The nature of Purgatory

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I have a question that I cannot seem to make much sense of. Purgatory makes sense to me, at least to the degree that I can see a NEED for it. However what I do not understand is the nature of it. To even more confound me is the fact that prayers of others can help us while we are there.

Let me explain what I know and then what I suspect, and then others can help fill in the blanks or fix anything I say that is wrong.
  1. The need of Purgatory is because nothing that is not perfect and holy can enter heaven. So from this understanding, there has to be some form of Purgatory. If I died right now, I hope that I would make it into heaven, however I also know I am far from perfect. To the extent that I am imperfect I will be “fixed” in Purgatory.
  2. Purgatory is also to some extent punishment, in that I still owe payment for my sins. This part also makes sense to me, in that if I stole $500 from you, and you forgive me, I still have to pay back the $500.
  3. This is where I get confused here, if Purgatory is like a school for bad kids, half school and half prison, how does somebody saying a prayer for me here help me?
In the sense that Purgatory is school, how does somebody saying a prayer for me help me to learn any faster? To the extent it is punishment, how does a prayer help me suffer faster? Now I see that Jesus paid my way out of hell, however to the degree that I still owe punishment for my sins, others offering up their sufferings should not make any difference. If my friend is sentenced to 5 years in prison for armed robbery, I cannot say I will serve in his place for a year, and get his sentence cut down to 4 years. Why? Because that is not justice.

If you are saying I am begging the Judge to take it easy on my friend for his crime, I can see that to a point in an earthly sense. However to the degree that we NEED purgatory, this is more then God taking it easy on us. If we do not NEED purgatory, to make us pure, then why have it at all? If we do need it, others cannot help me with it. Like if I need a painful operation to save my life, you cannot undergo it in my place and save me the suffering. You also cannot ask the Doctor to not hurt me, the goal is to save my life, not punish me.

I am sure I am off someplace, but that is why I ask.

Pax :signofcross:
 
Here’s a compilation of JPII’s speeches regarding heaven, hell, and, toward the bottom, purgatory. I’m not sure if the section on purgatory answers your question entirely (or at all). All that I can say is that I’ve always understood purgatory to be a more complex “system” than the one you’ve outlined above, but in which ways, I can’t articulate.
 
The Church does not know the nature of purgatory or what it is like. We only know that there is an “it” which we call purgatory.

Contrary to what you may read here, the Church does not say that Purgatory a place of suffering. This may be in the visions of some Saints but it is not doctrine and the Church remains silent on the matter.
 
Safia said:
Here are a few links via the “Ask an Apologist” forum that might enlighten you, too. 🙂

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=611194&highlight=purgatory
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Thank you for that, however it does not answer the question of WHAT my prayers do for the souls in Purgatory. It only explains that prayers help others in the Bible, and that they help the dead. I knew that already, and have no questions it is true. It is in the Bible AND the Church says it, I have no doubt that it helps. If it is just one of those things we cannot know and understand, that is fine, but I wish there was SOME idea of the reason behind it.

Pax :signofcross:
 
Speedypizza said:
Thank you for that, however it does not answer the question of WHAT my prayers do for the souls in Purgatory. It only explains that prayers help others in the Bible, and that they help the dead. I knew that already, and have no questions it is true. It is in the Bible AND the Church says it, I have no doubt that it helps. If it is just one of those things we cannot know and understand, that is fine, but I wish there was SOME idea of the reason behind it.

Pax :signofcross:
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Prayers open the flood gates of God’s grace on Earth and in Purgatory.

I think your also off on number 2:
  1. Purgatory is also to some extent punishment, in that I still owe payment for my sins. This part also makes sense to me, in that if I stole $500 from you, and you forgive me, I still have to pay back the $500.
You have to correct the damage done to your soul in stealing the $500 dollars, but God does not wring you out till you pay up the $500 dollars or attribute a certain amount of suffering you have to go through in payment for the $500 dollars. Any suffering you would endure would be caused by the realization of how unworthy you are to be in God’s presence and receive the grace he pours out to help make you holy. Suffering also indicates the pain we endure in letting go of our attachments to this world while being made holy.
 
Speedypizza said:
I have a question that I cannot seem to make much sense of. Purgatory makes sense to me, at least to the degree that I can see a NEED for it. However what I do not understand is the nature of it. To even more confound me is the fact that prayers of others can help us while we are there.

Let me explain what I know and then what I suspect, and then others can help fill in the blanks or fix anything I say that is wrong.
  1. The need of Purgatory is because nothing that is not perfect and holy can enter heaven. So from this understanding, there has to be some form of Purgatory. If I died right now, I hope that I would make it into heaven, however I also know I am far from perfect. To the extent that I am imperfect I will be “fixed” in Purgatory.
  2. Purgatory is also to some extent punishment, in that I still owe payment for my sins. This part also makes sense to me, in that if I stole $500 from you, and you forgive me, I still have to pay back the $500.
  3. This is where I get confused here, if Purgatory is like a school for bad kids, half school and half prison, how does somebody saying a prayer for me here help me?
In the sense that Purgatory is school, how does somebody saying a prayer for me help me to learn any faster? To the extent it is punishment, how does a prayer help me suffer faster? Now I see that Jesus paid my way out of hell, however to the degree that I still owe punishment for my sins, others offering up their sufferings should not make any difference. If my friend is sentenced to 5 years in prison for armed robbery, I cannot say I will serve in his place for a year, and get his sentence cut down to 4 years. Why? Because that is not justice.

If you are saying I am begging the Judge to take it easy on my friend for his crime, I can see that to a point in an earthly sense. However to the degree that we NEED purgatory, this is more then God taking it easy on us. If we do not NEED purgatory, to make us pure, then why have it at all? If we do need it, others cannot help me with it. Like if I need a painful operation to save my life, you cannot undergo it in my place and save me the suffering. You also cannot ask the Doctor to not hurt me, the goal is to save my life, not punish me.

I am sure I am off someplace, but that is why I ask.

Pax :signofcross:
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Frankly, if I make it to Purgatory I will be happy no matter how long I have to spend there and how much purification I have to go through because it means I have been saved and that I will be going to Heaven.
 
thistle said:
Frankly, if I make it to Purgatory I will be happy no matter how long I have to spend there and how much purification I have to go through because it means I have been saved and that I will be going to Heaven.
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Aim for the eagle, bag the pheasant and don’t eat crow! Aim for going straight to heaven, if you miss, you will have much less time in purgatory then if you aim to get there.

Pax :signofcross:
 
Speedypizza said:
Aim for the eagle, bag the pheasant and don’t eat crow! Aim for going straight to heaven, if you miss, you will have much less time in purgatory then if you aim to get there.

Pax :signofcross:
Click to expand...
Of course I would like to go straight to Heaven but unlike many people who seem to dread going to Purgatory first I don’t because it still means I’ve been saved.
 
Whether you know it or not you are actually in purgatory right now. So get out now so you don’t have to continue to be in purgatory when you die.

Do you hate your life now you are going to hate it a lot more when you are dead and still dealing with the same petty things you deal with now.

Get out while you can :eek: 😛
 
Speedypizza said:
Thank you for that, however it does not answer the question of WHAT my prayers do for the souls in Purgatory. It only explains that prayers help others in the Bible, and that they help the dead. I knew that already, and have no questions it is true. It is in the Bible AND the Church says it, I have no doubt that it helps. If it is just one of those things we cannot know and understand, that is fine, but I wish there was SOME idea of the reason behind it.

Pax :signofcross:
Click to expand...
This is from the bishop’s statement:
22. Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year, a time when those who seek perfection will be mindful of their personal sins and the sins of mankind which they are called upon to help EXPIATE in union with Christ Crucified.

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott,
p 482
The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with
venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory (De fide)

P 321
The living faithful can come to the assistance of the souls in Purgatory
by their intercessions(suffrages). (De Fide)

P.485
Out of consideration for the separated Greeks, who reject the notion of
a purifying fire, the official declarations of the councils speak only of purifying
punishments, not of purifying fire.

So in some way thru our suffrages we may ease their pain. It would be like paying off
or some of the credit card bill for someone. By the way this is an act of charity
to pray and mortify ourselves to help them. And in doing so we may be judged more leniently since we look with mercy on those less fortunate than ourselves. The Church encourages everyone to do this and even offers to help us do this by presenting us with
indulgences not only for ourselves but also for others.
 
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