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Milliardo
Guest
Well, I just bought Creative’s Zen Nano Plus, to test mp3 players before I buy the more expensive ones. Guess there’s no mp3 player thread yet, so I made one here…
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Nanor
Guest
ipod nearly every day
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MEP
Guest
I’ve wanted an iPod for many moons now, but I’ve yet to actually plunk down the heft chunk of change required to procure one. The new nanos are really really tempting though. I’ve played with them at my local Apple Store, and I can say without a shadow of doubt that if I had $200 just lying around, it would definitely go for a white 2GB iPod nano.
I’ve seen non-Apple mp3 players that are pretty cool (iRiver probably makes the best non-iPod players out there… though their hard drive based line is a little lacklustre). But honestly, the iPod really is the kind of the hill. Maybe it’s because I’m studying industrial design, but I can really see the clear benefits of the iPod’s interface in the daily use of the device and how it makes the use of the player nearly effortless. Plus, I wouldn’t use any online music service other than iTunes right now.
Subscription based services sound like a good idea until you realize that you lose all of your music as soon as you stop paying your dues. When I spend hundreds of dollars on CDs (which I haven’t done in a very long time), I have something to show for it. When I spend hundreds of dollars on iTunes tracks (which I haven’t done at all yet), I can keep them for as long as I want. When I spend hundreds of dollars on Napster, I get nothing for it in the long run. All that money is essentially wasted as soon as I decide to stop subscribing (or they inevitably go out of business). The online music distribution industry has to change because none of them are perfect (I’m not too fond of DRM technology since it is clearly junk science that doesn’t actually achieve it’s intended goal but does stand in the way of honest users getting the most from their music). But right now, Apple has the best formula.
People say that Apple locks users into their players and services, but right now they have the best players and services so I’m okay with that. FairPlay is easy to defeat too if Apple ever decides to get draconian about the whole thing (so is all DRM really, and no it’s not theft if I pay for the music that I strip the DRM from. Copyright law in this country has gotten out of hand and now betrays the original purpose for which it was written into law in the first place).
The only mp3 player I currently own is an iRiver IMP-350. It’s a CD-based player with great sound quality and excellent battery life. Good enough for now until I have the disposable income for an iPod-based replacement.
I’ve seen non-Apple mp3 players that are pretty cool (iRiver probably makes the best non-iPod players out there… though their hard drive based line is a little lacklustre). But honestly, the iPod really is the kind of the hill. Maybe it’s because I’m studying industrial design, but I can really see the clear benefits of the iPod’s interface in the daily use of the device and how it makes the use of the player nearly effortless. Plus, I wouldn’t use any online music service other than iTunes right now.
Subscription based services sound like a good idea until you realize that you lose all of your music as soon as you stop paying your dues. When I spend hundreds of dollars on CDs (which I haven’t done in a very long time), I have something to show for it. When I spend hundreds of dollars on iTunes tracks (which I haven’t done at all yet), I can keep them for as long as I want. When I spend hundreds of dollars on Napster, I get nothing for it in the long run. All that money is essentially wasted as soon as I decide to stop subscribing (or they inevitably go out of business). The online music distribution industry has to change because none of them are perfect (I’m not too fond of DRM technology since it is clearly junk science that doesn’t actually achieve it’s intended goal but does stand in the way of honest users getting the most from their music). But right now, Apple has the best formula.
People say that Apple locks users into their players and services, but right now they have the best players and services so I’m okay with that. FairPlay is easy to defeat too if Apple ever decides to get draconian about the whole thing (so is all DRM really, and no it’s not theft if I pay for the music that I strip the DRM from. Copyright law in this country has gotten out of hand and now betrays the original purpose for which it was written into law in the first place).
The only mp3 player I currently own is an iRiver IMP-350. It’s a CD-based player with great sound quality and excellent battery life. Good enough for now until I have the disposable income for an iPod-based replacement.
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Forest-Pine
Guest
I get my MP3s at a Russian website. Instead of charging by song, they charge by mega-byte. The currency exchange works out to be like 8 or 10 cents per song. I feel good knowing that I got them legally (royalties paid and company sound), while also not being gouged by the higher prices at some more well-known sites.
I currently have about 2000 songs (7.5 GB). I play them on the laptop as I cannot yet afford a Zen. (Although, they have changed much since I last looked. DH thought the Dell MP3 looked interesting.)
I currently have about 2000 songs (7.5 GB). I play them on the laptop as I cannot yet afford a Zen. (Although, they have changed much since I last looked. DH thought the Dell MP3 looked interesting.)
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soccerDad
Guest
The russian web site sounds interesting. I wonder if they buy their music legally?
I used to do alot of file sharing. It bothered my conscience, so I deleted it all. Now I’m looking, not only for decent on-line sources, but also for more acceptable music than the usual media feed I used to have.
I don’t have an iPod, but am interested. Not having used Apple at work or home, I am thinking it is not the right choice, especially if I want to use it as a file storage device for other software.
I used to do alot of file sharing. It bothered my conscience, so I deleted it all. Now I’m looking, not only for decent on-line sources, but also for more acceptable music than the usual media feed I used to have.
I don’t have an iPod, but am interested. Not having used Apple at work or home, I am thinking it is not the right choice, especially if I want to use it as a file storage device for other software.
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Edwin1961
Guest
Welcome to the Forums!
I’m on the New Napster and for $9.99 a month, I ‘rent’ the songs I want to download…if at a later date I want to ‘buy’ a song, $0.99
\I have the option.
All of my songs…almost 2700 of them are on my hard drive and I play them on my Windows Media Player.
Yeah, My conscience bothered me too, like you and I changed over to ‘renting’.
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Jenlyn
Guest
My husband is a big ipod fan. You can get it for windows or apple. itunes is the place to get the songs. 99 cents a song.
Check out the apple page to see what the new ipods can do. They are always improving. If you use cingular, you can get a phone that uses itunes. Very cool!
apple.com/itunes/
Check out the apple page to see what the new ipods can do. They are always improving. If you use cingular, you can get a phone that uses itunes. Very cool!
apple.com/itunes/
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Apostle_X
Guest
I’m hoping to get a 4GB iPod nano, color not mattering. Right now I have a Sony minidisc player, and I can’t stand it. If I get a new song I like, I download it and have to create a new disc or delete the one I’m using now. The whole process takes a while, so it’s rather annoying.
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awalt
Guest
I actually just switched from a Creative Zen to an iPod. The difference in the quality of the software on your desktop PC is astounding. Even though the user interface on the iPod is pretty snazzy, it’s not so much better than Creative that I would switch for that.
Other reasons I would switch, besides the desktop software being better:
Other reasons I would switch, besides the desktop software being better:
- If you are going to buy music, the iTunes music store has a great interface - easy to search, sample, get alerts on favorites, and more.
- The drivers for the iPod on the PC are much better also.
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wabrams
Guest
When I get the cash, I’m going to get a Dell Jukebox. I think the iPod’s are overrated; no way I’m paying a couple of hundred bucks for a 2 GB player when for the same money I can get 20GB.
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awalt
Guest
Those are two different products.
While you are right the Dell Mp3 is cheaper (it’s $249 less a $50 rebate), there is a 20GB iPod for $299. $100 difference.
While you are right the Dell Mp3 is cheaper (it’s $249 less a $50 rebate), there is a 20GB iPod for $299. $100 difference.
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wabrams
Guest
Yeah, $100 can be spent on some nice accessories for the Dell, including the car kit, nicer case, etc.
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Forest-Pine
Guest
They do. Here is a little blurb about their purchasing the copyrights:
Organizations like IFPI and the RIAA are doing their best to avoid any publicity when it comes to the legal services in Russia. There is a loophole in the Russian copyright legislation that makes services like AllofMP3 possible. Apparently this loophole cannot be closed easily. [Read more >>](http://www.museekster.com/allofmp3faq.htm#Will the RIAA or the IFPI have Allofnp3 closed down in the near future?)
The legal status of AllofMP3
Russian copyright legislation allows phonograms to be performed publicly without the authorization of the copyright owner for broadcasting and cable transmission. (Article 39) The Internet could be deemed to fall under this exemption. The copyrights involved have to be paid to a collecting society. This is the ‘loophole’ that is referred to in several articles on AllofMP3.
An English translation of the Russian copyright legislation can be found at www.copyrighter.ru
AllofMP3 has signed agreements for this with Russian Organization for Multimedia & Digital Systems (ROMS). According to license № ЛС-ЗМ-02-36 the Internet-project www.allofMP3.com, has the right to use musical compositions by providing downloads. Under the license agreement AllofMP3 pays out fees to ROMS for downloaded materials that are subject to the Russian Federation Copyright And Related Rights Law.
ROMS is a member of CISAC (www.cisac.org) - the International confederation of authors and composers societies. ROMS manages intellectual rights in the Russian Federation. All third party distributors licensed by ROMS are required to pay a portion of the revenue to the ROMS. ROMS in turn, is obligated to pay most of that money (aside from small portion it needs for operating expenses) to artists. Both Russian and foreign.
We have received this confirmation from ROMS:
I can confirm the legality of allofMP3.com You can legally buy/download mp3-songs from this site if it does not breaks the law the national legislation of the country in which you will be during that moment Sorry for my english.
Yours faithfully, the assistant to the lawyer of the Russian society on multimedia and to digital networks (ROMS) www.roms.ru.
Bahanets Roman Igorevich
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Forest-Pine
Guest
Now for the country that may well have the strictest rules on copyrights, the USA. A thread in the Fatwallet forums brings some light in his confusing subject. We will not bother you with all the details. Here is a concise version of the interesting parts:
*“MP3’s, OGG’s, etc are not illegal in the USA and therefore can be imported. There is also no law against importing music from other countries (including Russia). Because you are buying this legally in Russia and then importing to the USA, this should be 100% legit. For example, assuming that Russian Vodka is illegal to buy in the USA on Sunday, but you buy the Russian Vodka in Moscow on Sunday, then you import it into the USA, you have done nothing wrong. Again, this assumes that 1) it is illegal to buy Russian Vodka on Sunday in the USA 2) it is legal in Moscow and 3) it is legal to import Russian Vodka.” *
Title 17 Chapter 6 Sec. 602 of the U.S. Code covers “Infringing importation of copies or phonorecords”. You can find this title here
Subsection (a) tells us:
“Importation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords under section 106, actionable under section 501.”
So it’s illegal you may think. But take a close look at sub (a)(2):
“This subsection does not apply to importation, for the private use of the importer and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time, or by any person arriving from outside the United States with respect to copies or phonorecords forming part of such person’s personal baggage;”
If MP3’s, OGG’s etc are in fact considered phonorecords, U.S. citizens can legally buy these as long if they are for private use and not for distribution. If MP3s, OGG’s etc. are not considered phonorecords, no import laws apply. The sections of digital audio recording and sound recording have no mention of importation.
So in layman’s terms the bottom line of this discussion is:
Downloading from AllofMP3 is legal for U.S. Citizens, as long as the files are for private use and not for distribution.
*“MP3’s, OGG’s, etc are not illegal in the USA and therefore can be imported. There is also no law against importing music from other countries (including Russia). Because you are buying this legally in Russia and then importing to the USA, this should be 100% legit. For example, assuming that Russian Vodka is illegal to buy in the USA on Sunday, but you buy the Russian Vodka in Moscow on Sunday, then you import it into the USA, you have done nothing wrong. Again, this assumes that 1) it is illegal to buy Russian Vodka on Sunday in the USA 2) it is legal in Moscow and 3) it is legal to import Russian Vodka.” *
Title 17 Chapter 6 Sec. 602 of the U.S. Code covers “Infringing importation of copies or phonorecords”. You can find this title here
Subsection (a) tells us:
“Importation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords under section 106, actionable under section 501.”
So it’s illegal you may think. But take a close look at sub (a)(2):
“This subsection does not apply to importation, for the private use of the importer and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time, or by any person arriving from outside the United States with respect to copies or phonorecords forming part of such person’s personal baggage;”
If MP3’s, OGG’s etc are in fact considered phonorecords, U.S. citizens can legally buy these as long if they are for private use and not for distribution. If MP3s, OGG’s etc. are not considered phonorecords, no import laws apply. The sections of digital audio recording and sound recording have no mention of importation.
So in layman’s terms the bottom line of this discussion is:
Downloading from AllofMP3 is legal for U.S. Citizens, as long as the files are for private use and not for distribution.
J
JP_Augustine
Guest
I’m an avid Creative MP3 player guy (I’ve owned three myself, including the very cool Creative Media Center) and I agree about the Creative software…it’s not very good.
However, the great thing about Creative products is that they interface flawlessly with Windows Media Player, which is a very nice piece of software…
However, on the other hand, I think Creative products have some distinct advantages over iPods. The biggest one in my book is the ability to play WMA (Windows Media Audio) format. I’m kind of a techno-geek and I did quite a bit of research on the subject of compression formats. From a sonic standpoint, WMA is the best format out there, since it gives higher quality audio and smaller file sizes than MP3 or AAC format.
Another plus: you don’t have to deal with all the “rights” stuff that Apple bakes into their platform. The old “check in / check out” format that I understand Apple uses is kind of a pain.
Bought my fiancee’ a Creative Zen Nano and she loves it!
Just my 2 cents’…
JPA
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MEP
Guest
JP Augustine:
If you’re not buying your music online, but are instead ripping tracks from CDs (or downloading free ones – I won’t say where or how) than all players are created equal on the DRM issue.
Unless you plan to use the latest version of Windows when it is released and then even tracks you rip from your own CDs will have built-in DRM preventing you from sharing it with others (or easily transferring it to your MP3 player). Let’s see how that Creative Zen stacks up then.
Additionally, I wouldn’t use Windows Media Player under threat of death. Even when playing files that use windows specific formats, I always choose to use other players. WMP is just heinously designed, and a resource hog like nothing else.
Yeah, you just have to deal with all the “rights” stuff that MS bakes into their platform. DRM is a universal issue, it’s not just limited to iTunes. Using an iPod with iTunes is no less convenient than using a Creative Zen with any of the other online music sites. In fact, it’s usually a lot easier.
If you’re not buying your music online, but are instead ripping tracks from CDs (or downloading free ones – I won’t say where or how) than all players are created equal on the DRM issue.
Unless you plan to use the latest version of Windows when it is released and then even tracks you rip from your own CDs will have built-in DRM preventing you from sharing it with others (or easily transferring it to your MP3 player). Let’s see how that Creative Zen stacks up then.
Additionally, I wouldn’t use Windows Media Player under threat of death. Even when playing files that use windows specific formats, I always choose to use other players. WMP is just heinously designed, and a resource hog like nothing else.
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