The Nashville Statement, A Christian Manifesto

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venite_adoremus

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For your review; follow links for exact text of the manifesto. Issued by 150 Evangelical leaders over their signatures. I am personally amazed how this looks (a) like a series of medieval canons, such as might have been issued by the Council of Trent, and (b) how much it draws on what the Catholic Church has been saying for years and has codified in the CCC. Comments, please. Admins, move to another forum if not appropriate here (for example if it belongs in moral living instead).

tennessean.com/story/news/2017/08/29/evangelical-leaders-issue-nashville-statement-christian-manifesto-human-sexuality-lgbt-gay-marriage/611756001/
 
For your review; follow links for exact text of the manifesto. Issued by 150 Evangelical leaders over their signatures. I am personally amazed how this looks (a) like a series of medieval canons, such as might have been issued by the Council of Trent, and (b) how much it draws on what the Catholic Church has been saying for years and has codified in the CCC.
What does it say about artificial contraception?
 
Well then all they had to do was say read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. 🙂
 
They can sign whatever statements they want, and do it in Memphis or Dubuque or Lubbock or Milwaukee. Their manifestos still carry no weight of authority and they’re ultimately just playing pretend with their own made-up religions. The most egregious part is that they still use the name of Jesus while remaining in their obstinate rebellion. Shameful.
 
They can sign whatever statements they want, and do it in Memphis or Dubuque or Lubbock or Milwaukee. Their manifestos still carry no weight of authority and they’re ultimately just playing pretend with their own made-up religions.
I thought they were Christians.
 
Don’t quote me on this, but this reminds me of the days when I would hear about possibility of a “transdenominational (Protestant) church” coming into being.
 
The failure to acknowledge the depth of evangelicalism’s complicity in the “spirit of our age” is interdependent with the statement’s description of the norms to which we are all held. Article 2 affirms that “God’s revealed will for all people is chastity outside marriage and fidelity within marriage.” The denial makes it clear that the statement is focused on who one’s sexual desires and actions are ordered toward, namely, one’s spouse or non-spouse.
Yet God’s revealed will is for chastity within marriage as well. There are more forms of wrongdoing in the sphere of sexuality than directing one’s sexual desire toward a third party. It is possible to reduce a spouse to an instrument of one’s pleasure, or to engage in intrinsically wrong acts together. If the narrow scope of the document’s denials were accompanied by a robust affirmation of the possibility of such wrongdoing within marriage itself, I’d be more sympathetic to it. But it does not. Such an oversight could be justified by appealing to the document’s minimalist approach. But even if that mitigates the problem, the statement still only offers a truncated, narrow form of the virtues in the realm of sex and marriage to which all Christians are called.
 
I always equated chastity with abstinence. Maybe they’re making the same mistake.
The people at CAF has helped me know the full definition and maybe Catholics should do more to remind Protestants what the term actually means. There are many things I feel Protestantism mistakenly threw out many good things in recent times simply because they were ‘Catholic’. It’s a miracle breathing wasn’t one of them.
 
I always equated chastity with abstinence. Maybe they’re making the same mistake.
Well, that would be something if signers of the manifesto didn’t know what the word chastity means. :o

But the thing is, if the document had instead said “God’s revealed will for all people is abstinence outside marriage and fidelity within marriage.” then wouldn’t Anderson’s observation “the statement is focused on who one’s sexual desires and actions are ordered toward, namely, one’s spouse or non-spouse” still be accurate?
 
If it makes you feel better, ATraveller, I just read a post on CAF saying that the Nashville Statement has “taken a Catholic position on certain teachings concerning sexuality”. :cool:
 
If it makes you feel better, ATraveller, I just read a post on CAF saying that the Nashville Statement has “taken a Catholic position on certain teachings concerning sexuality”. :cool:
Well that’s a good thing isn’t it? The Catholic position is the teaching of Jesus.
 
What strikes me is how gentle the document is - I expected fire and brimstone.

I like how it gently affirms God’s will for his creation, and reminds us that the Gospel is for all of us sinners. A good reminder to proclaim God’s word with love and charity.
 
The writers of this statement might consider Pope Pius XI’s encyclical “Casti Connubii” and Pope Paul VI’s “Humanae Vitae” and see that the widespread use of contraception and the contraception mentality is at the root of society’s marriage problem. Also, if they could consider Fr. Luther’s insistance that marriage be regulated by the State instead of The Church these perversions would have been harder to promote. A weed cannot be totally removed unless you get to it’s root.

Luther and Henry VIII attacked both the perpetuity and exclusivity of marriage. That’s not to say our Evangelical brethren are at fault, they simply inherited a system from 500 years ago that are now baring it’s ugly fruit. All Christians for 19 centuries were on the same page regarding the evilness of contraception, and therefore some semblance of “Christian marriage” was maintained for 400 years.
 
I’m a Protestant and I agree fully on the compromise of modern evangelical Christianity on divorce/re-marriage and the acceptance of birth control (and in some cases even IVF).

However, I believe the compromise of many evangelicals on these matters cannot be grounds for dismissing the good work that’s being done for all Christians by clear statements such as the Nashville Statement. I believe it’s not enough to simply say “we know this already” or the Bible or a Catechism already address these matters. We need to clearly address ideologies that exalt themselves against Christ in our Church and our nation. Further, while inherent perfection is found in Christ and Scripture, there can still be great value in less than perfect statements produced by less than perfect groups and individuals.

Finally, while it’s not good enough to simply make statements, I believe it is a vital part of standing up for the unchanging truth in a society (and sadly in churches) that are quickly departing from it.

JustaSinner
 
Or, you know, you could drive a few hundred miles to Nashville yourself to help.
 
I’m a Protestant and I agree fully on the compromise of modern evangelical Christianity on divorce/re-marriage and the acceptance of birth control (and in some cases even IVF).

However, I believe the compromise of many evangelicals on these matters cannot be grounds for dismissing the good work that’s being done for all Christians by clear statements such as the Nashville Statement. I believe it’s not enough to simply say “we know this already” or the Bible or a Catechism already address these matters. We need to clearly address ideologies that exalt themselves against Christ in our Church and our nation. Further, while inherent perfection is found in Christ and Scripture, there can still be great value in less than perfect statements produced by less than perfect groups and individuals.

Finally, while it’s not good enough to simply make statements, I believe it is a vital part of standing up for the unchanging truth in a society (and sadly in churches) that are quickly departing from it.

JustaSinner
Not sure what you mean when you say you “agree fully on the compromise with modern Christianity on divorce/re-marriage”…I’m assuming you agree with the Catholic position, at least somewhat. If that is the case, then please know the position on marriage is not a modern one from Protestantism. This was at the heart of the Reformation in England and it was also sanctioned by Luther and Melanchthon (Luther’s co-founder of Lutheranism). Luther advised Henry VIII to take on a second wife while still being married to Catherine…and privately he did. He married Anne Bolyne in Jan. 1533 and didn’t divorce Catherine until May 1533. Then in Dec. 1539 Philip of Hesse asked Luther if he could take on a second wife while retaining the first. Luther’s written response? He said a second marriage was NOT contrary to the law of God, but then he demanded that the marriage and the written opinion be kept secret…so as not to create scandal. This written document was delivered to Philip and had six other Protestant ministers signatures on it. Then in March of 1540 in the presence of witnesses including Melanchthon, Philip married again while retaining his “first” wife. Right at it’s root Protestantism is a system which has re-defined marriage. Divorce and re-marriage was permitted in Protestantism right from it’s inception. Polygamy was both proposed and permitted to some degree by the founders of Protestantism.

Fast forward 400 years and Protestantism devolved into “allowing” Christians to contracept, believing it no longer a sin. Since they have separated the creative aspect from the marital act and sex is now first and foremost about pleasure…how do you go about telling the gay community their sex (strictly for pleasure) is wrong? Yes, we can say the Bible says it’s so…but how much stronger an argument you have when you insist the marital act is first and foremost about creation.

When I converted, I was so truly, truly satisfied when I learned this truth.

One quick question, and I apologize if this sounds too combative, but again as a convert my passion is for Protestants to come home to the true faith. The Church has spoken on contraception and IVF and deemed them evil; how does a Protestant reconcile the absence of the HS’s prompting on these issues? When “the pill” came out Protestant churches were all for it…until the science came out and showed it causes early abortion. Then the same with IVF…all on board until we find out in order to be successful extra embryos have to destroyed to “assure” a pregnancy, not to mention all the frozen ones we have now and not knowing what to do with them.

I hope you will consider these things deeply and ask why pretty much only the CC has remained faithful to these teachings.
 
Not sure what you mean when you say you “agree fully on the compromise with modern Christianity on divorce/re-marriage”…I’m assuming you agree with the Catholic position, at least somewhat.
I mean that I agree completely that artificial contraception is sin. That said, I believe unnecessary/excessive use of natural family planning–i.e. for reasons other than healthy spacing/health of the mother and future children–is also a sin, not only because it betrays a contraceptive mindset, but also because it violates the Scriptural (and obvious) principle that spouses should not unnecessarily abstain (e.g. 1 Corinthians 7:5)).

The acceptance in the past century by most Protestants and Eastern Orthodox of contraception is an unfortunate matter. Also, while the RC Church must be commended for officially condemning the practice, it appears from statistics that the % of RCs who avoid contraception is no greater than the % of Protestants who avoid it. I know my wife and I certainly feel like the minority on contraception both among Protestants and RCs.

It’s without dispute that God hates divorce, but the current practice of “annulment” is (90+% of the time) hardly an improvement over the practice of divorce and remarriage in Bible believing Protestant churches. Calling it divorce is a far more honest assessment in virtually every case.
If that is the case, then please know the position on marriage is not a modern one from Protestantism. This was at the heart of the Reformation in England and it was also sanctioned by Luther and Melanchthon (Luther’s co-founder of Lutheranism). Luther advised Henry VIII to take on a second wife while still being married to Catherine…and privately he did. He married Anne Bolyne in Jan. 1533 and didn’t divorce Catherine until May 1533. Then in Dec. 1539 Philip of Hesse asked Luther if he could take on a second wife while retaining the first. Luther’s written response? He said a second marriage was NOT contrary to the law of God, but then he demanded that the marriage and the written opinion be kept secret…so as not to create scandal. This written document was delivered to Philip and had six other Protestant ministers signatures on it. Then in March of 1540 in the presence of witnesses including Melanchthon, Philip married again while retaining his “first” wife. Right at it’s root Protestantism is a system which has re-defined marriage. Divorce and re-marriage was permitted in Protestantism right from it’s inception. Polygamy was both proposed and permitted to some degree by the founders of Protestantism.
You are aware that notable Roman Catholic theologians including the Pope himself had advocated polygamy as a lesser evil than divorce in the case of Henry VIII. It was likewise on the “lesser of two evils” ground that Melancthon and Luther had approved polygamy in the case of the unfaithful Henry and Philip.

Despite the opinions of the Pope and Luther on this matter, Polygamy has from that time to the present been roundly condemned by Roman Catholics and Protestants alike.

On the other hand, the question of the absolute indissolubility of marriage has been an open question since the earliest days of the Church (with many Church Fathers and the Eastern Churches coming to a different conclusion than the ultimate position of the Roman Catholic Church). Some Bible believing Protestants hold a position similar to the current position of the RC on the indissolubility of marriage, while others take the position that while divorce and remarriage should be strongly discouraged no matter how grim the adulterous, etc. behavior (e.g. Hosea’s wife), yet divorce/remarriage is permitted in certain very limited contexts (i.e. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 as explained by Christ in Matthew 5:31,32;19:3-12). There are strong arguments from Scripture and Tradition for both positions.

However, the Protestants who take a loose view as to the grounds for divorce and remarriage (and RC who take a loose view as to annulment) are blatantly outside the bounds of Scripture and Church history, no matter how much they may claim to be following the Bible or Tradition.

It may be a week or more before I have time to follow up. Have a good Labor’s Day Weekend.
 
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