The Music Question

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I’m not sure that’s right. It’s seems quite clear in canon law and other places that the parish is primarily entrusted to the pastor (see §532, §536.2).
Yes, I can see that the parish is entrusted to the pastor, but if the pastor entrusted a musical director, then we are still to work with the music director in matters of music, right? When we parishioners reject the music director and try to overrule them by going to the Priest, isn’t this like trying to divide mom & dad on the bed time?
 
the Parish’s Liturgy Director (is it strange that this is not the priest or is this very common today?) who informed me that they would be sticking to Breaking Bread because as she put it, “Breaking Bread is updated annually to meet the changing needs of today’s Church.
(emphasis is mine)
LOL, I just looked up this publication on ocp.org and look at the words I found!

[edited] OCP pushes the worst dreck you can find and calls it “liturgical music”. Our parish is cursed with “Flor y Canto” with really insipid words and music! God help us all out of this valley of death known as bad doctrine and poor taste.
 
(emphasis is mine)
LOL, I just looked up this publication on ocp.org and look at the words I found!

[edited]. OCP pushes the worst dreck you can find and calls it “liturgical music”. Our parish is cursed with “Flor y Canto” with really insipid words and music! God help us all out of this valley of death known as bad doctrine and poor taste.
Lol, great find! It makes me think that these books get shipped with an excuse for parishioners that complain.
 
Yes, I can see that the parish is entrusted to the pastor, but if the pastor entrusted a musical director, then we are still to work with the music director in matters of music, right? When we parishioners reject the music director and try to overrule them by going to the Priest, isn’t this like trying to divide mom & dad on the bed time?
The bad music undermines the Vatican’s wishes.
 
Yes, I can see that the parish is entrusted to the pastor, but if the pastor entrusted a musical director, then we are still to work with the music director in matters of music, right? When we parishioners reject the music director and try to overrule them by going to the Priest, isn’t this like trying to divide mom & dad on the bed time?
not really… the MD should be reporting to and working with the pastor and his wishes anyways. It’s more like a kid letting his parents know when the babysitter went against the parent’s direct wishes. The babysitter (MD) works at the pleasure of and under the direct authority of the pastor.
 
As has been stated many times, the music during the liturgy should not be subject to the whims of the parishoners, music director, etc. The music should be dignified and in good standing with tradition.You know good music when you hear it.
If the music director works for the parish, the pastor is ultimately approving his or her choices. And various people probably have differing ideas of what constitutes good music.
 
If the music director works for the parish, the pastor is ultimately approving his or her choices. And various people probably have differing ideas of what constitutes good music.
“On the one hand, there is the music that Plato ascribes, in line with mythology, to Apollo, the god of light and reason. This is the music that draws senses into spirit and so brings man to wholeness. It does not abolish the senses, but inserts them into the unity of this creature that is man. It elevates the spirit precisely by wedding it to the senses, and it el*evates the senses by uniting them with the spirit. Thus this kind of music is an expression of man’s special place in the general structure of being.”

Excerpted from The Spirit of the Liturgy.

If your music produces a false sense of catharsis, exuberance, is high strung, highly emotional, etc., then it probably is not the kind of music you want for the liturgy. Liturgical music is temperate and serves to lift our senses, but not in a highly emotional (i.e. inebriated) manner.
 
“On the one hand, there is the music that Plato ascribes, in line with mythology, to Apollo, the god of light and reason. This is the music that draws senses into spirit and so brings man to wholeness. It does not abolish the senses, but inserts them into the unity of this creature that is man. It elevates the spirit precisely by wedding it to the senses, and it el*evates the senses by uniting them with the spirit. Thus this kind of music is an expression of man’s special place in the general structure of being.”

Excerpted from The Spirit of the Liturgy.

If your music produces a false sense of catharsis, exuberance, is high strung, highly emotional, etc., then it probably is not the kind of music you want for the liturgy. Liturgical music is temperate and serves to lift our senses, but not in a highly emotional (i.e. inebriated) manner.
This is far too subjective to be used as a guideline for liturgical music. Everyone will have a different reaction to various styles of music because of their background, culture, and upbringing.

I was raised in a Baptist church. I find Gospel music “temperate” and it definitely “lifts my senses.” I realize that many Catholics find Gospel “highly strung, highly emotional” because they were not raised the way I was.

And what exactly is “highly emotional?” I find myself emotional when Bach or Vierne or other great masters’ works are played on the organ, and I find myself in tears when certain traditional hymns are sung. Does this mean that these pieces/composers are inappropriate for Catholic liturgy?

And what exactly is a “false sense of catharsis?” If music makes you feel good, does that mean it is not appropriate for Catholic liturgy? I fear that many beautiful traditional pieces would be excluded from the Mass with this criteria.

My husband finds Bach “high strung” and “frantic.” Does this mean that Bach is inappropriate for Catholic liturgy?

These criteria are not measurable and therefore they are not appropriate guidelines for the appropriateness of Catholic liturgical music.

And pronouncing that “everyone recognizes good music” or some variation of this is simply too simplistic in this global day and age. (This is from another post.)

If one man (or woman) were given the absolute authority by the Church to judge “yay” or “nay” on each piece of music, then the measuring stick would be the man or the woman. Perhaps this is what some Catholics wish.

But this is not the case. Even the Holy Father does not have the time or expertise to judge each and every piece of music in the world. He gives guidelines to appropriate liturgical music, but that’s all he can do. He does not “ban” specific styles, pieces, or composers, but rather, leaves that task in the hands of the territorial authorities. We should do the same–allow our leaders to do their job and select our Mass music and pray that God will give them wisdom.

And IMO, rather than cringing and groaning in our souls when music is played that is not our personal preference, we should strive our utmost to understand each piece of music that we are given at Mass, and try to figure out why the music director or priest included this piece in the Mass liturgy. Ask, “What is God trying to tell me in this piece of music?” Also, we should strive to make each piece of music, even pieces that we personally don’t like, a personal act of worship to God and work to make sure that the music glorifies Him.
 
“On the one hand, there is the music that Plato ascribes, in line with mythology, to Apollo, the god of light and reason. This is the music that draws senses into spirit and so brings man to wholeness. It does not abolish the senses, but inserts them into the unity of this creature that is man. It elevates the spirit precisely by wedding it to the senses, and it el*evates the senses by uniting them with the spirit. Thus this kind of music is an expression of man’s special place in the general structure of being.”

Excerpted from The Spirit of the Liturgy.

If your music produces a false sense of catharsis, exuberance, is high strung, highly emotional, etc., then it probably is not the kind of music you want for the liturgy. Liturgical music is temperate and serves to lift our senses, but not in a highly emotional (i.e. inebriated) manner.
Depends what you mean by “inebriated manner”? If the pew-sitter is moved to wailing by the music, probably best if he/she moves to the cry room to compose themselves.
What is a “false sense of catharsis”? People pretending to have emotions?

Human beings have emotions. Emotions are a gift from God, are they not? The are a part of the whole person. Our faith should appeal to emotions as well as reason. We have all (I think) been touched emotionally by the Mass. Being overcome by tears is not uncommon at all. I tear up at some of the Gospels.
A good example: We sing a song on Good Friday that has a strong emotional impact. Jesus The Lord by Roc OConnor SJ.

Our choir was partly responsible for protestant having a conversion experience at Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve a few years ago. The music overwhelmed him with emotion. To be honest, the music is just a “collaborator” in his conversion, but that was THE moment, and emotions played a big role.
 
I did an audit of the average annual budget for OCP materials used at our four parish merge.
Depending upon whether you hit the three year accompaniment replacement costs for Breaking Bread and Unidos Missal, or the three year cycle for the same for the Unidos Hymnal, and the inevitable replacement of lost, stolen or worn Flor y cantos, we average between 15 to 20K per annum for these essentially disposable (because of licensing/copyright) issues. We’re paying for very little musical change, and save for the 3rd edition of the Missal, text changes in the seasonals.
Figuring out how much the paper costs only for enough 11x17, trifolded Music Ordos with ordinary, three options for each processional and whatever else, that cost is around $2650.00.

How much money do you want to throw into the dumpster per year?

We cannot purchase one hymnal, as there is not a one that could cover our needs, literally.

It’s not an easy solution. But the monopoly of the newsprint worship aide is soon to end.
 
The difference is between plain song and other types of song. The type of song that you tap your feet to, that makes you want to dance, and produces emotions like that, are very different from play song, which yes, can induce emotion, but it’s a very different kind of emotion.
 
I read an article last year that talked about how, in parishes that use their materials, OCP pretty much dictates the “pace” of the liturgy. Their materials are so integrated and semi-reliant upon each other that it becomes a sort of house of cards. Take away one piece of the OCP puzzle and your whole liturgy comes crashing down around you. That’s what they have many parishes duped into believing, especially those with well-meaning but poorly educated liturgists, liturgy directors, or–even worse–liturgy committees. They are a non-profit on paper only; believe you me, OCP is in business to make money.

I am not going to comment on the merits of any particular type of music, or its suitability for sacred liturgy. Others have already done that, and if you are of the variety who think that “Gather Us In” or “All Are Welcome” are what good liturgy is all about, I certainly won’t be able to change your mind.

I am fortunate enough to work as music director in a moderate-sized suburban parish, where I report directly to the pastor. There is no liturgist or liturgy director, although there is a volunteer lady who coordinates the servers, lectors, etc. She is also in charge of a small “liturgy” committee who meets a few times a year to discuss mostly the seasonal church decorations. Neither the pastor nor myself allow them to have any sway over musical decisions, not like they’ve ever tried anyway. Those are between Father and me. Currently we are using Breaking Bread (has been in place there for years before my arrival, apparently), and one of the first things my pastor told me when he hired me was that he would like to move toward a permanent hymnal. No arguments here! Looking to ditch Breaking Bread for good in 2013!

Exactly what will we go with? Hard to say. Might go with the new JourneySongs that’s coming out. Gotta have something at least somewhat blended and with a repertoire they’re used to. I am NOT a fan of the latest Gather, and the latest Worship is only marginally better; certainly not an improvement over the previous 3 editions. I will probably also send for a copy of People’s Mass Book, Vatican II Hymnal, and St. Michael Hymnal for review. Have great experience with the older (brown) PMB in a previous parish, and have heard great things about St. Michael and Vatican II.

Regardless, I cannot justify keeping fake hymnals in the pews. Permanent hymnals are so much more beautiful and dignified, and are more properly suited to sacred worship than newsprint bound in cardstock covers. As another poster so eloquently said, the Breaking Bread monopoly is about to end!
 
Music in our parish is handled by the “Liturgy Committee”, which is comprised of the directors of the three choirs and the head cantor, the Arts and Environment leader, the head usher, the person in charge of the altar servers, the person in charge of lectors and the person in charge of EMHC, who are all supervised/led by the Director of Liturgy, who reports to the priest. From what I was told, they all meet once every 1-3 months to discuss what goes on at Mass. I was also told that nobody else was allowed to join the meeting to express their opinions or views concerning the liturgy. Basically, I was put in my place. 😊
 
Music in our parish is handled by the “Liturgy Committee”, which is comprised of the directors of the three choirs and the head cantor, the Arts and Environment leader, the head usher, the person in charge of the altar servers, the person in charge of lectors and the person in charge of EMHC, who are all supervised/led by the Director of Liturgy, who reports to the priest. From what I was told, they all meet once every 1-3 months to discuss what goes on at Mass. I was also told that nobody else was allowed to join the meeting to express their opinions or views concerning the liturgy. Basically, I was put in my place. 😊
You would like to think that such a committee starts from Church documents and decides where to go from there rather than starting from what they want to do and like and just ignoring Church documents.
 
You would like to think that such a committee starts from Church documents and decides where to go from there rather than starting from what they want to do and like and just ignoring Church documents.
For God so loved the world that he sent a committee. :rolleyes
 
If it really is a concern for you then speak with the priest about it by booking a private appointment to see him and share why you are concerned and he may be able to help you work the issue through or consider a variety of music perhaps?
May be too that you could ask around the congregation to get their feelings on it. Making sure of course that your feelings are not given away in the questioning so that they are more likely to tell you what they think. If you think you are building up a good support in getting it changed then you can go back to the priest in charge and mention that you have spoken to others who seem to be ‘supportive’.

Hey I like Gratius suggestion best of all and learn to play the organ. It is never too late to learn and actually it might help you realise that they music being offered is easier to play and sing compared to the music you prefer as such. Failing to learn to play the organ, join the choir and that might help you to put a a step in with suggestions. One choir practice I even got to choose the specific tune through requesting it at choir though I later have realised, may be because the ‘leader’ was being so nice about it because the priest was in church at the same time though he was talking to an architecture about a building project so will have had no idea I guess at my request and why it was received so well… People are nice when the priest is around in our parish for some reason 🤷 I am just me whether the Priest is there or not as I have nothing to change for as he knows what really going off for me, so I don’t have to ‘hide’ anything how I am etc. What he gets is what he sees… but that going off topic somewhat.

I hope I haven’t suggested anything that has been suggested because haven’t read all the replies
 
Music in our parish is handled by the “Liturgy Committee”, which is comprised of the directors of the three choirs and the head cantor, the Arts and Environment leader, the head usher, the person in charge of the altar servers, the person in charge of lectors and the person in charge of EMHC, who are all supervised/led by the Director of Liturgy, who reports to the priest. From what I was told, they all meet once every 1-3 months to discuss what goes on at Mass. I was also told that nobody else was allowed to join the meeting to express their opinions or views concerning the liturgy. Basically, I was put in my place. 😊
Be careful about judging. 🙂

I know that often, groups become “closed” and this is indeed frustrating for those outside the group. If this is the case, talk to the priest, but I’ll warn you that trying to bust up the group will probably not have a good outcome.

Remember that when it comes to music, often it is most practical to have only a small group do the actual decision-making. Everyone has different ideas, and when too many musicians get involved in the planning, it becomes a cacaphony and nothing gets done and everyone’s valuable time is wasted.

When non-musicians are on the planning committee, sometimes they don’t understand what is involved in implementing certain musical styles or pieces. Musicians are usually very busy people (they have to do lots of things to earn enough money), and when they hear “new style” or “new piece,” they don’t think, “Wow, what a great way to praise the Lord!” Instead, they think, “Oh, no, more research, more time online searching for and ordering or printing off materials, more training, more practicing, and yet another night away from home at a rehearsal–and I won’t earn any extra money from any of it. Wonder what the wife and kids will say?”

They also are aware of the talent pool available, and they know whether or not something is actually feasible. Many musicians are not willing to implement something that they know will probably sound less-than-listenable because of the lack of people with the proper training and talent. And even though a lot of non-musicians will say, “I don’t care if it sounds great, I just want to hear it done!” when the time comes and they actually hear the sub-standard product, they often frown and say, “Hmm, maybe I don’t want to hear it after all.”

Music is a very personal subject, so please be gentle when trying to make reforms. It’s easy for people on all sides to be hurt. “Rit. and PP”–get it?! 😉
 
Until we can move on from the idea that music in the Mass is simply up to personal opinion, current and prior practices no matter how customary notwithstanding, nothing will change.
 
Some of you may find this article interesting.

crisismagazine.com/2012/catholic-music-its-time-to-stop-making-stuff-up

I use to attend the praise and worship Mass at my old church. The lead singer for the band would go into rock star mode. She did this even during the communion hymn. That was one of the reasons I left. I love contemporary Christian music, but it has it’s time and place. The music during communion should be reverent.
 
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