The Myth of Muslim 72 Virgins

[morning_star777]

Even Jews?

My friend,when Muslims considered Jews as Human being?

 

[morning_star777]

Don’t many Muslims teach their children that Jews are apes and pigs? Whenever anyone makes another group seem less than human, it’s much easier to get others to do with them what you will, rather than as God wills.

Not many but almost all Muslims teach their children that Jews are apes and pig !It is really shame that Muslim parents spoil the brain of their children from the very beginning.

 

[inJESUS]

How sad! And disturbing!!

I also want to know what happens when the 72 virgins aren’t virgins anymore?

i read somewhere in the tafasir that they return virgins again and again and again…ask a psychologist about those who wrote these things…

 

[Jay53]

i read somewhere in the tafasir that they return virgins again and again and again…ask a psychologist about those who wrote these things…

Those poor women!! (And sorry if this is crude, but what if the men aren’t very ‘good’ - these women have to endure this over and over and over??? - or maybe in paradise all the men get perfect ‘skills’ too? )

 

[Thorwald]

When you start off wrong, as you do, it doesn’t get any closer to truth. The Bible isn’t the standard, nor does it teach it’s own truths. Anyone, including Satan can quote Scriptures as you do. However, do you know what they mean? Evidence is you do not.

What did Christ create as the pillar and bulwark of the truth? Was it the Bible or the Church? It is the Church. The Church teaches the truth of Oral and Written Tradition. By denying this, you come to false conclusions about Revelation, as well as other books.

You tell us you love Christ, yet your actions show differently. You reject Christ when you reject those He sent who are currently Bishops in the Catholic Church including the chief Bishop. You also reject His Church, which is His Bride. Do you really think He is pleased by this?

God has gone out of His way, in order to tell us that He is ‘The Word’. Jesus Christ came to witness the truth of ‘The Word’. Jesus Christ is the head of ‘His Church’, which is based on ‘The Word’ that was given unto the disciples/apostles. **‘The Word’ **is a set of instructions, wisdom, promises, etc., etc. How do you know who God is happy with, or not (ie. Bishops)? You have decided that you know these men’s minds and hearts.

Tell me my errors line by line, in what I wrote, that your response refers to. I simply quoted scripture. Tell me what lies I have told.
I am not trying to rip your beliefs apart. I am trying to stay with the scripture that I have, and I want proof before I accept another man’s understanding, of the same scripture. God is my Father in heaven too, and I’m getting different interpretations. If you believe that I am in error, show me the errors. I understand that there are riddles/parables/symbolism, but it appears to me, that the scripture also interprets these. Even in the case of the Pharoah, Joseph interpreted the dream. Why must I assume that everything that is difficult to understand or believe at face value, is buried in symbolism?

 

[Thorwald]

Well, I guess the same could be asked of you. Who anointed you to interpret it for us?

I have simply stated scripture as it is written in the Bible. The only interpretation I gave, was item #6. If those that are found worthy are sitting on the throne of God with Christ, then it makes sense, that those that are not, must have been saved, but not found worthy? Do you have a different view? Let me hear it.

We don’t doubt that you love God with all your heart or else you wouldn’t be so adamant about your position. But, not all Christians follow your interpretation.

Of course.

I think you might be a little happier if you ease up a bit. Stick with the subject. If you don’t know islam - do some reading.

faithfreedom.org has articles you can read. or answering-islam.org/

if you like reading the daily news of what is happening worldwide regarding islam/muslims - jihadwatch.org, jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch, and www.frontpagemag.com are a few to get you started.

We look forward to your contributions.

** I have spent over a year, searching the history of all major ‘one God’ religions. I have corresponded with Islam teachers as well. I asked one of them, if Mohammad had experienced Numbers 12:6. He told me that he didn’t know, but believed that Mohammad was in a trance-like state. He then told me that Numbers 12:6 wasn’t in the Quran (which I already knew, as I have an English copy of my own). I also receive many newspaper hi-lites on line, from different countries (including ‘faithfreedom’). I review them as I receive them, but thanks for the info.**

 

[MDK]

God has gone out of His way, in order to tell us that He is ‘The Word’. Jesus Christ came to witness the truth of ‘The Word’. Jesus Christ is the head of ‘His Church’, which is based on ‘The Word’ that was given unto the disciples/apostles. **‘The Word’ **is a set of instructions, wisdom, promises, etc., etc. How do you know who God is happy with, or not (ie. Bishops)? You have decided that you know these men’s minds and hearts.

Tell me my errors line by line, in what I wrote, that your response refers to. I simply quoted scripture. Tell me what lies I have told.
I am not trying to rip your beliefs apart. I am trying to stay with the scripture that I have, and I want proof before I accept another man’s understanding, of the same scripture. God is my Father in heaven too, and I’m getting different interpretations. If you believe that I am in error, show me the errors. I understand that there are riddles/parables/symbolism, but it appears to me, that the scripture also interprets these. Even in the case of the Pharoah, Joseph interpreted the dream. Why must I assume that everything that is difficult to understand or believe at face value, is buried in symbolism?

Yes, God is your Father as He is mine. I choose to seek to obey what He established. You seem to seek to decide who God is on your own, and so get it wrong.

If you believe the Church is built only on the written word or even only the spoken word, you are gravely in error as well. The Church is built by Christ to be His Body, His Bride. The Church on earth has as its visible head, the Vicar of Christ as established by Christ. The Church wrote Scriptures and protects them. However, the Eucharist is the source and summit of Christian life.

You don’t stop there; you also misinterpret me as well… I never said God was happy with the Bishops. So, this is one error of yours as well. I said that **God is probably not happy with you not listening to the Bishops **who are the ones Christ sent into the world. This is how you are in error in general and allows you to generate more errors as you base interpretations on false premises.

We (you, I and all the rest of us humans) are called to listen to His Bishops in union with the Prime Minister of the King. This is how we know without error God’s revealed truth.

**When you deny the teaching authority of the Church in the Magisterium, you are in error.

When you teach in opposition to the Church, you are in error.

When you deny or distort Christ’s real and true presence in the Eucharist, you are in error. **

**‘The Word’ **is not simply a set of instructions, wisdom, promises, etc. **The Word is God. **

Christ came to give witness to the Truth. He is the Truth. Do you not understand this?

See, the more you write, the more you illustrate my point… you don’t understand what God revealed. Your errors first begin with your idea of who God is and how we understand Him. From there, you become an error creating individual with no one to infallibly guide you to the truth…. Since you don’t understand God’s revealed truth without error, you then argue with those who do subscribe to teachings God has protected using the means He established for protecting His teachings.

My beliefs were given by Christ, and have been taught faithfully for almost 2000 years, despite heretics and those who attack the Church.

 

[MDK]

** I have spent over a year, searching the history of all major ‘one God’ religions. I have corresponded with Islam teachers as well. I asked one of them, if Mohammad had experienced Numbers 12:6. He told me that he didn’t know, but believed that Mohammad was in a trance-like state. He then told me that Numbers 12:6 wasn’t in the Quran (which I already knew, as I have an English copy of my own). I also receive many newspaper hi-lites on line, from different countries (including ‘faithfreedom’). I review them as I receive them, but thanks for the info.**

What was really being said was that you had no authority to interpret Scriptures without error. This is a very true statement. You are not a qualified Theologian or Christian Scholar in the proper sense. We ask that you please listen to those who are qualified and protected from teaching error in faith and morals. You would do much better, and likely have a much better walk with Christ.

 

[MDK]

i read somewhere in the tafasir that they return virgins again and again and again…ask a psychologist about those who wrote these things…

This is a key point… one needs to look at the health of the person who wrote such a thing. It certainly was not of God.

 

[MDK]

Getting this thread back on topic:

Why seventy-two virgins? Is there is a mystical significence to the number seventy-two, or dose it represent “a great number” of virgins?

For example, in the Bible the number one thousand means “a great number”, too many to count. Is seventy-two like this, or is there a mystical symbolism to the number, or is it just the number of virgins Allah has promised? Or is it just a number?

Could it have just been a misunderstanding? Given the Mohammad’s lust for women, perhaps he was saying “save me some too” and the scribe wrote it down as seventy-two. (Okay, I know this only works in English.)

 

[eichenb2]

Can someone explain to me, how God could possibly agree to defiling the holiest place of all (heaven), by turning it into a common whorehouse in order to reward murderers of His sheep?

You are bringing a few misunderstandings and prejudices to your question. Fairness and justice, even when dealing with those you disagree with is a moral necessity. If your question is about the common belief that 72 virgins are given to Martyr’s in heaven, I will attempt to answer. There are varying reports of companionship in Heaven for the believers in the Qur’an and Hadeeth. Martyrs are, specifically, mentioned as getting higher rewards. These descriptions given are not necessarily to be taken literally. How an individual Muslim understands them will change based on time and place. Don’t get me wrong. They ALL are supposed to believe them as true, but also that that they cannot fully perceive the joys in this earthly life. One must understand that to a Muslim, this life is a prison whereing they are tested and required to submit to all kinds of religious legalism. Patience and perserverance on this will be rewarded with everlasting paradise, where are the sensual desires of this world (that they restrained from) will be given to them. Indulgence in these heavenly delights will no longer be sinful. Muhammad is reported to have said that he was made to love 3 things from this world, Prayer, Good Scent (perfume or incense), and women. Muslims are not shy about believing that the world is filled with beauty and it is just a foretaste of Heaven.
The second implication in your question is much more complicated. Muhammad never commands to, specifically, kill Christians. Some people in all religions have acted in ways that are inconsistent with their faith tradition’s moral principles. You can disagree with Islam and choose not to be Muslim, but is helpful to NOONE to merely bash other faith traditions with a correct historical and theological context.

 

[MDK]

… Muhammad never commands to, specifically, kill Christians. Some people in all religions have acted in ways that are inconsistent with their faith tradition’s moral principles. You can disagree with Islam and choose not to be Muslim, but is helpful to NOONE to merely bash other faith traditions with a correct historical and theological context.

You are correct in saying that Mohammad did or did not command those adhering to his teachings… because, Mohammad’s teachings were not of God. There is an important distinction to be made. The trouble here is that when one follows Islam, they by definition do not go fully on the way of God. The distortions are significant. When you include the tradition in Islam as in the life of Mohammad, one does see murdering, pillaging, etc. However, when one does follow true Tradition of Christianity, then one will be walking in friendship with God.

 

[eichenb2]

You are correct in saying that Mohammad did or did not command those adhering to his teachings… because, Mohammad’s teachings were not of God. There is an important distinction to be made. The trouble here is that when one follows Islam, they by definition do not go fully on the way of God. The distortions are significant. When you include the tradition in Islam as in the life of Mohammad, one does see murdering, pillaging, etc. However, when one does follow true Tradition of Christianity, then one will be walking in friendship with God.

Is the Old Testament part of Christianity? Did God command some things that we would consider pretty horrible in it? Wake Up! People is glass houses should not throw stones. Quit trying to define yourself and your beliefs, as opposed to Islam. The Catholic tradition is rich in cultural and moral values that are edifying to oneself and society. Why not learn that and not disparage others values? The first post in this thread was a clear example. Instead of circumstantial ad hominem attacks, let us seriously, in a spirit of love and inquiry, dialog in a way that is fruitful. Doesn’t God say, “come, let us reason together”?

 

[MDK]

Is the Old Testament part of Christianity? Did God command some things that we would consider pretty horrible in it? Wake Up! People is glass houses should not throw stones. Quit trying to define yourself and your beliefs, as opposed to Islam. The Catholic tradition is rich in cultural and moral values that are edifying to oneself and society. Why not learn that and not disparage others values? The first post in this thread was a clear example. Instead of circumstantial ad hominem attacks, let us seriously, in a spirit of love and inquiry, dialog in a way that is fruitful. Doesn’t God say, “come, let us reason together”?

We have to ask whether you understand the authority of God compared to that of man to act as he wishes?

God can give life and take it away. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. God is God.

When a man, such as Mohammad unjustly takes a life, it is murder. Mohammad’s behaviors and teachings were wrong… they were not from God. Mohammad is not God, not a prophet acting in God’s behalf.

This is not disparaging, but truth so that others do not follow. That you do not understand does not make it an attack on a person. The spirit I have is to forgive you for falsely accusing me, which I have done without you even asking.

 

[eichenb2]

We have to ask whether you understand the authority of God compared to that of man to act as he wishes?

God can give life and take it away. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. God is God.

When a man, such as Mohammad unjustly takes a life, it is murder. Mohammad’s behaviors and teachings were wrong… they were not from God. Mohammad is not God, not a prophet acting in God’s behalf.

This is not disparaging, but truth so that others do not follow. That you do not understand does not make it an attack on a person. The spirit I have is to forgive you for falsely accusing me, which I have done without you even asking.

Who determines what is True?

 

[eichenb2]

We have to ask whether you understand the authority of God compared to that of man to act as he wishes?

God can give life and take it away. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. God is God.

When a man, such as Mohammad unjustly takes a life, it is murder. Mohammad’s behaviors and teachings were wrong… they were not from God. Mohammad is not God, not a prophet acting in God’s behalf.

This is not disparaging, but truth so that others do not follow. That you do not understand does not make it an attack on a person. The spirit I have is to forgive you for falsely accusing me, which I have done without you even asking.

Wow! How arrogant and belittling! I am going to bow out of this discussion. You have fun with that bitterness and hatred.

 

[MDK]

Who determines what is True?

We know it is God who is the Truth. God has revealed things about Himself and His Nature to us. We can believe Him, or believe falsely. What you really wanted to ask was how do we know it is God or not. There is one faith system that stands up to all tests, and one that crumbles when examined. That is the discussion of a different thread.

 

[MDK]

Wow! How arrogant and belittling! I am going to bow out of this discussion. You have fun with that bitterness and hatred.

Sorry, but it’s true. You’re comparing God’s authority with that of a man as though it’s somehow the same.

So, you accuse me falsely once again, perhaps it is because you have no leg to stand on. It’s ironic that you look at the simple truth in such a way as arrogance and bitterness and hatred… as there is none of these present. Once again I forgive you without your asking.

We can only come to God if we are humble. That is the way I approach God. I hope you do the same.

 

[Thorwald]

What was really being said was that you had no authority to interpret Scriptures without error. This is a very true statement. You are not a qualified Theologian or Christian Scholar in the proper sense. We ask that you please listen to those who are qualified and protected from teaching error in faith and morals. You would do much better, and likely have a much better walk with Christ.

No, I’m not a qualified false prophet. I do not forbid marriage of church ministers (doctrines of devils). I do not create ‘man-made’ saints and dump them before God, telling Him to accept these ‘saints’, because I have deemed them so. I do not accept Mary as being anything more than what Christ has taught concerning her. And,…there is a huge list of beliefs in the RC church, that are in direct conflict with God’s Word. If you want to believe them, go ahead.

 

[MDK]

No, I’m not a qualified false prophet. I do not forbid marriage of church ministers (doctrines of devils). I do not create ‘man-made’ saints and dump them before God, telling Him to accept these ‘saints’, because I have deemed them so. I do not accept Mary as being anything more than what Christ has taught concerning her. And,…there is a huge list of beliefs in the RC church, that are in direct conflict with God’s Word. If you want to believe them, go ahead.

Like I’ve said before, the more you write, the more you make my points…

Marriage is not forbidden anywhwere in the Church as doctrine. Maronite Rite Catholic Priests are married. Celibacy of the Roman Rite Priesthood is a custom. Please read what St. Paul wrote about celibacy in Scriptures. If you want to become married, you are welcome to, but you will choose the sacrament of marriage and not enroll in the priesthood.

The Catholic Church doesn’t create saints as in deciding who gets into Heaven. The Church works diligently to determine what God has done.

The Catholic Church accepts what God has done with Mary. However, you don’t understand even what the Catholic Church really teaches here either. So, you promote much less than what God has done with Mary. God gave her to us as our spiritual mother. That you deny this is to your own detriment.

There is no doctrine of the Catholic Church in conflict with either the written word (as delivered to the world by the Catholic Church) nor Godly Tradition. There is no teaching of the Catholic Church that is in error in faith and morals.

God may be upset with Catholics, but it is simply due to behaviors, not teachings. God is likewise upset with non-Catholics for behaviors as well… but also with non-Catholics’ false teachings.

You are not qualified to detect errors, because you do not know the truth of doctrine and Sacraments. That you call the Catholic Church the things you do, simply means that you are on the wrong side, not knowing true doctrine and false. What you really are saying is that by your own reading, you disagree with the Church, but this is simply ignorance. I ask you to please listen to those who Christ sent, or you will continue to reject Christ as well.