The mystery of the Trinity

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Offdoodykcrn

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This is my first original thread and I’m a little nervous, but here goes…

A friend and I were discussing the Trinity. She said she was having trouble with the concept of how three seperate things could be one and liked my explanation, so I thought I would share it here and see what your thoughts might be.

There is a trinity of man: The mind, the body and the soul. They are all separate, yet together complete a singular human being. When one of those components is missing or damaged, it is evident.

A person with a dysfunctional or undeveloped mind is seen as mentally handicapped. The body functions to the ability the mind allows, but the soul is there and evident in the persons actions and attitudes. My friend with Downs Syndrome functions at a moderately high level, but she struggles with her limitations, but more so with the perceptions of other people. I have told her many times not to worry about how other people view and react to her because anyone that has spent more than 5 minutes with her can clearly see she has one of the kindest, sweetest souls on this earth. She is generous with not only her material things, but also her love and attention. Her response to that was, “How do I get those jerks to pay attention to me for 5 whole minutes?” I responded that everyone has a free will, so it’s up to them to chose that for themselves. Personally, I feel very sorry for anyone missing out on knowing her.

A person with a dysfunctional body is obvious: Stephen Hawking clearly has a remarkable mind, and the fact that he is willing to share his insights with the rest of us is surely evidence of a generous soul.

A person without a soul is thankfully more rare, but evident in sociopaths.
 
Offdoodykcrn said:
This is my first original thread and I’m a little nervous, but here goes…

A friend and I were discussing the Trinity. She said she was having trouble with the concept of how three seperate things could be one and liked my explanation, so I thought I would share it here and see what your thoughts might be.

There is a trinity of man: The mind, the body and the soul. They are all separate, yet together complete a singular human being. When one of those components is missing or damaged, it is evident.

A person with a dysfunctional or undeveloped mind is seen as mentally handicapped. The body functions to the ability the mind allows, but the soul is there and evident in the persons actions and attitudes. My friend with Downs Syndrome functions at a moderately high level, but she struggles with her limitations, but more so with the perceptions of other people. I have told her many times not to worry about how other people view and react to her because anyone that has spent more than 5 minutes with her can clearly see she has one of the kindest, sweetest souls on this earth. She is generous with not only her material things, but also her love and attention. Her response to that was, “How do I get those jerks to pay attention to me for 5 whole minutes?” I responded that everyone has a free will, so it’s up to them to chose that for themselves. Personally, I feel very sorry for anyone missing out on knowing her.

A person with a dysfunctional body is obvious: Stephen Hawking clearly has a remarkable mind, and the fact that he is willing to share his insights with the rest of us is surely evidence of a generous soul.

A person without a soul is thankfully more rare, but evident in sociopaths.
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Off,

This is a nice thought. I would have trouble with this since I see mind/body/soul as

Soul/Body…faculties of the Soul include intellect that you differentiate as mind that I would include as faculty of Soul…

Still a nice thought. I wish I could understand the Trinity or even explain it. It is a mystery. Sometimes there is just mystery.
 
CopticChristian said:
Off,

This is a nice thought. I would have trouble with this since I see mind/body/soul as

Soul/Body…faculties of the Soul include intellect that you differentiate as mind that I would include as faculty of Soul…

Still a nice thought. I wish I could understand the Trinity or even explain it. It is a mystery. Sometimes there is just mystery.
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Interesting - so you don’t believe the soul is separate from the organ called the brain (which is what I meant when I said ‘mind’. I suppose the brain (which I agree is the seat of intellect) is part of the body. I see a distinct difference between intellect and the soul. I see the soul manifested in intent - as how two different people might both look at a subject with the same ability to comprehend the same facts - with all the logic and reasoning that an advanced computer might, yet feel very differently about it. Maybe the nature of the soul is the mystery there.
 
I was told its the essence of the 3. But I look at it as first there is God and God sent His only Son through the Holy Spirit. So that right there is 3 in 1, the Trinity. Now some would argue if thats the case and we are all Gods children, then how is there a Trinity when there are billions of us. We humans are not begotten of God, only Christ. He is of the same spirit of God so God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are in fact 1 🙂
 
Offdoodykcrn said:
Interesting - so you don’t believe the soul is separate from the organ called the brain (which is what I meant when I said ‘mind’. I suppose the brain (which I agree is the seat of intellect) is part of the body. I see a distinct difference between intellect and the soul. I see the soul manifested in intent - as how two different people might both look at a subject with the same ability to comprehend the same facts - with all the logic and reasoning that an advanced computer might, yet feel very differently about it. Maybe the nature of the soul is the mystery there.
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Off,

Sometimes mystery is enough.🙂
 
All analogies for the Trinity ultimately fail at some point. Most often, they either fall into Modalism, or they fall into Tritheism. Usually what I tell people is not to find analogies for the Trinity, but to simply have an orthodox explanation of what the Trinity is (One Being of God with three co-equal, co-eternal but distinct Persons), and have a scriptural understanding of the biblical proofs for the Trinity and the distinction and unity of the Persons as seen in holy writ.
 
Keep in mind that - it is only a religious view.

So if you believe that a) there is a catholic god and b) that he had a jewish son and that you have a ‘soul’ then you could call it some sort of ‘trinity’ - but most religious have strange rituals and configurations - catholicism is no different. Don’t worry about it.
 
Terms and understanding are key here. three seperate things? Probably is not the best way to describe the trinity because we understand there being one “thing” one substance which is divine which is God, this is absolute. There is only one eternal absolute substance or essence and that is God. However there is not only one mind or person behind this substance but three eternal persons who are not the other.

The Trinity is foreign to people but after coming to understand the concept I do think anyone can understand it, provided they read the literature on the trinity. I’m not talking scholarly stuff, but basic stuff, CS Lewis, the creeds and etc.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Terms and understanding are key here. three seperate things? Probably is not the best way to describe the trinity because we understand there being one “thing” one substance which is divine which is God, this is absolute. There is only one eternal absolute substance or essence and that is God. However there is not only one mind or person behind this substance but three eternal persons who are not the other.

The Trinity is foreign to people but after coming to understand the concept I do think anyone can understand it, provided they read the literature on the trinity. I’m not talking scholarly stuff, but basic stuff, CS Lewis, the creeds and etc.
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I would not presume to think I could explain the Holy Trinity, nor was I trying to draw an analogy. I only meant to point out an observation of 3 distinct components that make a single unit - AKA - trinity. Maybe I should have started this thread in the Philosophy forum, but (maybe because I’m just an ‘almost catholic’) I tend to gravitate to this one.

I try to meet a daily goal of learning 3 new things. I’ll count this as one of them. :rolleyes:
 
If I may, I think there is a good analogy in Mathematics.

0 is the Origin. 1 is the Word. Infinity is between 0 and 1, on the Real number line there is an infinity of points between 0 and 1. All of this is completely contained in ONE, there is no mention of 2 or 3 or any other number.

So it seems to me this is a good analogy to God the Father as the Origin of All, including the Son (and, He also has no appearance, like 0); and God the Son, the One, the Word, who is manifest, the manifestation of the Father, and God the Holy Spirit, the Infinite Love that exists between the Father and the Son.

Just my two cents. Anybody like??
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
All analogies for the Trinity ultimately fail at some point. Most often, they either fall into Modalism, or they fall into Tritheism. Usually what I tell people is not to find analogies for the Trinity, but to simply have an orthodox explanation of what the Trinity is (One Being of God with three co-equal, co-eternal but distinct Persons), and have a scriptural understanding of the biblical proofs for the Trinity and the distinction and unity of the Persons as seen in holy writ.
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This is really wise. We human creatures can only understand a small portion of the mystery of the Trinity, and by attempting to fully understand we may actually understand less, or at least understand less correctly.

For me, one of the hardest things to do is to say to myself - “This is a mystery” and then be content with this. In this case, not only can we be content with the mystery, but we can rejoice in it - for if it truly is a mystery, then logically it lends credence to the claim that that God is the Trinity.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
All analogies for the Trinity ultimately fail at some point. Most often, they either fall into Modalism, or they fall into Tritheism. Usually what I tell people is not to find analogies for the Trinity, but to simply have an orthodox explanation of what the Trinity is (One Being of God with three co-equal, co-eternal but distinct Persons), and have a scriptural understanding of the biblical proofs for the Trinity and the distinction and unity of the Persons as seen in holy writ.
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I would completely agree
 
The Spanish mystic Blessed Ramon Llull once put forth this truly sweet idea that our grasping after God through the knowledge of our human intelligence is comparable to little children chasing after and trying to catch butterflies in a field. They find themselves unable to catch the insects and instead merely trample on the flowers beneath their feet. Llull then explained that God shows Himself to the simple in faith, not to the subtle, to the heart and not to the intellect which, while one should stretch it to the full through searching philosophical inquiry, one will eventually reach a dead-end when the door of knowledge closes and we must rest in unknowing, approaching God through “the window of love” to use Llull’s terminology.

I think that this is applicable to the mystery of the Incomprehensible Trinity in Unity of the Godhead.

I will quote it for you to read here. Try and picture it:
“…The Lover entered a delightful meadow, and saw in the meadow many children who were pursuing butterflies, and trampling down the flowers ; and, the more the children laboured to catch the butterflies, the higher did these fly. And the Lover, as he watched them, said: ‘Such are they who with subtle reasoning attempt to comprehend the Beloved, Who opens the doors to the simple and closes them to the subtle. And Faith reveals the secrets of the Beloved through the window of love.’…”
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***- Blessed Ramon Llull (1232 – ca. 1315), Spanish Catholic mystic & Franciscan tertiary ***
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Love4All said:
If I may, I think there is a good analogy in Mathematics.

0 is the Origin. 1 is the Word. Infinity is between 0 and 1, on the Real number line there is an infinity of points between 0 and 1. All of this is completely contained in ONE, there is no mention of 2 or 3 or any other number.

So it seems to me this is a good analogy to God the Father as the Origin of All, including the Son (and, He also has no appearance, like 0); and God the Son, the One, the Word, who is manifest, the manifestation of the Father, and God the Holy Spirit, the Infinite Love that exists between the Father and the Son.

Just my two cents. Anybody like??
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Math (anything beyond algebra) makes my head hurt, but my son is majoring in mathematics in college and says your equation is profound. He tried to explain it to me, but I begged him to stop before I had a stroke. It takes a LOT to impress my kid, so that alone earns my admiration. 👍
 
Offdoodykcrn said:
Math (anything beyond algebra) makes my head hurt, but my son is majoring in mathematics in college and says your equation is profound. He tried to explain it to me, but I begged him to stop before I had a stroke. It takes a LOT to impress my kid, so that alone earns my admiration. 👍
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Wow, thanks! Tell your son thanks. Glory to God!
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
All analogies for the Trinity ultimately fail at some point. Most often, they either fall into Modalism, or they fall into Tritheism. Usually what I tell people is not to find analogies for the Trinity, but to simply have an orthodox explanation of what the Trinity is (One Being of God with three co-equal, co-eternal but distinct Persons), and have a scriptural understanding of the biblical proofs for the Trinity and the distinction and unity of the Persons as seen in holy writ.
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I know Person is not defined in the same way as person and that the three Persons of the Trinity are not separate but are distinct. My question is what does “distinct” mean? Does it mean having distinctive functions?
 
I agree with Byzantine Wolf, analogies of the Trinity can be pulled apart and tend to fail at some point, however that being said I like the following analogy.
Take for example H2O the Chemical symbol of water. It can have three manifestations,
A solid i.e ICE. a liquade i.e WATER and a vapoure i.e STEAM these manifestations are completly distinct one from the other however they are all H2O, they all exsist at the same time, they can all be in one place together, they are completly distinct and seperate and yet thay are all the same.
 
Matt_Guitar_Man said:
I agree with Byzantine Wolf, analogies of the Trinity can be pulled apart and tend to fail at some point, however that being said I like the following analogy.
Take for example H2O the Chemical symbol of water. It can have three manifestations,
A solid i.e ICE. a liquade i.e WATER and a vapoure i.e STEAM these manifestations are completly distinct one from the other however they are all H2O, they all exsist at the same time, they can all be in one place together, they are completly distinct and seperate and yet thay are all the same.
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I used this example until I was corrected by Soren1 who posts on this forum from time to time:

“The water, ice, and steam analogy is wrong for most purposes. The only thing it is good for is the logical point that “one and three” is not automatically contradictory if “one” and “three” reckon according to different rationales. But as an account of how the persons in the Trinity are actually distinct it is totally wrong. There are not three forms of God, because God’s form is the same as his being.”
 
SteveVH said:
I used this example until I was corrected by Soren1 who posts on this forum from time to time:

“The water, ice, and steam analogy is wrong for most purposes. The only thing it is good for is the logical point that “one and three” is not automatically contradictory if “one” and “three” reckon according to different rationales. But as an account of how the persons in the Trinity are actually distinct it is totally wrong. There are not three forms of God, because God’s form is the same as his being.”
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Does that mean God is a man, and God is a voice in the clouds, and God is a dove, and God is tongues of flame? Does it mean God is bread and wine? Because from what I understand, God takes all of those forms, but is not contained in any of them, apart, perhaps from His form as a Man.
 
meltzerboy said:
I know Person is not defined in the same way as person and that the three Persons of the Trinity are not separate but are distinct. My question is what does “distinct” mean? Does it mean having distinctive functions?
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They are distinct in the sense that they do have functions unique to them, as seen throughout the New Testament. Most importantly, all these functions they do in the unity of the work of the Godhead - ie., the Son can’t outsmart the Father, and the Holy Spirit doesn’t have to second-guess what the Son is doing, etc.
 
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