Please remember that the piece was written by an ORTHODOX theologian. I don’t blame any one side. The “blame” belongs everywhere. Can you please list some “denigrations” or misconceptions targeting Orthodoxy? I’d like to understand the things that trouble you. They may trouble me too.
Dully noted. While I defer to his knowledge, that does not mean that I agree with him.
Well then if I may be frank, if the blame is “everywhere,” why did you leave the Orthodox Church for the Catholic Church other than “those ethnics were mean to me?” You could write a book on mistakes that the Orthodox Church has made, but when it comes time to pass around the blame, it seems like Catholics are always willing to play hot potato with it as if it’s always someone else’s fault. That does not sit well with me.
Sure, I can do that, if you give me a few hours to scan old posts and whatnot. In fact, I’d be happy to do it. Here’s one for now; I’m not sure if the most efficient way to do this is by attaching screenshots, or just recording dates and times and using quotes. Would you also care for this to be done in private here, or in public? I have nothing to lose, so I’m fine with either.
I would suggest a review of Randy’s recent threads, all of which seem directed specifically toward the goal of ecumenism.
Anyway, bitter doesn’t seem to apply to Randy, at least in my experience.
I was going to write a rather long response back, but my personal dislike of a person doesn’t really add anything to this conversation. For my own benefit and the benefit of everyone else’s, I will follow Mr. Peter J.'s advice and ignore future posters by Mr. Carson, no matter how many winky faces he adds to his messages that are placed there to goad me into losing my temper. It really isn’t worth it.
I just thought “bitter” was over the top.
I’m an over the top person. It happens.
Well, as of now, only the Catholic Communion officially recognizes both EO and OO are equally Orthodox:
That’s one blog post, hardly anything official. I’d like to see some better sources that have at least some kind of legitimacy behind them.
So then for everyone of your bishops that says we’re “fully Orthodox,” the sister lung, or what have you, there’s someone that says “That’s fair. However, IMO, it’s an even greater problem when Orthodox misrepresent Orthodoxy…as the direct continuation of the one, true Church founded by Jesus.
”. That sounds like your Church speaking out of both corners of her mouth to me.
I would definitely not deny that there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches (14 GC and 8 OC). But I wonder if you hold a “stereotypical” idea of what an EC Church is all about.
Let me suggest reading “Uniatism, Method of Union of the Past, and the Present Search for Full Communion”. (Being aware, of course, that you might have to sacrifice some of your forum-reading time.
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Well, technically I suppose you could: isn’t there a possibility that there might still be an Eastern Rite Georgian-Catholic Church still around, thus bringing the number to 23?
I may not be the most well read on theology, but I’d like to think that I could hold my own in conversations and history and international relations. I have evaluated past events and armed with my evidence have come to the conclusion that the vast majority, if not all Eastern Catholic Churches are colonial affairs, and were formed after a mixture of violent coercion, blatant trickery, or unfortunate opportunism. That might not be the case now, but I and many others do not believe that the Eastern Catholic Churches should have been created in the first place. I also strongly object to every Catholic or Protestant who screams at the top of his lungs about the easternizations in our Western Rite but then says something along the lines of “I’m neutral on the phenomenon of Latinization in the Eastern Catholic Churches because we of the Catholic Church are of one faith and those changes were self-imposed anyway, so it doesn’t matter.” There’s something very unsettling to me at hearing that the Ukrainian Catholic Church having preteen girl acolytes or my Chaldean friend (raised more in his mother’s Ukrainian Catholic community) who is studying to be a nun not knowing what a prayer rope is, that married men in the East are ordained, and relating to me that she was surprised at how beautiful an “Orthodox Mass” was.
At this rate, I’ll read anything to sacrifice some forum-reading time. I can’t give up: no matter how red in the face I get at reading everything here, my sense of honor keeps bringing me back.
If I may quote the Balamand statement, “Concerning the Oriental Catholic Churches, it is clear that they, as part of the Catholic Communion, have the right to exist and to act in answer to the spiritual needs of their faithful,” I can’t argue with that no more than I can argue with “the illustrators of Charlie Hebdo have a right to publish satire aimed at religious communities.” As it stands, the Eastern Catholic Churches do have a right to do anything they please. My objection lies in the “should”. With that being said, no one has magic powers: the Eastern Catholic Churches can’t be willed back into nonexistence. The world must deal with the consequences and we must act accordingly.
For what it’s worth, after this thread clears out and this particular debate ceases, I am giving my password to a friend and having her lock me out. I had fun here inquiring about indigenous Catholic culture in Protestant countries searching for a copy of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Irish, but enough is enough. Not that I expect anyone here to mourn the loss of another anonymous face in the crowd. I can still be reached elsewhere.
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