The Mystery of the Kingdom of God

[Sunflower15]

When I pray this mystery in the Rosary, I try to remember the biblical passages that relate to it. Jesus mentioned the Kingdom of God as being here already [even back then, when He was alive].

This confuses me a little, because at first glance, I would understand the Kingdom of God to occur after the second coming of Jesus, or at least after Pentecost [the coming of the Holy Spirit]…but He said it was already here…

Does anyone know what it means then? It sure doesn’t seem like we live in the kingdom of God…

.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make me heart as unto thine.

 

[thistle]

When I pray this mystery in the Rosary, I try to remember the biblical passages that relate to it. Jesus mentioned the Kingdom of God as being here already [even back then, when He was alive].

This confuses me a little, because at first glance, I would understand the Kingdom of God to occur after the second coming of Jesus, or at least after Pentecost [the coming of the Holy Spirit]…but He said it was already here…

Does anyone know what it means then? It sure doesn’t seem like we live in the kingdom of God…

.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make me heart as unto thine.

The third Luminous Mystery is the Proclamation of the Kingdom. That is the public ministry of Jesus, his preaching about the Kingdom of God.

 

[Lisa44]

I don’t know? To be honest, I don’t do the luminous mysteries. They don’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Sunflower,

The Kingdom God has started with Jesus and is being built every day. It is the victory of God over the Devil, which starts with the coming of Jesus and is being waged to ultimate victory.

If I cast out demons throught the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God is among you

.Matt.12,28

Questioned by the Pharisees about the time when Kingdom of God would arrive, He told them, “The coming of the Kingdom of God is not evident, and one cannot say, ‘Here it is! or there it is!’ For, behold the Kingdom of God is among you.”

Luke, 17, 20

In Acts, you the Kingdom of God is at the center of the apostles’ preaching as something that is present that is being built.

It is something most encouraging for a Christian to know, that every hour of every day he or she can contribute to the building of the Kingdom of God.

Verbum

 

[Verbum]

Hi Lisa,

To be honest, I don’t do the luminous mysteries. They don’t make a lot of sense to me.

What an extraordinary thing to say. These mysteries are about some of the most important events in the life of Jesus. John Paul introduced them in his encyclical on the Rosary, which you can read at vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html

Here is the pertinent passage :

I believe, however, that to bring out fully the Christological depth of the Rosary it would be suitable to make an addition to the traditional pattern which, while left to the freedom of individuals and communities, could broaden it to include the mysteries of Christ’s public ministry between his Baptism and his Passion. In the course of those mysteries we contemplate important aspects of the person of Christ as the definitive revelation of God. Declared the beloved Son of the Father at the Baptism in the Jordan, Christ is the one who announces the coming of the Kingdom, bears witness to it in his works and proclaims its demands. It is during the years of his public ministry that *the mystery of Christ is most evidently a mystery of light: *“While I am in the world, I am the light of the world” (Jn 9:5).

Consequently, for the Rosary to become more fully a “compendium of the Gospel”, it is fitting to add, following reflection on the Incarnation and the hidden life of Christ (the joyful mysteries) and before focusing on the sufferings of his Passion (the sorrowful mysteries) and the triumph of his Resurrection (the glorious mysteries), a meditation on certain particularly significant moments in his public ministry (the mysteries of light). This addition of these new mysteries, without prejudice to any essential aspect of the prayer’s traditional format, is meant to give it fresh life and to enkindle renewed interest in the Rosary’s place within Christian spirituality as a true doorway to the depths of the Heart of Christ, ocean of joy and of light, of suffering and of glory.

I am quite sure you will change yor mind on this matter.

Verbum

 

[Sunflower15]

I don’t know? To be honest, I don’t do the luminous mysteries. They don’t make a lot of sense to me.

Really? They are my favorite! [though they ALL are very dear to me!]

The Eucharist makes no sense to you? [the 5th one]

 

[Sunflower15]

By any chance, does anyone else think the parables of the “mustard seed” and the “leaven that the woman puts into the bread” have some meaning in regards to the kingdom of God as present in us?

I keep thinking of those when praying that mystery…

 

[garcia718]

The pamphlet that I am using to learn the rosary only has the joyful, sorrowful, and glorius mysteries. There are no luminous mysteries listed.

 

[Sunflower15]

The pamphlet that I am using to learn the rosary only has the joyful, sorrowful, and glorius mysteries. There are no luminous mysteries listed.

EWTN has them online…

JPII revived the old tradition of these mysteries that had been in disuse for a while…some of the published material prior to this “re-introduction” may not include them…they are beautiful!

1. the Baptism of the Lord in the Jordan
2. the 1st Miracle at the Wedding in Cana
3. the Kingdom of God among us
4. the Transfiguration of the Lord
5. the Institution of the Eucharist

 

[Lisa44]

Hi Lisa,

To be honest, I don’t do the luminous mysteries. They don’t make a lot of sense to me.

What an extraordinary thing to say. These mysteries are about some of the most important events in the life of Jesus. John Paul introduced them in his encyclical on the Rosary, which you can read at vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html

Here is the pertinent passage :

I am quite sure you will change yor mind on this matter.

Verbum

Hi Verbum
Yes…perhaps.

“But it was only in the year 1214, however, that Holy Mother Church recieved the Rosary in its present form and according to the method we use today. It was given to the Church by Saint Dominic **who had received it from the Blessed Virgin **as a powerful means of converting the Albigensians and other sinners.” St Louis De Montfort. The Secret of the Rosary.

Do you really think, for even one instant, that the Virgin Mary didn’t know what she was doing?
Is it actually concievable that the Mother of God, gave us an incomplete prayer?

In my mind, it is inconceivable that the Holy Mother of God gave us an incomplete prayer.
Who can understand why she gave us 15 decades? And not 20?

Who can say 15 decades is not enough?

I cannot nor will I, ever. Because if I believe, and I do, that the Rosary was given to Saint Dominic by the Mother of God, then FAR BE IT FROM me to suggest it is not perfect already.

 

[Sunflower15]

Hi Verbum
Yes…perhaps.

“But it was only in the year 1214, however, that Holy Mother Church recieved the Rosary in its present form and according to the method we use today. It was given to the Church by Saint Dominic **who had received it from the Blessed Virgin **as a powerful means of converting the Albigensians and other sinners.” St Louis De Montfort. The Secret of the Rosary.

Do you really think, for even one instant, that the Virgin Mary didn’t know what she was doing?
Is it actually concievable that the Mother of God, gave us an incomplete prayer?

In my mind, it is inconceivable that the Holy Mother of God gave us an incomplete prayer.
Who can understand why she gave us 15 decades? And not 20?

Who can say 15 decades is not enough?

I cannot nor will I, ever. Because if I believe, and I do, that the Rosary was given to Saint Dominic by the Mother of God, then FAR BE IT FROM me to suggest it is not perfect already.

I wasn’t there…but I read that the reason for JPII [a very good source…] to re-institute it as it is now [20], was that originally it was…but some felt it was too long and shortened it.

I don’t know for sure that St. Dominic didn’t get all 20 and his followers only prayed 15 [down the line after time]…

I doubt that adding the mysteries of Jesus’ Baptism, Jesus’ 1st Miracle [which Mary sort of suggested], Jesus’ preaching about the Kingdom of God, Jesus’ Transfiguration, and finally, Jesus’ Institution of His gift in the Eucharist could POSSIBLY or CONCEIVABLY be offensive to Mary in ANY way…

However, it is a Grace, and there is absolutely NO obligation to anyone to accept a Grace, particularly when it is the result of a private revelation [by Our Lady in this case].

So, it’s ok to choose not to accept this gift, as with any other…

The other 15 are wonderful as well…some people choose not to even pray those…for reasons I will never understand.

Too bad you probably don’t pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet either, as it is more recent, certainly not from prior to the year 1214!

 

[Verbum]

Hi Lisa,

Because if I believe, and I do, that the Rosary was given to Saint Dominic by the Mother of God, then FAR BE IT FROM me to suggest it is not perfect already.

The Rosary as revived by St. Dominic did not exist in its present form. Rather there was a thought for each bead. The reason the present form was adopted is explained at rosarycreations.com/scriptural_rosary_history.htm

Here is a pertinent paragraph:

The abandonment of the medieval Rosary form, the form which provided a special thought for each Hail Mary bead, came about in this manner: In about 1500 it became possible to reproduce woodcut picture prints inexpensively for the first time. Since the vast majority of people still could not read, these picture Rosaries became immediately popular. But since it was difficult and expensive to draw and print 150 different pictures, one for each Hail Mary thought in the medieval Rosary, the new picture Rosaries usually showed only fifteen pictures - one for each Our Father bead. At first the ten Hail Mary thoughts were printed around each Our Father picture. Perhaps the most beautiful picture Rosary of this sort was the one first published in Venice by Alberto da Castello, O.P., in 1521. But during the 166h and 17th centuries the use of the special Hail Mary thoughts gradually died out, and there remained only the fifteen brief Our Father thoughts which have survived as the Fifteen Mysteries we know today. (As an interesting historical footnote, the only place in the world where the old medieval Rosary with 150 Hail Mary thoughts is known to survive today is in the isolated little mountain village of Schrocken, high in the Vorarlberg Alps of Austria. Here the villagers still come together as they have since the Middle Ages to pray the Rosary the way it was once prayed throughout the Christian world.)

Are you relenting?

Verbum

 

[Lisa44]

To each his own.

 

[Sunflower15]

Now I want to go to Schrocken and pray the 150 different meditations!

How beautiful that these people kept the original prayer!

That explains a lot to me because frankly, I always wondered how come we don’t have the scene of Lazarus coming back from the dead! Not only because it is an amazing miracle but because it foreshadows our Resurrection!

I wonder if I can get online the 150 meditations…that would be wonderful!

 

[Todd_Easton]

When I pray this mystery in the Rosary, I try to remember the biblical passages that relate to it. Jesus mentioned the Kingdom of God as being here already [even back then, when He was alive].

This confuses me a little, because at first glance, I would understand the Kingdom of God to occur after the second coming of Jesus, or at least after Pentecost [the coming of the Holy Spirit]…but He said it was already here…

Does anyone know what it means then? It sure doesn’t seem like we live in the kingdom of God…

Perhaps the following definition, from the Glossary at the back of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, will be of some help:
KINGDOM OF GOD (OF HEAVEN):
The reign or rule of God: “the kingdom of God is…righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” (Rom 14:17). The Kingdom of God draws near in the coming of the Incarnate Word; it is announced in the Gospel; it is the messianic Kingdom, present in the person of Jesus, the Messiah; it remains in our midst in the Eucharist. Christ gave to his Apostles the work of proclaiming the Kingdom, and through the Holy Spirit forms his people into a priestly kingdom, the Church, in which the Kingdom of God is mysteriously present, for she is the seed and beginning of the Kingdom on earth. In the Lord’s Prayer (“Thy Kingdom come”) we pray for its final glorious appearance, when Christ will hand over the Kingdom to his Father (541-554, 709, 763, 2816, 2819).

 

[Lisa44]

Hi Lisa,

Because if I believe, and I do, that the Rosary was given to Saint Dominic by the Mother of God, then FAR BE IT FROM me to suggest it is not perfect already.

The Rosary as revived by St. Dominic did not exist in its present form. Rather there was a thought for each bead. The reason the present form was adopted is explained at rosarycreations.com/scriptural_rosary_history.htm

Here is a pertinent paragraph:

Are you relenting?

Verbum

Thank you for the quote. I did some reading on the history of the rosary, and also on the scriptural rosary. However, the debate about whether the rosary evolved only, or whether it was given by divine intervention doesn’t change my position. I believe that it was given by the Virgin Mary. The number 150 carries the tradition once again. To change that number to 200 makes no sense and its not traditional. Also, the mysteries are events and for instance the kingdom of God is hard to contemplate because its not an event.

In short, I just prefer to stick to tradition. So, no, I’m not relenting. Tradition and I prefer to leave divinely inspired things alone. Its safer that way. Its a safer route to Heaven in my opinion.

 

[ryanoneil]

By any chance, does anyone else think the parables of the “mustard seed” and the “leaven that the woman puts into the bread” have some meaning in regards to the kingdom of God as present in us?

I keep thinking of those when praying that mystery…

The parable of the Mustard Seed contrasts the size between the seed and the mature shrub. Jesus sows the kingdom in a small band of disciples, expecting it to grow into a worldwide Church. Birds represent Gentile nations and the gospel spreads to them and they are accepted into the Church.

While leaven is somtimes symbolic of evil in the world, it is positive in the parable of the yeast. At one level, leaven represents the grace of the kingdom that sanctifies the world through the Church. At the personal level, leaven is the individual Christian called to bring the gospel to those around him. Three measures is about 50 pounds of meal, which here symbolizes the world. The little leaven is hidden yet actively raises a significant amount of meal.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I think the Kingdom of God is both on earth and in heaven. The kingdom of God is spread upon the earth and men do not see it. The Kingdom of God is when men are good to each other, and follow the ways of Christ. The Kingdom of God is also when we are returned to Heaven to be reunited with God.

 

[Sunflower15]

I think the Kingdom of God is both on earth and in heaven. The kingdom of God is spread upon the earth and men do not see it. The Kingdom of God is when men are good to each other, and follow the ways of Christ. The Kingdom of God is also when we are returned to Heaven to be reunited with God.

I completely agree with you. Jesus said that “it is here”…
and he said it before the Last Supper, His death & resurrection…

I wondered if it had to do with the HS being in us, but I don’t know whether He already was or not…prior to Pentecost.

I just wonder, if this is the kingdom of the evil one, then how is it that His kingdom co-exists here as well…is it because He became incarnate? Since He came to the world? Sometimes John makes it sound like that a little…

I just think there is so much to meditate on in this mystery…and hardly anyone talks about it…

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I completely agree with you. Jesus said that “it is here”…
and he said it before the Last Supper, His death & resurrection…

I wondered if it had to do with the HS being in us, but I don’t know whether He already was or not…prior to Pentecost.

I just wonder, if this is the kingdom of the evil one, then how is it that His kingdom co-exists here as well…is it because He became incarnate? Since He came to the world? Sometimes John makes it sound like that a little…

I just think there is so much to meditate on in this mystery…and hardly anyone talks about it…

I don’t know why either, because Jesus really taught it that way.