The Nature of Jesus

[Theresagnes]

If the Incarnation of Jesus did not add anything to the nature of God then was Christ’s human nature somehow existing in God before Jesus came to earth? Can someone explain how this works to me?

Blessings,

TAgnes

 

[bubble_lady]

Jesus is both fully human and fully divine; the humanity of Jesus is therefore seperate from his divine nature. Although it was always part of God’s plan (at least since the fall of man) that Jesus would take on our human nature and become like us in all things but sin, the humanity of Jesus did not begin until the Virgin Mary gave her Fiat at the Annunciation and Jesus was conceived in her womb. Mary is the Mother of God because she is the mother of Jesus, but that title of Mary does not imply that Mary added anything to the divine nature. Mary only consented to share her humanity with God; neither she nor any other human being could add anything to God.

The Incarnation of Jesus raised up our humanity, because God became one of us, but because we are creatures, our nature does nothing to the divine nature. Divine nature is infinitely above human nature.

 

[JDaniel]

If the Incarnation of Jesus did not add anything to the nature of God then was Christ’s human nature somehow existing in God before Jesus came to earth? Can someone explain how this works to me?

Blessings,

TAgnes

Welcome, TAgnes:

First, let me say that I am ever intrigued by those who come here exhibiting no disabuse whatsoever for the confluence of two diametrically opposed ideas: God and Time. God exists outside of Time, as an Eternal Now. Think of the mortal ‘now’ as that spacer that resides in between the fore edge of the continuum called the Past and the aft edge of the continuum called the Future. You can envision how small the ‘now’ is to us, right? Now, consider it as an infinite, or eternal Now. That is the only environment in which an Infinite Being can possibly exist. So, the answer to your precise question is: Yes.

Nevertheless, one cannot and must not think that human nature is an integral part of the Divine nature. Human nature exists in God in the same way that the Mona Lisa existed in Leonardo da Vinci, as his most profound creational achievement, precisely because Christ was an emanation of the essence of that Being known as Love. But, again, there was no ‘time’ here, simply continuous occurring. I know that was very confusing, however try to envision a being whose magnitude included all of the space of the universe and beyond forever. I can’t, and, unfortunately, our common usage words aren’t much help.

God bless,
jd

 

[Theresagnes]

This is very helpful, many thanks to both of you.

JD, you are quite right to point out that I am putting God within the constraints of Time. Your explanation was helpful and I just want to make sure I understand you correctly so I will summarize in my own words:

Jesus’ humanity is not part of the divine nature, it is something that He took on to bring His creation closer to Himself. Correct?

And I am wondering from what you said if the humanity of Jesus is within the mind of God in the same way that our humanity is?

 

[ronnie_bonigli]

Jesus is both fully human and fully divine; the humanity of Jesus is therefore seperate from his divine nature. Although it was always part of God’s plan (at least since the fall of man) that Jesus would take on our human nature and become like us in all things but sin, the humanity of Jesus did not begin until the Virgin Mary gave her Fiat at the Annunciation and Jesus was conceived in her womb. Mary is the Mother of God because she is the mother of Jesus, but that title of Mary does not imply that Mary added anything to the divine nature. Mary only consented to share her humanity with God; neither she nor any other human being could add anything to God.

The Incarnation of Jesus raised up our humanity, because God became one of us, but because we are creatures, our nature does nothing to the divine nature. Divine nature is infinitely above human nature.

Outstanding, bubble lady. And you’re just a trial member too. Someone fast track this lady to a full member status

 

[FCCopleston]

Welcome, TAgnes:

First, let me say that I am ever intrigued by those who come here exhibiting no disabuse whatsoever for the confluence of two diametrically opposed ideas: God and Time. God exists outside of Time, as an Eternal Now. Think of the mortal ‘now’ as that spacer that resides in between the fore edge of the continuum called the Past and the aft edge of the continuum called the Future. You can envision how small the ‘now’ is to us, right? Now, consider it as an infinite, or eternal Now. That is the only environment in which an Infinite Being can possibly exist. So, the answer to your precise question is: Yes.

Nevertheless, one cannot and must not think that human nature is an integral part of the Divine nature. Human nature exists in God in the same way that the Mona Lisa existed in Leonardo da Vinci, as his most profound creational achievement, precisely because Christ was an emanation of the essence of that Being known as Love. But, again, there was no ‘time’ here, simply continuous occurring. I know that was very confusing, however try to envision a being whose magnitude included all of the space of the universe and beyond forever. I can’t, and, unfortunately, our common usage words aren’t much help.

God bless,
jd

While I agree that, properly speaking, God exists beyond, or outside of time, I do not agree that God does not also exist in time.

If we deny that Christ, as God, truly entered into space and time, truly became a man, and truly dwelt among us, then we are without an incarnation, and we are, therefore, without salvation.

The flesh of Jesus Christ has been united with the divinity of the Son of God in such a way that they are inseparably united, with no confusion or division. When we speak of Jesus Christ, we are speaking of God and man, One person with two natures. Neither nature is unworthy of worship. God entered into time through the womb of the Virgin Mary. It is for this reason that she is called theotokos, i.e., the Mother of God.

In Christ,
JCCopleston

 

[JDaniel]

This is very helpful, many thanks to both of you.

JD, you are quite right to point out that I am putting God within the constraints of Time. Your explanation was helpful and I just want to make sure I understand you correctly so I will summarize in my own words:

Jesus’ humanity is not part of the divine nature, it is something that He took on to bring His creation closer to Himself. Correct?

And I am wondering from what you said if the humanity of Jesus is within the mind of God in the same way that our humanity is?

TA:

I’m not sure what you mean by, “the humanity of Jesus is within the mind of God in the same way that our humanity is.” What does that mean to you?

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

While I agree that, properly speaking, God exists beyond, or outside of time, I do not agree that God does not also exist in time.

If we deny that Christ, as God, truly entered into space and time, truly became a man, and truly dwelt among us, then we are without an incarnation, and we are, therefore, without salvation.

The flesh of Jesus Christ has been united with the divinity of the Son of God in such a way that they are inseparably united, with no confusion or division. When we speak of Jesus Christ, we are speaking of God and man, One person with two natures. Neither nature is unworthy of worship. God entered into time through the womb of the Virgin Mary. It is for this reason that she is called theotokos, i.e., the Mother of God.

In Christ,
JCCopleston

JCC:

There is no question that while Jesus existed on earth, he was in time. However, in order for God to be in time in any other way, he would have to be mobile. I contend, like the Church, and Thomas Aquinas, that God is infinite, simple and one, and, therefore, quite immobile.

God bless,
jd

 

[FCCopleston]

JCC:

There is no question that while Jesus existed on earth, he was in time. However, in order for God to be in time in any other way, he would have to be mobile. I contend, like the Church, and Thomas Aquinas, that God is infinite, simple and one, and, therefore, quite immobile.

God bless,
jd

I agree with you, JDaniel.

I was just clarifying whether you thought it was impossible for God to enter into time. It is agreed by all orthodox theologians that God exists wholly apart from time, that is, as God exists in Himself (and, as St. Paul says, in inapproachable light). However, with respect to God as He exists for us, we find in Jesus Christ the fullness of the Godhead dwelling bodily. Therefore, God enters into time, not by some necessity of His nature, but out of love for His fallen Creation through the blood and cross of His Son.

In Christ,
FCCopleston

 

[Theresagnes]

Welcome, TAgnes:
Nevertheless, one cannot and must not think that human nature is an integral part of the Divine nature. Human nature exists in God in the same way that the Mona Lisa existed in Leonardo da Vinci, as his most profound creational achievement, precisely because Christ was an emanation of the essence of that Being known as Love.

JD,

I am trying to understand what you mean by human nature being a part of God but not integral to God’s divine nature. You compare human nature in God to the Mona Lisa in the mind of Leonardo da Vinci.

Does that mean that Jesus’ human nature as well as our own can be compared to the Mona Lisa in the mind of God?

Did the human person of Jesus exist in the mind of God like the Mona Lisa before he took on our humanity and came to earth?

I hope this is making sense, I know I am not being totally clear but that is because it is not clear in my mind!

Thanks for your help!

Theresa

 

[rdscheirer]

I go back to Genesis- Let us make man in OUR own image- interesting it says our not my- the triune God existed before the creation.

 

[FCCopleston]

I go back to Genesis- Let us make man in OUR own image- interesting it says our not my- the triune God existed before the creation.

It is so difficult to speak of God in relationship to time…

If we say that “God has always existed,” or that “God existed before the creation,” then we are speaking in terms of God being in time before creation, and/or of time existing before creation. God is Necessary Being and the Self-Caused Cause of all that exists. God’s relationship to the universe is not chronological, but causal. There was no before the Beginning, there was only the Beginning. Therefore, if time is a part of creation, and God is transcendent to His creation, then God is transcendent to time. God has become a part of time through an act of love in the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

"How inscrutable are His ways!" (Romans 11:33)

In Christ,
FCCopleston

 

[Raawwly]

Though it might freak some folks out who are on here, there is the viewpoint that the actual nature of Jesuse as God and man was misunderstood by His followers who were not there for the sessions indicated by Mark 4:33,34. The claim is made by some that the whole point of Jesus’ teaching is that the hypostatic Union is the actual and undiscovered Reality of each human ever created.

 

[FCCopleston]

Though it might freak some folks out who are on here, there is the viewpoint that the actual nature of Jesuse as God and man was misunderstood by His followers who were not there for the sessions indicated by Mark 4:33,34. The claim is made by some that the whole point of Jesus’ teaching is that the hypostatic Union is the actual and undiscovered Reality of each human ever created.

I don’t know why this would “freak anyone out.”

Heresy has been around since the Church began.

In Christ,
FCCopleston