The Mystery of God. What the Kingdom of the Messiah is really like.

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I’d like to discuss the Kingdom’s PRESENT availability, to those who believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus made the Kingdom available during His first coming.

I’d like this conversation to start off small (like a mustard seed) so it doesn’t grow out of control to quickly. PLEASE, let us talk about the beginning of the Kingdom and not jump straight to Christ’s second coming and the full realization of the Kingdom.

I understand many of you don’t believe that the Kingdom is available NOW, after getting into some great conversations with people of many faith backgrounds. All are welcomed in the discussion, but let’s stay focussed at first.

Jesus revealed the Mystery of what the Kingdom of the Messiah would really be like to the apostles. (Matt 13:11) It would not be the physical, political, conquering power for which the Jewish leadership had hoped. The Messianic Kingdom would be an “interior” kingdom - the rule of an omnipotent Christ within the lives and hearts of men and women all over the world. For this reason, it would never be defeated or uprooted, as Daniel had foretold. Because it was a spiritual rule, no unbeliever would be able to enter it, as Zechariah stated.

So, let’s start with the parable of the Sower and the soil in (Matthew 13:3-23) The parable teaches that entrance to the Kingdom is open to all, but dependent on the personal reponse to the “word”. The public encounter with Jesus’ family confirms this. (Mat 12:50) In the Kingdom, what matters is no longer a holy bloodline, but doing “the will of my Father in Heaven”

Any comments?

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
Maybe I was being to long-winded.

Mt 5:3 **"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. **

Mt 5:10 "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 19:14 ** But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”**

Are these examples of people presently belonging to the kingdom while here on earth? I say yes!

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
To start, accepting Jesus as Messiah and the one who makes atonement for our sins, and praying to repent of sin and ask forgiveness. And also doing everything else Jesus taught to love God and others, helping them and making amends if you hurt them.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
To start, accepting Jesus as Messiah and the one who makes atonement for our sins, and praying to repent of sin and ask forgiveness. And also doing everything else Jesus taught to love God and others, helping them and making amends if you hurt them.
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Yes, I agree. Thank you for joining the conversation.

Do you believe that the kingdom is present spiritually?
 
ryanoneil said:
Yes, I agree. Thank you for joining the conversation.

Do you believe that the kingdom is present spiritually?
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Yes I think it begins for each person as soon as they realize it, it’s within you. Then like you say, the visible kingdom will be here later.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Yes I think it begins for each person as soon as they realize it, it’s within you.
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This is part of what I alluded to earlier. That entrance to the Kingdom is open to all, but dependent on a personal response to the “word”

Mat 13:19-23 *The seed sown on the path is the one who hears the word of the kingdom without understanding it, and the evil one comes and steals away what was sown in his heart. The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and receives it at once with joy. But he has no root and lasts only for a time. When some tribulation or persecution comes because of the word, he immediately falls away. The seed sown among thorns is the one who hears the word, but then worldly anxiety and the lure of riches choke the word and it bears no fruit. But the seed sown on rich soil is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and yields a hundred or sixty or thirtyfold." *
Then like you say, the visible kingdom will be here later.
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I’d like to talk about this in due time, but focus on the spiritual nature of the Kingdom for now.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
It saddens me when some christians say that the Kingdom is not here yet. Like the Kingdom is some geographical dominion like worldy kingdoms. Jesus is the Kingdom in person. He leads us to realize the fact that in him, God himself, is present among us. The kingdom is in us.

Mt 18:20 “For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
ryanoneil said:
It saddens me when some christians say that the Kingdom is not here yet. Like the Kingdom is some geographical dominion like worldy kingdoms. Jesus is the Kingdom in person. He leads us to realize the fact that in him, God himself, is present among us. The kingdom is in us.

Mt 18:20 “For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
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Sometimes I focus on one or the other part of the New Covenant and it causes confusion. There is the inner redemption of repenting through Jesus and doing what he taught, then the outer redemption when Jesus returns and finalized at the end after Judgment when sin and death are no more and God lives among men.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Sometimes I focus on one or the other part of the New Covenant and it causes confusion. There is the inner redemption of repenting through Jesus and doing what he taught, then the outer redemption when Jesus returns and finalized at the end after Judgment when sin and death are no more and God lives among men.
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I hear what you are saying. It will be a glorious day when sin and death are absolutely gone. The lines seem to be somewhat blurred though, between now and then. Sometimes when reading Scripture it’s hard to see the difference.

Rom 6:6-11 *We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin. For a dead person has been absolved from sin. If, then, we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has power over him. As to his death, he died to sin once and for all; as to his life, he lives for God. Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as (being) **dead to sin and living for God *in Christ Jesus.

Mt 28:20 *teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." *

Do you see what I mean?

Ryan 🙂
 
ryanoneil said:
Do you see what I mean?

Ryan 🙂
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Yeah, when I pray for strength I know I am more free of sin than not, for sure. When I drift away from God I start drinking, lusting, being resentful at people.

So it does work, even if sin is not completely gone yet.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Yeah, when I pray for strength I know I am more free of sin than not, for sure. When I drift away from God I start drinking, lusting, being resentful at people.

So it does work, even if sin is not completely gone yet.
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Yes!

Rom 6:12-14 Therefore, sin must not reign over your mortal bodies so that you obey their desires. And do not present the parts of your bodies to sin as weapons for wickedness, but present yourselves to God as raised from the dead to life and the parts of your bodies to God as weapons for righteousness. For sin is not to have any power over you, since you are not under the law but under grace.

Although it sometimes seems impossible, God offers us the grace to be completely free from sin. It’s as if being in such a state grace puts us in communion with the Kingdom where there is no sin and death. In a mystical way it seems that the Kingdom, so many of us look forward to, is availble to us now.

I wish I could express myself better and understand this mystery better.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
So what are we to make of this Scripture?

Mark 1:15 *“This is the time of fulfillment. The kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” *

Luke 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that (I) drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Luke 17:21 *Asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he said in reply, “The coming of the kingdom of God cannot be observed, and no one will announce, ‘Look, here it is,’ or, ‘There it is.’ For behold, the kingdom of God is among you.” *

I don’t think these are examples the Kingdom as it will be at the end of time. They do lend themselves to “interiority” of the Kingdom in us, but it seems to be more than that. It seems these passages refer to Jesus himself. And His actions, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, in the case to driving out demons.

This makes me think the Kingdom of God becomes present here and now, through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
That begs the question, Is Jesus and the Holy Spirit here with us now? I believe so!

Keeping in mind our different faith backgrounds, would you share your understanding of this question FaithofAbraham.

Thank you,

Ryan 🙂
 
ryanoneil said:
That begs the question, Is Jesus and the Holy Spirit here with us now? I believe so!

Keeping in mind our different faith backgrounds, would you share your understanding of this question FaithofAbraham.

Thank you,

Ryan 🙂
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Sorry,

Maybe that question is to pointed. Or to broad.

Peace,

Ryan
 
ryanoneil said:
That begs the question, Is Jesus and the Holy Spirit here with us now? I believe so!

Keeping in mind our different faith backgrounds, would you share your understanding of this question FaithofAbraham.

Thank you,

Ryan 🙂
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Sure I think God and Jesus see everything. God’s Spirit can be with us on different levels, depending on how much we sin and how much God wants us to know. I’ve had times when I tried really hard to utter a cuss word and I literally couldn’t form it in my mouth, I think God’s Spirit was so strong. Then other times I feel totally desolate especially when I won’t repent of some sinful practice like drinking or lusting.

That’s my experience.
 
ryanoneil said:
I’d like to discuss the Kingdom’s PRESENT availability, to those who believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus made the Kingdom available during His first coming.

I’d like this conversation to start off small (like a mustard seed) so it doesn’t grow out of control to quickly. PLEASE, let us talk about the beginning of the Kingdom and not jump straight to Christ’s second coming and the full realization of the Kingdom.

I understand many of you don’t believe that the Kingdom is available NOW, after getting into some great conversations with people of many faith backgrounds. All are welcomed in the discussion, but let’s stay focussed at first.

Jesus revealed the Mystery of what the Kingdom of the Messiah would really be like to the apostles. (Matt 13:11) It would not be the physical, political, conquering power for which the Jewish leadership had hoped. The Messianic Kingdom would be an “interior” kingdom - the rule of an omnipotent Christ within the lives and hearts of men and women all over the world. For this reason, it would never be defeated or uprooted, as Daniel had foretold. Because it was a spiritual rule, no unbeliever would be able to enter it, as Zechariah stated.

So, let’s start with the parable of the Sower and the soil in (Matthew 13:3-23) The parable teaches that entrance to the Kingdom is open to all, but dependent on the personal reponse to the “word”. The public encounter with Jesus’ family confirms this. (Mat 12:50) In the Kingdom, what matters is no longer a holy bloodline, but doing “the will of my Father in Heaven”

Any comments?

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
Click to expand...
I’m not familar with the “holy bloodline” terminology. Is this a reference to the preisthood or the entire people of Israel. As for doing the “will of my Father in heaven”, it seems that this implies some sort of action, such as perhaps obeying the moral commandments? It does not seem to require a belief that Jesus is God in order to gain acces
 
I think the begining of the Kingdom in the spirit starts when you accept Jesus as your Saviour. I think after death ( assuming you die in a state of Grace) is when both the Spiritual and Physicallity of the Kingdom become one, and you expierience God in all his Glory! God bless all of you.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Sure I think God and Jesus see everything. God’s Spirit can be with us on different levels, depending on how much we sin and how much God wants us to know. I’ve had times when I tried really hard to utter a cuss word and I literally couldn’t form it in my mouth, I think God’s Spirit was so strong. Then other times I feel totally desolate especially when I won’t repent of some sinful practice like drinking or lusting.

That’s my experience.
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Thank you for responding FaithofAbraham. I’ve had similair experiences myself.

The Spirit acting in our lives is spiritual. It seems to be “physical”, in a way, when our behavior and the way we act is affected. I’m trying to understand and develop this idea better.

Considering we have a good dialog, and hope I can get your opinion on some other ideas, as they come up.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
Valke2 said:
I’m not familar with the “holy bloodline” terminology. Is this a reference to the preisthood or the entire people of Israel.
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I’d say more a reference to people of Israel in Exodus 19. God made Israel his family in the covenant at Sinai. (A Holy Nation)
As for doing the “will of my Father in heaven”, it seems that this implies some sort of action, such as perhaps obeying the moral commandments?
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Yes, but not in the strict legal sense of the Torah. More the law within them, and write it upon their hearts sense. The golden calf affair complicated things.
It does not seem to require a belief that Jesus is God in order to gain acces
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For gentiles it would require the belief that Jesus is the Messiah “at least”. No Messiah and no blessing to the gentiles. Obviously we believe He was the Messiah and divine.

Genesis 22:17-18 I will bless you abundantly and make your descendants as countless as the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore; your descendants shall take possession of the gates of their enemies, and in your descendants all the nations of the earth shall find blessing–all this because you obeyed my command.’’

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
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