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meltzerboy2
Guest
Ah, do I sound like an atheist? Perhaps I do in this thread. No, I am Jewish and of course have a different perspective on several of these topics. I am interested in the Christian viewpoint, however.
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Hereiam
Guest
Hypostasis
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
The Gospel of Mark is all action, it’s go from the go. 
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CRM_Brother
Guest
There have been many good answers so far. I hope my imput will be able to add to the discussion.
We must start in the beginning. We know from John 1:1 that Christ coexisted with the Father and yet was truly God. This was before He took on Flesh. We find in Hebrews 1:3 and Colossians 1:15 that Christ was the true image of the Father, the perfect image. This is where we find that Christ not only possesses a Divine nature before His Incarnation but is, infact, inherently a Divine Person.
It is after this which we come to the creation of human personhood and nature. Man was not solely created in the perfect image of God, which is Christ, but also in likeness. In likeness we find degrees of separation. It is inherently not an exact reflection. A good example is the painting The Treachery of Images by Rene Magritte. It is a painting of a pipe with the words (in French) “This is not a pipe,” written under it. It is a image of a pipe, but not an actual pipe. A perfect image would be an exact replica of the pipe, therefore an pipe in and of itself. The painting is an image and likeness as it is distinct from the actual thing. So too is man. In our likeness, we are “like gods” but not God Himself.
We now see that mankind is separate from the divine nature and personhood. In creation, the human person is a union of body and soul. Man’s nature comes about through the soul’s individuation in the body. It is inherently tied to Man’s action. This is opposed to God’s nature as it is inherently one with his existence. His nature is His existance, thus the Divine nature cannot be separated from divine personhood.
At the incarnation, Christ did not shed his divine soul to become a human person, instead the Divine Person, with His Divine nature, to become man. instead the Divine soul, the perfect image, took on likeness. The divine soul, along with its nature was made flesh and in doing so, took on a human nature in its act of living. Thus, Christ experienced humanity through His human nature. This included temptation. Mankind, in its likeness and imperfect image can choose something which is oriented to something other than God. The soul may choose sin over God, but the opportunity to sin (temptation) is offered through its act within the world, that is, through its nature. This opportunity for sin is inherent in the human nature It results from the enactment of man’s free will to choose something other than God. The inclination to sin results from the Fall of man"s nature.
This is where we find the difference in the temptations of Mary and Jesus. Mary had a human soul and thus could have chosen to orient her act towards something other than God, but did not. Christ, as He had a Divine soul instead of a human one, was offered the opportunity to sin in temptation through His human nature, but could not as the inherent nature within the Divine soul could not deny Himself.
Thus, Christ is a Divine Person with a Divine nature but also took upon Himself a human nature in the Incarnation. From that point onward He had both a Divine and human natures.
i hope this helps.
God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM
P.S. I am sorry for any grammar or spelling errors.
We must start in the beginning. We know from John 1:1 that Christ coexisted with the Father and yet was truly God. This was before He took on Flesh. We find in Hebrews 1:3 and Colossians 1:15 that Christ was the true image of the Father, the perfect image. This is where we find that Christ not only possesses a Divine nature before His Incarnation but is, infact, inherently a Divine Person.
It is after this which we come to the creation of human personhood and nature. Man was not solely created in the perfect image of God, which is Christ, but also in likeness. In likeness we find degrees of separation. It is inherently not an exact reflection. A good example is the painting The Treachery of Images by Rene Magritte. It is a painting of a pipe with the words (in French) “This is not a pipe,” written under it. It is a image of a pipe, but not an actual pipe. A perfect image would be an exact replica of the pipe, therefore an pipe in and of itself. The painting is an image and likeness as it is distinct from the actual thing. So too is man. In our likeness, we are “like gods” but not God Himself.
We now see that mankind is separate from the divine nature and personhood. In creation, the human person is a union of body and soul. Man’s nature comes about through the soul’s individuation in the body. It is inherently tied to Man’s action. This is opposed to God’s nature as it is inherently one with his existence. His nature is His existance, thus the Divine nature cannot be separated from divine personhood.
At the incarnation, Christ did not shed his divine soul to become a human person, instead the Divine Person, with His Divine nature, to become man. instead the Divine soul, the perfect image, took on likeness. The divine soul, along with its nature was made flesh and in doing so, took on a human nature in its act of living. Thus, Christ experienced humanity through His human nature. This included temptation. Mankind, in its likeness and imperfect image can choose something which is oriented to something other than God. The soul may choose sin over God, but the opportunity to sin (temptation) is offered through its act within the world, that is, through its nature. This opportunity for sin is inherent in the human nature It results from the enactment of man’s free will to choose something other than God. The inclination to sin results from the Fall of man"s nature.
This is where we find the difference in the temptations of Mary and Jesus. Mary had a human soul and thus could have chosen to orient her act towards something other than God, but did not. Christ, as He had a Divine soul instead of a human one, was offered the opportunity to sin in temptation through His human nature, but could not as the inherent nature within the Divine soul could not deny Himself.
Thus, Christ is a Divine Person with a Divine nature but also took upon Himself a human nature in the Incarnation. From that point onward He had both a Divine and human natures.
i hope this helps.
God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM
P.S. I am sorry for any grammar or spelling errors.
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BlackFriar
Guest
Not quite methinks.
Graced humans are still not perfect in their human nature.
Baptism does not restore full original justification. Concupiscence is evidence of that.
There is also the question of whether glorification is a perfection of human nature…or not. Even Jesus did not have that due to the incarnation alone.
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lilypadrees
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luisvera
Guest
Hi!
Use caps when saying Christ btw
Well, He has Two Natures, Human and Divine
Use caps when saying Christ btw
Well, He has Two Natures, Human and Divine
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Mary888
Guest
Before the fall the human nature was perfect, godly, and according to God’s will. But to complete this state the temptation was necessary. Unfortunately both Adam and Eve could not pass temptation. Since then, because of the fall, every time they searched back to their original state it was done in a twisted way. Like for example self-idolatry is a perverted way of wanting to get back to the original state of grace in God’s image - not knowing what to do, the man celebrates himself as god even though he does not remember nor understand what being in God’s image, according to His will for us, means.
Part of our perfection is obedience to God. Our common image with Him does not exceed the fact that He created us. We are in His image not entirely equal to Him that is why perfection in His image is constituted also out of obedience.
This is why the image of Christ is so important, to show us what our perfection is supposed to be composed of. And obedience to God even when we disapprove of what He demands (Jesus disapproved also in Ghetsemani, he asked God to save him) is one of this aspect.
Jesus Christ accepted temptation to show us it can be done and help us.
Jesus’s nature remains perfect even if he passed through temptations and disapproved of God like we do because he was doing this for us, to pull us through and out of our fallen nature (someday… hopefully…).
Part of our perfection is obedience to God. Our common image with Him does not exceed the fact that He created us. We are in His image not entirely equal to Him that is why perfection in His image is constituted also out of obedience.
This is why the image of Christ is so important, to show us what our perfection is supposed to be composed of. And obedience to God even when we disapprove of what He demands (Jesus disapproved also in Ghetsemani, he asked God to save him) is one of this aspect.
Jesus Christ accepted temptation to show us it can be done and help us.
Jesus’s nature remains perfect even if he passed through temptations and disapproved of God like we do because he was doing this for us, to pull us through and out of our fallen nature (someday… hopefully…).
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poche
Guest
Whenever I see this type of question I would like to refer you to the creed that we say every Sunday at Mass. I think we should study it and meditate on what it actually means.
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