The most grevious sin today?

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mandateman

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I am infuriated with abortion and partial birth abortion being held up as reasonable by society. But as personal as these painful public sins can be I think that there is a worse sin much more pervasive in our church then abortion in society.

The sin I am referring to is worse then abortion or murder because it is an attack directly against the person of Christ. It is catholic lay persons who are technically guilty of mortal sins, or are excommunicated for believing heresy or having not attended confession for an entire year. The get up and go up to recieve Holy Communion not recognising the true presence of Christ or having so little understanding or concern for Our Blessed Lord they do not care about the sacrelige. People must be taught the rules and laws of our Church.

They need to know that it is a sin to go against church teaching, it is a heresy to refuse to believe any dogma and like not attending confession for a year it is ipso facto excommunication. That means when the fact exists that you have not attended confession for one year you are automatically excommunicated. That being true in my parish about half the people attending are no longer catholic.

People who arrive after the gospel or leave before the dismissal have not attended mass which is a mortal sin if you do not attend on Sunday and Holy Days of obligation. It is a sin to leave the church after the dismissal and before the final hymn is completed.

Recieving Holy Communion unworthily robs the world of the graces the people who are in a state of grace are earning. That is one of the chief reasons we seem so ineffective in a world that needs grace like we need air.
 
mandateman said:
People must be taught the rules and laws of our Church.

People who arrive after the gospel or leave before the dismissal have not attended mass which is a mortal sin if you do not attend on Sunday and Holy Days of obligation.

It is a sin to leave the church after the dismissal and before the final hymn is completed.
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Not that I don’t think these are bad, and not to defend them, but sin? Could you please cite for me where it says leaving early or arriving late is “a sin?” Over in the Ask an Apologist board, when questions arise about being late for Mass, the answer is given that there is no specific cutoff time. Used to be, but no longer.

Consider this situation: A person is on the way to Mass, leaves in plenty of time but there is a motor vehicle accident and traffic is held up for 20 minutes. Now, according to your theory, the person will sin for being late and also sin if they just turn around and go home to avoid that sin. What do they do then? Why would it matter if it’s a mortal sin either way? If that were the case, I’d just go home.
Recieving Holy Communion unworthily robs the world of the graces the people who are in a state of grace are earning. That is one of the chief reasons we seem so ineffective in a world that needs grace like we need air.
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Where are you getting this doctrine from? If I understand you correctly, if I go to Mass and worthily receive holy communion, I’m going to get LESS grace than I would if the fellow on the other side of the church in the 5th pew, third from the aisle hasn’t gone to confession in 15 months? I am not aware of such a doctrine. Can you cite your source for this also, please?
 
the sin Jesus himself condemns most strongly is that of persons with authority to teach who deliberately mislead the young and innocent and teach falsely, leading their charges into sin or otherwise misusing their authority to draw the “little ones” into sin. Many of those receiving communion unworthily are doing so because they have been told by a misguided priest, who under the umbrella of “being pastoral” has told them to go right ahead with their sin and receive anyway. It is a scandal for the Church that so many of those misguided Catholics also reach responsible positions in civil government.
 
mandateman said:
The sin I am referring to is worse then abortion or murder because it is an attack directly against the person of Christ. It is catholic lay persons who are technically guilty of mortal sins, or are excommunicated for believing heresy or having not attended confession for an entire year. The get up and go up to recieve Holy Communion not recognising the true presence of Christ or having so little understanding or concern for Our Blessed Lord they do not care about the sacrelige.
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Most of these people don’t realize that they are in a state of mortal sin. The great sin lies with their teachers who have not helped them form their consciences.
 
Most canon lawyers and other experts will tell you… the rule that you have to go to confession once a year strictly applies ONLY if you have mortal sins that need to be confessed in order for you to properly fulfill the “Easter duty” of receiving Communion at least once during the Lent or Easter seasons. (The whole concept of the Easter duty goes back to the Middle Ages when most Catholics presumed they were never or rarely worthy to receive the Eucharist at all, and had to be “forced” to receive at least once a year.)

So it is absolutely NOT true that a Catholic is “automatically excommunicated” for going more than a year without confession.

Now bear in mind, I don’t think it is a GOOD thing to go that long without confession. And in practice, there probably aren’t that many people who can go years without confession and also avoid commiting ANY mortal sins.

However, if you’re talking about the bare minimum required by law, once a year IF you are aware of having committed a mortal sin is the rule.
 
So let me make sure I understand this. Killing an unborn child is a bad thing but unauthorized eating of crackers in church is far far worse?
 
I think the most grevious sin is lack of true charity, which leads to everything else. True love for God and one’s fellow human beings would not allow for sacrilege, disobedience to God’s laws, and putting the salvation of others at risk. Jesus Himself gave us the greatest commandment, which is to love God with our whole heart, mind and soul, and love our neighbor as we love ourselves. If we truly followed His commandment, and loved in that way, we wouldn’t be in the state we are in. And we’ve been in that state since the fall.
 
cerad said:
So let me make sure I understand this.
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Nope, you definitely don’t understand! It’s a good thing you asked!

As long as you keep calling it a “cracker”, you really don’t understand! 😃
 
mandateman said:
I am infuriated with abortion and partial birth abortion being held up as reasonable by society. But as personal as these painful public sins can be I think that there is a worse sin much more pervasive in our church then abortion in society.

The sin I am referring to is worse then abortion or murder because it is an attack directly against the person of Christ. It is catholic lay persons who are technically guilty of mortal sins, or are excommunicated for believing heresy or having not attended confession for an entire year. The get up and go up to recieve Holy Communion not recognising the true presence of Christ or having so little understanding or concern for Our Blessed Lord they do not care about the sacrelige. People must be taught the rules and laws of our Church.

They need to know that it is a sin to go against church teaching, it is a heresy to refuse to believe any dogma and like not attending confession for a year it is ipso facto excommunication. That means when the fact exists that you have not attended confession for one year you are automatically excommunicated. That being true in my parish about half the people attending are no longer catholic.

People who arrive after the gospel or leave before the dismissal have not attended mass which is a mortal sin if you do not attend on Sunday and Holy Days of obligation. It is a sin to leave the church after the dismissal and before the final hymn is completed.

Recieving Holy Communion unworthily robs the world of the graces the people who are in a state of grace are earning. That is one of the chief reasons we seem so ineffective in a world that needs grace like we need air.
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Forgive me for saying this but you obviously have no clue what the Church teaches. Much of what you stated is wrong.
 
cerad said:
So let me make sure I understand this. Killing an unborn child is a bad thing but unauthorized eating of crackers in church is far far worse?
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:rolleyes: Reading Jack Chick tracts, are we? Let’s be a little more respectful of Catholic beliefs, OK?

We believe in the real presence of our Lord in the Eucharist, as well as the Scripture. It is a serious matter to disrespect the Eucharist, for Catholics.
 
Mandateman: Forgive me but how do YOU know which parishoners go to confession and which do not? For those who do not, how do YOU know they need to go to confession? Remember confession is for mortal sin, not venial sins.

As far as arriving early/leaving “late”. It is acceptable to leave as soon as the “mass has ended let us go in peace to love and serve the lord and each other” has been declared. The final hymn finishing is irrelevant.

When sitting in church during Mass, I try not to make judgments about the other parishoners since I cannot see inside their minds into their souls. I think your post is out of line with catholic teaching.
 
When Saul was having the early Christians killed, Jesus asked him on the road to Damascus, “Why are you persecuting me?” Abortion is just as violent an act against Jesus as sacrilegious reception of the Eucharist. I have no idea why one would pit one against the other. And I have to agree with the poster who stated that much of the OP’s post is judgmental and non-factual…teachccd
 
teachccd said:
Which (by the definition of Mortal Sin found in the CCC) they’re not…teachccd
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Their particular sins might not be considered mortal since due to lack of knowledge, but I don’t think we can broadly say that people who routinely commits grave sins, don’t know church teaching, and only casually practice their faith, are all in a state of sanctifying grace, due to ignorance. Many of their souls could be in grave danger. We can’t assume that people are going to be okay just by leaving them to live in their ignorance.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
Their particular sins might not be considered mortal since due to lack of knowledge, but I don’t think we can broadly say that people who routinely commits grave sins, don’t know church teaching, and only casually practice their faith, are all in a state of sanctifying grace, due to ignorance. Many of their souls could be in grave danger. We can’t assume that people are going to be okay just by leaving them to live in their ignorance.
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I agree to the point where we let God be the judge. We are His instruments of loving guidance and not judgment…teachccd 🙂
 
I think the posts here prove my point that devotion and recognition of the sacredness of Holy Communion has been diminished. Direct sin against the person of God is more serious then sins against other humans. That is why the commandments have a heirarchy.

First three sins against God, next sin against the persons that represent God in our lives our parents then sin against others. The commandments were given in the order of importance.

If you come after the gospel or leave before the final dismissal you have missed mass. Missing mass without a justifiable reason is a mortal sin. One of the six precepts of the Church. You may not of heard of them. All rules in our church have exceptions. If for any reasonable reason one misses then it is not a sin at all. Or for a greater good.

No one has removed the laws you are just confusing that no one cares with no law exists.
 
mandateman said:
I think the posts here prove my point that devotion and recognition of the sacredness of Holy Communion has been diminished. Direct sin against the person of God is more serious then sins against other humans. That is why the commandments have a heirarchy.

First three sins against God, next sin against the persons that represent God in our lives our parents then sin against others. The commandments were given in the order of importance.

If you come after the gospel or leave before the final dismissal you have missed mass. Missing mass without a justifiable reason is a mortal sin. One of the six precepts of the Church. You may not of heard of them. All rules in our church have exceptions. If for any reasonable reason one misses then it is not a sin at all. Or for a greater good.

No one has removed the laws you are just confusing that no one cares with no law exists.
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I BEG YOUR PARDON!!! I have an extreme devotion to the Eucharist. Do not let your ignorance of my post lump me with those who do not have sincere devotion to the Eucharist. You did not even respond to my post so I will place it here again:

**When Saul was having the early Christians killed, Jesus asked him on the road to Damascus, “Why are you persecuting me?” Abortion is just as violent an act against Jesus as sacrilegious reception of the Eucharist. I have no idea why one would pit one against the other. And I have to agree with the poster who stated that much of the OP’s post is judgmental and non-factual…teachccd **

Jesus Himself said that the harm you do to others is directed at Him. What greater harm could there be to others than those killing the unborn? Open your eyes before making blanket statements and accusing me of a lax devotion to the Eucharist. It’s only your opinion that sacrilegious reception of the Eucharist is worse that killing the unborn but that is NOT what Jesus taught. For further reference see Matthew 25: 31-46…………………God bless………teachccd
 
puzzleannie said:
the sin Jesus himself condemns most strongly is that of persons with authority to teach who deliberately mislead the young and innocent and teach falsely, leading their charges into sin or otherwise misusing their authority to draw the “little ones” into sin.
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Agreed wholeheartedly. To those who teach falsely add those who fail to teach at all. A growing number of young people see nothing wrong with lying and adultery, for example. How can a culture remain healthy when its next generation doesn’t value something as foundational as honesty or fidelity?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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