Yes indeed - Latin Catholic tribalism that cannot look behind Latin theological a priori’s.
I couldn’t believe the reaction I got when I simply raised the issue (raised by RC theologians engaged in dialogue with Orthodoxy) to return to the original Nicene Creed.
I think Ghosty is still very upset with me . . .
We need to see the log in our own eye . . . you know the rest.
Alex
I’d be fine with removing the filioque from the Creed. My sentiments are actually heavily pro-ecumenical. But my reasoning is not that I expect the Orthodox to suddenly want to become one Church with us because of it. I don’t expect the Orthodox to want to become one Church with us for any reason at all.
I deny that I suffer from any Latin tribalism, because (1) I do not ignore the issue or the reality of Latin atrocities committed on the Orthodox, (2) I do not look for excuses for them, and (3) my ecclesiastical views have no need of it. I do not believe that the expression of an honestly held view is in itself evidence of tribalism. Tribalism is a condition where humans outside of the tribe are viewed as having less reality, less humanity. Those outside the tribe are permanently other, and can never stand on an equal footing with those who are tribal members.
Tribal identity is a very natural thing. Doubtlessly there were very good evolutionary reasons for its development. Indeed, animals display the same tendencies. While I make an effort not to engage in it in my religion, because I believe one purpose of the Church is to reverse that biological trend, I freely engage in it in other areas of my life. I show a marked preference for the interests of my family, my country, and even my hometown sports franchises. Indeed, when it comes to the latter, I allow my inner savage to emerge, and become a totally unfair man.
The sports example is apt. Years ago, I was forced to come to the conclusion that rejoicing over an injury to the other team’s starting quarterback is not a particularly Christian act. But a tribal act it most certainly is.
Now when I say that Orthodoxy has a tribal tendency, I’m not saying that most Orthodox would rejoice over an injury to a Catholic. It is a matter of degree. What I am saying is that, for the Orthodox, identity trumps an effort toward a non-partisan view of reality, and that verbal expressions of Orthodoxy arise out of a preeminent need to defend the identity.
That is why much of Orthodox argumentation centers around the concern about being culturally absorbed into what appears to them to be the predatory organism of Catholicism. We Catholics think we’re trying to unite with them, and they think we’re trying to eat them. The existence of Eastern Catholics stand in a contradistinction to that worldview, which might in part explain why the Orthodox bishops won’t meet with us when there are Eastern Catholic bishops in the room. A non-Latin Catholic cannot be real in their universe, and so he must be a ghost, a phantasm that needs to be exorcised.
Symptomatic of this tendency is the divide within Orthodoxy itself along national lines, something that shows up markedly in the United States. Prior to Christianity, religion was always an expression of a particular culture. One purpose of the Church was always to transcend and reverse that tendency, and to make all cultures an expression of the religion. Even Catholicism has failed to overcome the tendency from time to time. But Orthodoxy, and, later, Protestantism, have been attempts to restore the pre-Christian order, sometimes quite consciously so on the part of political authorities.
As for you, Alex, I can’t imagine anyone being upset with you.
Start another thread about theological differences if you want.