The most depressing thing about Catholicism - no mystics living on earth

[BobCatholic]

No it wasn’t before the silence. You forget in the first part of the book when the saint (Maria Faustina) went through the strangest yet most incredible rejection if you can say from God in her life.

You mean when she went to a dance and Jesus appeared to her giving her a mega-guilt trip about why she was delaying?

She had mystical experiences from before she entered the convent.

Every darkness or silence is telling you not to give up.

No.

The consolations are telling me not to give up.

The darkness or silence is “I want you to love me for who I am and not the warm fuzzies I give you. So I take away the warm fuzzies so you learn to love me without them.”

But the problem is I never had those warm fuzzies.

You don’t need a mystic to hear from God. Everyone can hear from God through prayer and meditation on the scriptures. I know people who pray for others and get words for them. Try going to a prayer meeting or to a life in the Spirit seminar.

Prayer is a monologue to me. I talk to God and he is silent.

I went to several prayer meetings and it did not help. I went to a life in the spirit seminar and was turned away from a baptism of the holy spirit. Devastating.

 

[AKDee]

I can’t do that. I’m horrible at that, my mind wanders and I wind up doing a horrible job.

I mean, just doing the five first saturdays took me almost 2 years because I kept screwing it up. I’d miss one and have to start over again, with despair on my ability to persevere (if I can’t even do this simple thing, I’m doomed if I have to do more)

Ok, that’s fair enough. How about simply telling Our Lady what your intentions are (what you want her to ask Our Lord for help with) and then say a single Hail Mary? One Hail Mary, said with devotion, is better than a whole Rosary said badly.

You remain in my prayers.

 

[petra22]

Ok, that’s fair enough. How about simply telling Our Lady what your intentions are (what you want her to ask Our Lord for help with) and then say a single Hail Mary? One Hail Mary, said with devotion, is better than a whole Rosary said badly.

You remain in my prayers.

 

[dsfgsadfgsdfg]

don’t forget to thank God periodically throughout the day for your blessings. Not only is this important for your faith journey, but also it is important psychologically because it forces you to think about what you do have, what blessings you have received, what graces you have received help with. Otherwise it’s all too easy to only focus on the things that are going wrong.

Extremely important, and I think excellent advice.

 

[Polluted]

Ya, give up on the idea that these Holy people are like a telephone to God for you and others. I like what someone said God chooses the subject manner in their communication…and it most likely isn’t a verbal chat.

However I HAVE met Christians who swear up and down that God “Talks to them”. I’m not sure I buy it, at least not as in 2 people speaking English to eachother.

There are “mystics” and “Holy” people on earth. I have only met a couple, but you can see it in their eyes, their face. You can simply tell you are in the presence with someone who is on a first name basis with the Lord

 

[AKDee]

However I HAVE met Christians who swear up and down that God “Talks to them”. I’m not sure I buy it, at least not as in 2 people speaking English to eachother.

Do you do Eucharistic Adoration? If not, I suggest you try it and see if you don’t change your mind about that. I’ve been doing Adoration for just a few months but I definitely get some interesting experiences while there. Do I see Jesus sitting there across from me and have full blown conversations with him? No. (Although some people may- I know our parish has some mystics in it that have had some amazing experiences while in Adoration.) But I’ve had thoughts come to me in Adoration that I will swear did not come from my own head- answers to questions, advice to situations, and even some powerful visions while praying the Rosary that made it seem like I was actually present for His Passion. And why not? As a Catholic, you should certainly believe in the Real Presences of Christ in the Eucharist. If you’re sitting before Him you should not be surprised when He speaks to you.

 

[chaplainmom]

There are MANY Catholic mystics alive on earth today. Every single one of us Catholics are part of the mystical body of Christ.

Every genuine “mystic” will guide you to finding the presence of the Good Lord alive within your own soul. Only the false prophets will claim to be guru’s that can tell you all the answers. You too are indeed a “mystic” deep within. God does not abandon any of us.

May your concerns be answered with the wellspring of His grace flowing forth from your own heart. Peace and Prayers.

 

[petra22]

Do you do Eucharistic Adoration? If not, I suggest you try it and see if you don’t change your mind about that. I’ve been doing Adoration for just a few months but I definitely get some interesting experiences while there. Do I see Jesus sitting there across from me and have full blown conversations with him? No. (Although some people may- I know our parish has some mystics in it that have had some amazing experiences while in Adoration.) But I’ve had thoughts come to me in Adoration that I will swear did not come from my own head- answers to questions, advice to situations, and even some powerful visions while praying the Rosary that made it seem like I was actually present for His Passion. And why not? As a Catholic, you should certainly believe in the Real Presences of Christ in the Eucharist. If you’re sitting before Him you should not be surprised when He speaks to you.

I was trying to explain this very thing to some other people. It’s true what you say.

 

[BobCatholic]

Ya, give up on the idea that these Holy people are like a telephone to God for you and others. I like what someone said God chooses the subject manner in their communication…and it most likely isn’t a verbal chat.

I have to give up on the idea that God will talk to me directly.

I have to give up on the idea that God will talk to me indirectly through a mystic.

I have to give up on the idea that God will talk to me. Period.

This is a hard teaching. Very hard. And very depressing, which is my point.

How can one have a personal relationship with God if there is no communication (two way) whatsoever?

Prayer is only a monologue. There is no way to have two-way communication with God. There’s no way for me to connect with God.

I recall a story by Jeff Cavins. He was 9, and bullies talked him into climbing to the roof of a house, and then took the ladder away, causing him to be trapped on the roof. He yelled out “DAAAD” and his dad came running to his rescue. The bullies scattered and he was rescued.

I want desperately that kind of relationship with our Heavenly Father.

But I’m trapped on the roof and never, ever can get down. No amount of yelling “DAAAD” will do anything. Prayer is only a monologue.

Game over.

I’ll just go back to my ordinary life. I’ll just try my best to stay out of mortal and venial sin and partake of the sacraments. I can’t make a difference. I can’t do anything good enough. I’ll never hear the voice of the Good Shepherd. I’ll never connect with God.

When I die, I’ll either go to hell, or if I actually have God’s grace, I’ll stay in purgatory to be the last one out, and go to heaven to be in a room furthest away from God, and won’t get to see him. In the wedding feast, I’ll be the wallflower. There will be dancing in heaven, I’ll just watch from a distance. There will be great saints having the Beatific vision, I’ll just watch from a distance. This is the best I can hope for.

Either which way, there’s no hope for me to connect with God.

 

[AKDee]

Prayer is only a monologue. There is no way to have two-way communication with God. There’s no way for me to connect with God.

Respectfully…Are you actually listening? Not with your ears, but with your heart. Are you listening? God does speak to us. For most of us, not out loud. But pay attention as you pray. Do thoughts come to you that surprise you, thoughts that you can be fairly certain you didn’t come up with by yourself? Do you see things in your imagination? Also- pay attention to see if what you ask for is granted to you.

I think you are placing way too much emphasis on hearing God speaking to you like a human being does…but why? God is so much more than we are, and He communicates with us in so many different ways. You’re trying to pigeon hole Him into communicating with you like a human, but our method of communication is so much more limited than what He can do. Why don’t you ask instead, “Lord, that I may see? Lord, that I may hear?” and ask Him to open you up spiritually that you might hear Him and see Him the way He wants you to.

Isaiah 55:8-9

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts”

 

[BobCatholic]

That’s something to chew on.

“Do thoughts come to you that surprise you, thoughts that you can be fairly certain you didn’t come up with by yourself?”

Sometimes I get a great idea, and I say “Thanks Lord for that idea!” I knew that came from God, and am grateful for that. These are soooooooooo rare, that I feel as if God is begrudgingly doing it rather than being glad to do it as part of a living relationship.

For some reason I don’t see that as communication, but rather inspiration. Similar to a brain transplant.

If I only could see God as he is instead of how I think he is. I cry out like Bartimaeus “Lord, I want to see!”

“Do you see things in your imagination?”

My imagination is not reliable.

"Also- pay attention to see if what you ask for is granted to you. "

When they’re not granted, it is not his will, game over.

“He communicates with us in so many different ways”

What ways?

 

[AKDee]

What ways?

Read the Saints and see how God chose to interact with them. If you’re not a huge reader, there are books out there that do 1 page summaries of each saint’s life that can give you an idea without making you read a whole book but if you like to read maybe you’d like the books. You might pick one that specifically has gone through the challenge you yourself are going through- for that matter, you might also ask that Saint to pray for you as you go through this. I tend to identify more with Saints that had challenges similar to mine.

 

[BobCatholic]

Read the Saints and see how God chose to interact with them. If you’re not a huge reader, there are books out there that do 1 page summaries of each saint’s life that can give you an idea without making you read a whole book but if you like to read maybe you’d like the books. You might pick one that specifically has gone through the challenge you yourself are going through- for that matter, you might also ask that Saint to pray for you as you go through this. I tend to identify more with Saints that had challenges similar to mine.

I have read the lives of the saints. Most notably the Diary of St. Faustina. Jesus appeared to her and made his presence felt. I wish I had that kind of relationship with God, but I’ll never have that in this lifetime - that’s the thing I have to get thorough my stubborn, thick skull.

 

[AKDee]

Well, only God knows what He will and will not grant you - it may be that your yearning will cause Him to give you what you most desire in time. But each one of us is granted difference graces. Instead of being saddened about what you do not have, try focusing on what you do have.

Be thankful for being led (or born into, whichever it is) to Christ’s true Church on earth. Be thankful for your baptism and confirmation. Be thankful for the 7 sacraments. Be thankful for the True Presence. Be thankful for Eucharist Adoration. Be thankful for Holy Scripture. Be thankful for the Angels and Saints and that they can and do pray for you. Be thankful for the Holy Souls in Purgatory and the opportunity to pray for them and that they can pray for you. Be thankful for answered prayer, and for miracles, and for the fact that God lets us approach Him in prayer at all. Be thankful for creation and that God created you and loves you. Be thankful for the graces you have and those you are seeking to grow in. Be thankful that you are as far along on your spiritual journey as you are- there are billions of people on this planet who do not know or believe in Jesus Christ and don’t have many of these things. You are truly blessed.

 

[Sunbreak]

If you are expecting a visionary experience, that probably is not going to happen. If you look at the lives of people who have had these experiences, you will see that most of them were selected to do something specific - they were not being given this experience for their own sakes. The rest of us just have to do the best we can to make decisions in our lives. God can speak to us in many ways - not just some direct voice but it could be that your answer comes to you in something you read in a book or maybe something that is mentioned in a homily or even something the local garbage man says to you. The point is, it doesn’t have to be a direct one on one conversation.

 

[eazyduzit]

youtube.com/watch?v=8czdKN4U0hc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I have to give up on the idea that God will talk to me directly.

I have to give up on the idea that God will talk to me indirectly through a mystic.

I have to give up on the idea that God will talk to me. Period.

This is a hard teaching. Very hard. And very depressing, which is my point.

How can one have a personal relationship with God if there is no communication (two way) whatsoever?

Prayer is only a monologue. There is no way to have two-way communication with God. There’s no way for me to connect with God.

I recall a story by Jeff Cavins. He was 9, and bullies talked him into climbing to the roof of a house, and then took the ladder away, causing him to be trapped on the roof. He yelled out “DAAAD” and his dad came running to his rescue. The bullies scattered and he was rescued.

I want desperately that kind of relationship with our Heavenly Father.

But I’m trapped on the roof and never, ever can get down. No amount of yelling “DAAAD” will do anything. Prayer is only a monologue.

Game over.

I’ll just go back to my ordinary life. I’ll just try my best to stay out of mortal and venial sin and partake of the sacraments. I can’t make a difference. I can’t do anything good enough. I’ll never hear the voice of the Good Shepherd. I’ll never connect with God.

When I die, I’ll either go to hell, or if I actually have God’s grace, I’ll stay in purgatory to be the last one out, and go to heaven to be in a room furthest away from God, and won’t get to see him. In the wedding feast, I’ll be the wallflower. There will be dancing in heaven, I’ll just watch from a distance. There will be great saints having the Beatific vision, I’ll just watch from a distance. This is the best I can hope for.

Either which way, there’s no hope for me to connect with God.

How’s it going Bob? I think your actually ahead of most folks because you have a great desire to hear God. That’s the first step. I share that with you and i’m trying to learn too. I know that God is speaking all the time but the trouble is we’re not tuned in. The biggest block to hearing God is western logic. You see, we need to open up our right brain functions which is the creative, imaginative side. Us men have trouble because we are naturally so left brain. Its just a matter of working on it to get the breakthrough. But there are certain techniques we need to learn and practice.

I would actually like to introduce you to a man who has a passion for teaching people to hear God. He says no one has ever failed to hear God’s voice who has learned his method. It is every believer’s right and duty to hear God. When Mark Virkler graduated from seminary and started pastoring a Pentecostal church, people would often say well, God told me… and eventually Mark started asking, okay well what does God’s voice sound like? And most would say, well you just know that you know. And Mark would think, well I don’t know so that doesn’t help me. He tried to hear God for himself in many ways but nothing worked. For 10 years God was virtually silent. But eventually he got a breakthrough and God gave him 4 keys to hearing His voice. I think you should just check this out and give i you my word that there is nothing at all anti-catholic in this.

youtube.com/watch?v=8czdKN4U0hc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

All the best,
Jerry

 

[e_c]

A mystic is anyone who communicates with God.

I have read the lives of the saints. Most notably the Diary of St. Faustina. Jesus appeared to her and made his presence felt. I wish I had that kind of relationship with God, but I’ll never have that in this lifetime - that’s the thing I have to get thorough my stubborn, thick skull.

Visionaries say we should not want to be visionaries and should prefer to stay in the silence and love being in the dark - for that is ultimate faith, hope, and charity. Visions don’t save us, those other graces do.

Bob - Combining this thread with your “lesser good is immoral” thread… You should consider seeing someone for help. You seem seriously depressed, to the point of irrationality and desperation.

 

[eazyduzit]

Here is the second viidio I would recommend.
youtube.com/watch?v=jzK2FgnJy8A&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I know you are very fearful and suspect of anything that does not come with official CC approval, but what would you think if Mark got the basis of his 4 keys from 2 Catholic charismatic priests at a Catholic retreat center on Long island? Still fearful?

Shalom,
Jerry

 

[eazyduzit]

A mystic is anyone who communicates with God.

Visionaries say we should not want to be visionaries and should prefer to stay in the silence and love being in the dark - for that is ultimate faith, hope, and charity. Visions don’t save us, those other graces do.

Bob - Combining this thread with your “lesser good is immoral” thread… You should consider seeing someone for help. You seem seriously depressed, to the point of irrationality and desperation.

Being desperate for God is not a sign of mental instability, it is something God puts in our heart. I have been depressed too, and Mark Virkler admits he would question if God was even real. He would backslide and Almost leave the church, but he couldn’t because he was the pastor and had to preach on Sunday.

 

[eazyduzit]

If you are expecting a visionary experience, that probably is not going to happen. If you look at the lives of people who have had these experiences, you will see that most of them were selected to do something specific - they were not being given this experience for their own sakes. The rest of us just have to do the best we can to make decisions in our lives. God can speak to us in many ways - not just some direct voice but it could be that your answer comes to you in something you read in a book or maybe something that is mentioned in a homily or even something the local garbage man says to you. The point is, it doesn’t have to be a direct one on one conversation.

God has selected EVERYONE he saves for a specific purpose that only they can do. The bible says the old men will dream dreams and the young men will see visions!!!