hiner was “way off.” How so? Your response, or rather lack of a response, tells everybody that what you’re doing is wrong, and you know it and don’t want to be called on it. So, what did he say that was so erroneous?

 

[nonsumd]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits. It seems to me this is the nature of denominations, I guess. However, I seem to be developing more of a “Christian” mindset than denominational. For all the times I used to defend the Catholic faith, and it was many, I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God.

I know how you feel, thecoach. Over the years I myself have burned a lot of my time on the internet on various boards defending the Catholic faith, and I have wondered not only if I was wasting my time but also if I was giving in to the temptation to be prideful and uncharitable (actually, not just wondering - I was.

I have often worried that the energy I have been putting into debating doctrine and history I should have been putting into other activities, especially into loving and serving my neighbor. I am glad to say that by God’s grace I have a more balanced faith life now – in the past year I have become more active in my parish than I ever have been.

I do not consider defending the Catholic faith to be acting in a “denominational” way, to be acting in a way that is different from acting in a “Christian” way.

What do you mean by the “Word of God”?

If you mean simply a printed book that you can pick up and find exactly what you should believe and how you should live, I think your idea of the “Word of God” is a limited one.

For Christians, the Word of God is a Person, not a Book – the Person of Jesus Christ, God Incarnate. Jesus founded a Church, the Catholic Church, which under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, determined which of the many available writings on Christ were to constitute the New Testament.

There is no full understanding of the Word of God without acknowledging:
(1) that the Word of God is a Person;
(2) that that Person founded a Church to be his visible presence on the earth;
(3) that that Church determined which books were to become Holy Scripture; and
(4) that Holy Scripture is to be read under the guidance of the teaching authority of the Church Jesus Himself founded.

The “rituals” of which you seem to think less and less are the sacraments, the primary means (though not the only ones) by which God communicates His grace to us. The Eucharist, in particular, is Christ sharing His physical being with us – does this sound like something that someone who wants to be “more Christian” should be ignoring?

Peace

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Feelings are not a very good indication of the ‘truth’ of a position. God bless, but ‘feeling a peace’ does not mean that you’ve seen the light. The devil, as you know, can disguise himself as an angel of light. Further, in a world which is becoming more anti-Christian (and make no mistake, being anti-Catholic is the first and greatest ‘step’ toward being anti-Christian, even if you think yourself to BE Christian), the more you conform to the world–which has firmly established itself as being anti-Catholic–the more ‘peace’ you will feel --the ‘world’s’ peace.

Most of us Catholics here read the Bible --and do good works–and try to live a POSITIVE life–for a far greater percentage of time than we may be on these fora. And since a subjective ‘feeling’ that others are ‘bickering’, ‘arguing senseless’, etc. does not mean that the discussions are indeed bickering or senseless, you may be missing the point of these fora entirely.

 

[crenfro]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits.

I prefer a spirited discussion myself, provided it’s done with an attitude of charity. When someone lovingly points out my errors it is a good exercise in humility for me.

I think the bickering would cease if we all spoke to each other from an attitude of love rather than self-righteousness.

Also, it’s not always WHAT is said, but HOW it’s said.

Just my two cents.

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

The more I read this forum, and the more I read my Bible, the more sensitive I become to all the almost non-stop bickering and senseless arguing. St. Paul warned Timothy and Titus against such futile pursuits. It seems to me this is the nature of denominations, I guess. However, I seem to be developing more of a “Christian” mindset than denominational. For all the times I used to defend the Catholic faith, and it was many, I was never as at peace and felt as close to God as I do now that I am not as concerned with ritual or teaching, but only the Word of God.

I agree completely. Spending time in the Word of God has also brought me more peace and strengthened my faith more than anything else. The constant bickering and arguing on this forum have led me to depend increasingly on the Word of God rather than rituals and teachings, which seem only to divide.

God bless you for yor honesty. You are not alone.

Priscilla Ann

 

[thecoach]

If your peace is true peace, if your connection to God is true, then you would remain firm in the Faith.
There’s a Baptist I know, anti-Catholic (not against the person, but the religion) and his only response was “you’re wrong, you’re wrong…” and he would never back up that statement. You’re doing the same thing because you know that what you’re saying has no grounds.
Peace that leads one to doubt/deny the teachings of the Church that **Jesus Christ established **is not true peace; all it means is that the Devil has called off the spiritual attacks.
Reading the Bible is a wonderful thing, but keep in mind that the Bible itself forbids personal interpretation.
And just out of curiosity, you said that John Hiner was “way off.” How so? Your response, or rather lack of a response, tells everybody that what you’re doing is wrong, and you know it and don’t want to be called on it. So, what did he say that was so erroneous?

I will not participate in pointless banter. What I find interesting is this portion of the forum boards are for non-Catholics, yet some of you ride on in a full tirade if someone doesnt agree with you. What is erroneous is his, yours, or anyone’s assumption that you know what is taking place between someone and God.

 

[latinmasslover]

I will not participate in pointless banter. What I find interesting is this portion of the forum boards are for non-Catholics, yet some of you ride on in a full tirade if someone doesnt agree with you. What is erroneous is his, yours, or anyone’s assumption that you know what is taking place between someone and God.

***“He who will not have the Church for his mother cannot have God for his Father.” ***St. Augustine. I pray, the pope prays, John prays, and I could go on to list thousands of saints, all who are told by God that Christ established the Church, and to leave the Church is to leave God. The Devil contorts Scripture to suit his purpose: division. The Catholic Church promotes that unity which Jesus Christ prayed for; Protestantism supports spiritual anarchy…to each his own…something you hear from Wiccans and other neo pagans. You can’t pick and choose which verses of Scripture you will accept or not…this is something that the Devil did when tempting the Lord, something he did with Luther, Calvin, Smith…if those are your models, verses the Apostles, disciples, Jesus Christ Himself, then I don’t know what to say…“If you will not hear the Truth, no one can tell you.” I’ll pray for your openness to the Spirit of God.

 

[OneAugustKnight]

I will not participate in pointless banter. What I find interesting is this portion of the forum boards are for non-Catholics, yet some of you ride on in a full tirade if someone doesnt agree with you. What is erroneous is his, yours, or anyone’s assumption that you know what is taking place between someone and God.

I might be wrong, but I think this forum is for the discussion of Non-Catholic religions, and that Catholics and non-Catholics are allowed to participate fully on all the forums at Catholic Answers. I hope your studies bring you ever closer to Christ. God bless.

 

[Kristine1957]

Wow I should of read this thread first… It seems as I try to understand other religions and ( try to explain mine) some (not all) people just want to start an argument I try to express myself with compassion for other people and thier religious beliefs but it seems there are a few people here that just want to argue…

 

[Tonks40]

The more I read Scripture, the more I realize that Jesus comes fully alive in the Catholic Church - through her sacraments, through the Mass, through the devotions. What a wonderful discovery that is!