The Mormon boys came to my door...

[Allweather]

Thanks. I think you will find that Mormons are the most tolerant of other peoples’ faiths, and are willing to respect other peoples’ beliefs, and honor them for what they are, rather than try to force them to believe as they do. That come from the inner confidence and assurance they have that what they have found is indeed the truth.

zerinus

I agree that Mormons tend to not be argumentative, but I disagree that this has anything to do with their “inner confidence and assurance.” I don’t think Mormons are any more or less self-assured or confident than anyone else.

It is simply because they’re counseled NOT to engage in contentious argument about religion. They’re told in church that “Satan loves contention” and advised that, when challenged on specific beliefs, to just smile, say, “have a nice day”, and walk away from it. My fiance explained to me that she was told many times in church that religious argument comes from the Devil. In fact, when I first met her, it was impossible to get her to open up and discuss anything at all.

There are three main results of this strategy: First, Mormons don’t have to know much about their faith in order to defend it, which is a good thing, because most of them don’t know very much about Mormonism. Second, because they will refuse to engage in contentious dialog, they will avoid being faced with questions they will find difficult to answer. Third, their refusal to engage makes them seem placid, self-assured. It is a good strategy.

 

[zerinus]

You guys need to behave! :dts:

But this is hilarious!

There is nothing wrong with having a good laugh, especially at the expense of this guy!

zerinus

 

[anamchara]

:banghead: :banghead: This thread has become absolutely repetitoious and bizarre. Now he is reduced to one of the strangest distortions of logic I have ever seen. What you say turns right back on us, thank you for the compliment. In my experience, your perception of LDS people belongs right on the star Kolob-- ever visited there?

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds

He really doesn’t have many alternatives left.

It’s become bizarre because it’s filled with a bunch of adolescents, your post fits right in you can’t have a normal conversation so you use cheap tactics by bringing up things like “star of Kolob” nice going Jerusha

 

[Allweather]

Of course we don’t believe that you are all going to hell. No Mormon would tell you that. Zerinus

Isn’t that because Mormons don’t believe in the same Hell that Catholics are taught?

Mormons certainly do NOT teach that Catholics have any possibility of going to Mormon Heaven. Their construct of Heaven and Hell are very, very different from the Christian one.

Maybe Z could take this opportunity to tell us about Mormon Hell or the equivalent.

 

[Aramis]

A large part of how to deal with mormon missionaries depends greatly upon how one perceives them.

If one perceives them as “Christians doing good works” then one should aid them.

If one perceives them as “Christian Heretics” then one should not aid them.

If one perceives them as “Deluded by the Devil into doing the Devils work” one should divert them from those of weak or non-extant faith for as long as possible… lock them out of the buildings, chase them out of town, call the police for them being vagrants and/or trespassing. (I did call the police on a Mormon who ignored the sign on my door saying “No Soliciting. No Preaching.” He was ticketed for criminal trespass.)

 

[Jerusha]

I would much rather use sarcasm and humor than other things I have fantasized.

Aramis hit it exactly right. It is obvious which belief I have. And that is driven by life experiences, not bigotry.

 

[anamchara]

I think that you will find that those who act in this way are most of the time not true Catholics.

Ya think? Gee I hadn’t notice actually most of them on here I have found our converts from the far right fringes of Protestism. I only judge what I think is wrong headed and as a Catholic I will call them on it.

A few haven’t been reading the section on “separate brethren” in our Catechism

there’s the whole seven practices of charity toward our neighbor or “corporal works of Mercy”.

1. 
   *]Feed the hungry
   *]Give drink to the thirsty
   *]Clothe the naked
   *]Shelter the homeless
   *]Visit the sick
   *]Visit those in prison
   *]Bury the dead
   
   Oh and the…
   The seven practices of Catholic charity toward our neighbor’s soul:
   » Convert the sinner
   » Instruct the ignorant
   » Counsel the doubtful
   » Comfort the sorrowful
   » Bear wrongs patiently
   » Forgive injuries
   » Pray for the living and the dead
   
   I haven’t seen a lot of forgiving injuries, bearing wrongs patiently or any type instructing going on, it’s been more “judge the sinner” I don’t see that as part of our faith.
   

   Of course we don’t believe that you are all going to hell. No Mormon would tell you that.

 

[zerinus]

I agree that Mormons tend to not be argumentative, but I disagree that this has anything to do with their “inner confidence and assurance.” I don’t think Mormons are any more or less self-assured or confident than anyone else.

Actually, that is not true. There is a big difference between the confidence and assurance that Mormons have of the truth of their faith, and those which others might have in theirs. The confidence of the Mormons is born of the testimony of the Holy Ghost, which is not true of others. That is what makes all the difference. You are not the same person once you have had that. It changes your attitude towards others. You need to experience it for yourself to know what it is like. You will never know otherwise.

The rest of your post is rubbish, and does not require a reply.

zerinus

 

[twosweetgirls]

For Zerinus:


After all, turnabout is fair play.

 

[zerinus]

For Zerinus:

After all, turnabout is fair play.

I could do better than that if I wanted to moch the Catholic Church; but I have no desire to do so. I respect other peoples’ beliefs, and especially the Catholic Church; and have no desire to mock it.

zerinus

 

[twosweetgirls]

Yet you’d mock a member for disagreeing with you.

 

[zerinus]

Isn’t that because Mormons don’t believe in the same Hell that Catholics are taught?

No.

Mormons certainly do NOT teach that Catholics have any possibility of going to Mormon Heaven.

Wrong, they do.

Their construct of Heaven and Hell are very, very different from the Christian one.

You mean “apostate Christian one”. True! LDS concept of heaven and hell is different from that of apostate Christianity.

Maybe Z could take this opportunity to tell us about Mormon Hell or the equivalent.

I will be glad to keep you informed. Our beliefs regarding heaven and hell are as follows:

1. 
   *]Contrary to what apostate Christendom believes, we do not believe that heaven is all one place. We believe that heaven is divided into three levels, or degrees of glory. Anyone who makes it to any one of these is considered “saved,” and will be happy in that situation—as happy as he is capable of being.
   
   *]We think that hell is also probably graded, just as heaven is; although nothing specific is mentioned in LDS scripture about that. But there are clear indications in the New Testament that that is most probably the case.
   
   *]Again, contrary to popular belief in apostate Christendom, we believe that people who go to hell do not necessarily stay there forever. Hell is a place of punishment for the wrongs committed in this life; but for many (if not most) it will have an end. Once the term of punishment is ended, they will be taken to one of the three heavens mentioned above. (This is somewhat similar to the Purgatory that the Catholics believe in.)
   
   *]We believe that most sins are eventually forgivable in this life or in the next. The sin that is not forgivable is the sin against the Holy Ghost, which includes premeditated murder. These are the only ones who (as far as it has been revealed) will not be redeemed from hell.
   
   *]Contrary to your misinformation, we don’t believe that Mormons are the only ones who will go to the highest heaven. Only God knows what is in peoples’ hearts; and those whom He deems would have accepted His restored gospel if they had been allowed to live and have that opportunity, will also go to the highest heaven.
   
   *]Being a Mormon does not necessarily guarantee you a place in the highest heaven either. One has to be “valiant” in the cause of truth, and in the testimony of Jesus to get there; and not all Mormons are such.
   
   zerinus

 

[East_and_West]

They are there to share the restored gospel of Jesus Christ with those who are interested to hear. If you are not interested, you should not waste their time.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

What a nutcase!

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Ya think? Gee I hadn’t notice actually most of them on here I have found our converts from the far right fringes of Protestism. I only judge what I think is wrong headed and as a Catholic I will call them on it.

I was referring more specifically to those who participate in Mormon related discussions. Most of them are apostates from Mormonism who have found a haven in the Catholic Church, and use it as a platform from which to bash Mormonism. They are no more believers in Catholicism than they are in Mormonism. Even those who are not, usually have had some reason to be disgruntled with it. They have had a Mormon boyfriend or girlfriend, or are (or have been) married to one, or have had a family member convert, or they have investigated it and the Holy Spirit witnessed to them that it is true, and they have then turned against that witness, or something of that description.

zerinus

 

[Allweather]

I will be glad to keep you informed. Our beliefs regarding heaven and hell are as follows:

*]We believe that most sins are eventually forgivable in this life or in the next. The sin that is not forgivable is the sin against the Holy Ghost, which includes premeditated murder. These are the only ones who (as far as it has been revealed) will not be redeemed from hell.

Thanks, Zerinus. I may have a few questions for you on this later, once I’ve got a chance to read thru it. Is this your own synopsis? Or is it taken from another source?

One thing that catches my eye is the clip just above, where you say that one unforgiveable sin is murder. According to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism article under the heading “Telestial Kingdom” it says the following:

““Within the telestial glory there will be varying degrees of glory even as the stars vary in brightness as we see them. It embraces those who on earth willfully reject the gospel of Jesus Christ, and commit serious sins such as murder, adultery””…an so on.

If this be accurate, then it seems as if this disagrees with what you say about Murder being an unforgiveable sin in terms of everlasting perdition.

Also, I wonder about the “willfully reject the gospel of Jesus Christ” part. Does this refer specifically to the Mormon version of the gospel? If it does, then it would seem that anyone who rejects Mormonism is consigned by definition to no higher than the telestial kingdom.

 

[majick275]

amgid/zerinus,

How can you state that you respect others beliefs and yet also claim that no others have experienced the Holy Spirit? You also claim all non-LDS are “apostate Christians”. It doesn’t make sense.

I find your comments on former LDS presumptuous at best. you don’t know their minds. I/We DO believe in the Catholic church. Do you see converts to mormonsim as “apostates” from their former faiths? do you believe that they don’t believe in the LDS church either? You should follow your own advice and consider that the Catholic church might be the true church that God founded. The Holy Spirit testifies of that to me. Have you asked God with an open mind and humble heart if the Catholic church is true?

 

[Lepanto]

You also believe that Kolob is the planet closest to God and that someday you will be a god, having eternal intercourse to create spirit babies to populate your planet.

If I actually thought that this pubescent-male fantasy doctrine was true I’d convert and become a Mormon bishop!

 

[Ceil-1]

Oh, they aren’t any worse than you or me.

 

[Lepanto]

Christianity is apostate. Mormonism is true.

zerinus

Well…at least you are being truthful by implying that Mormonism is not Christian.