The Multiverse Theory: False or Unprovable?

[Callin]

This is my first post in the philosophy forum, so my apologies if anything here seems out of whack.

Anyway, whenever I hear about the multiverse theory, I hear it being used to explain how there are infinite possible universes, thus the fact that ours is suitable for the existence of life and other things is nothing special. But one aspect of it keeps nagging at me, but I’ve never seen it brought up, so I’m putting it forward for criticism.

Hypothesis: The multiverse theory is either false or unprovable.

Conditional: Either it is possible for matter to be exchanged between different universes, or it is not. These two possibilities are mutually exclusive and exhaustive.

1. If it is not possible for matter to be exchanged or transferred between different universes, then1a) It is not possible for us to determine if universes other than our own exist, since it would be impossible to send a probe or anything into another universe and confirm its existence. Therefore, the multiverse theory is unprovable.
2. Or, if it IS possible for matter to be exchanged or transferred between different universes, then
   2a) By probability, or by one definition of the multiverse theory (that all universes are possible), then there exists at least one universe in which 1. matter is chaotic, destroying or eliminating everything that it comes into contact with, AND 2. the conditions exist for transferring matter to other universes. and it is constantly doing so, resulting in their destruction.

2b) By probability, at least one such universe should have transferred its matter to ours by now. Therefore, we should all be dead.

2c) Since we aren’t, the multiverse theory must be false.

I realize that there are lots of other factors that could affect the transfer of matter between universes, resulting in a much more complex version of the above. However, I think that if there really are infinite universes, then there should still be at least one which would have resulted in the events described in 2a-c, if transfer of matter is possible.

Opinions and criticism appreciated.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Suppose you could send information but not matter between universes. Then neither of your cases apply.

Edited to add: I guess technically the first case applies, but it seems that if information could be passed between universes, then the multiverse theory could be validated that way.

 

[James_S_Saint]

“Matter” is just a different form of information. The effect would be the same.

The hypothesis has a problem in that if an existence is truly unprovable, then it is false.

That might sound off mark to those unfamiliar with metaphysics, but for something to be said to exist, that something must be able to have effect. All things are only known by their effect, that is how we categorize information and name “things”. We “prove” their existence by either logically deducing that there is no other choice or by witnessing their effect.

So if an alternate universe can be proven to be unprovable, then that universe truly does not exist at all.

Of all of the “possible” universes, only one can actually exist at a time. Thus the “probability” that you are considering an actual universe when thinking about the “possible universes” out of an infinite set, is 1/infinite = zero.

The whole issue of “possible worlds” is not actually about real existence. It is about imagining for the sake of creatively investigating and predicting society for sake of managing it. It is the thought of “going through each possible option” assuming that you don’t know something about the real world so that you can then learn your restrictions.

Regardless of the consideration of possible worlds, logic cannot be removed from any option else the entire endeavor is pointless. Thus each other possible world must be a logical construction. Despite ignorance to the contrary, logic is NOT a construct of our physical universe, but the other way around. Logic is about contradiction - in ANY universe.

In (2), you need to show your math for your proposed probabilities.

 

[Callin]

Suppose you could send information but not matter between universes. Then neither of your cases apply.

Information IS matter. There’s no form of communication today that isn’t caused by the movement or transfer of matter.

 

[Callin]

The hypothesis has a problem in that if an existence is truly unprovable, then it is false.

Makes sense the way you put it, that for all practical purposes, unprovability = nonexistence.

In (2), you need to show your math for your proposed probabilities.

Eh.

How about X% of infinity, which means that the number of qualifying universes is also infinitely large, which should be big enough.

The rest of your post was way over my head. I couldn’t figure out if you agree, disagree, or went off on a semi-random tangent.

 

[James_S_Saint]

Information IS matter. There’s no form of communication today that isn’t caused by the movement or transfer of matter.

IF you accept that energy is another form of matter, which isn’t exactly true. Matter is one form of energy. Energy and information are interchangeable terms as long as you aren’t talking about “data bits”.

 

[Callin]

IF you accept that energy is another form of matter, which isn’t exactly true. Matter is one form of energy. Energy and information are interchangeable terms as long as you aren’t talking about “data bits”.

Would it be more clear if I simply said “stuff” instead of “matter”?

So if matter if just one form of energy, what other forms are there? Aren’t the smallest known particles considered matter? Or do you mean antimatter?

 

[Just_Lurking]

From Wikipedia (see here):

Deutsch has also proposed that when reversible computers become conscious that MWI will be testable (at least against “naive” Copenhagenism) via the reversible observation of spin.[26]

Clearly, the reversible observation of spin can result in the communication of information, by mapping -1/2 spin to the zero bit and +1/2 spin to the one bit. I don’t see how it can result in matter transfer though.

 

[James_S_Saint]

So if matter if just one form of energy, what other forms are there? Aren’t the smallest known particles considered matter? Or do you mean antimatter?

Actually I was thinking of radiant and pre-radiant forms.

 

[herbalist_micke]

I’m not sure what you mean by pre-radiant energy. Does this include forms such as kinetic?

 

[stevekehl]

The proof is dubious. The motivation for the hypothesis is desperation.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

This is my first post in the philosophy forum, so my apologies if anything here seems out of whack.

Anyway, whenever I hear about the multiverse theory, I hear it being used to explain how there are infinite possible universes, thus the fact that ours is suitable for the existence of life and other things is nothing special. But one aspect of it keeps nagging at me, but I’ve never seen it brought up, so I’m putting it forward for criticism.

Hypothesis: The multiverse theory is either false or unprovable.

Conditional: Either it is possible for matter to be exchanged between different universes, or it is not. These two possibilities are mutually exclusive and exhaustive.

1. If it is not possible for matter to be exchanged or transferred between different universes, then1a) It is not possible for us to determine if universes other than our own exist, since it would be impossible to send a probe or anything into another universe and confirm its existence. Therefore, the multiverse theory is unprovable.
2. Or, if it IS possible for matter to be exchanged or transferred between different universes, then
   2a) By probability, or by one definition of the multiverse theory (that all universes are possible), then there exists at least one universe in which 1. matter is chaotic, destroying or eliminating everything that it comes into contact with, AND 2. the conditions exist for transferring matter to other universes. and it is constantly doing so, resulting in their destruction.

2b) By probability, at least one such universe should have transferred its matter to ours by now. Therefore, we should all be dead.

2c) Since we aren’t, the multiverse theory must be false.

I realize that there are lots of other factors that could affect the transfer of matter between universes, resulting in a much more complex version of the above. However, I think that if there really are infinite universes, then there should still be at least one which would have resulted in the events described in 2a-c, if transfer of matter is possible.

Opinions and criticism appreciated.

In all Probability this is pure science fiction, meaningless jibber jabber. We live in a real world. The outside chance of a wild speculation being true means nothing in our universe.

:hey_bud::hey_bud:

 

[buffalo]

Unprovable.

Consider that in the multiverse there are all possible universes including false universes.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

There is no need to get into philosophical debates about multiverse theories, given that the theory itself states that interactions between multiverses is not allowed. Since interactions between multiverse cannot occur, then it’s an unprovable theory.