The Need for Humility

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fhansen said:
I can’t seem to fathom why humility would direct one to consider the body secondary to the soul or spirit.
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I need you to explain,

Why the body is not secondary to the soul or spirit?
Are corporal works of mercy secondary to spiritual works of mercy?
Are the bodies of animals secondary to their souls?
“The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit.”
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Catechism of the Catholic Church - #364
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fhansen,

Is there a difference between Jesus’ soul and his divinity?
Is the human soul, God?
Is the human body, God?
 
Psychotheosophy said:
I need you to explain,

Why the body is not secondary to the soul or spirit?
Are corporal works of mercy secondary to spiritual works of mercy?
Are the bodies of animals secondary to their souls?

fhansen,

Is there a difference between Jesus’ soul and his divinity?
Is the human soul, God?
Is the human body, God?
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Both the human soul and body depend on God for their being.
 
fhansen said:
Both the human soul and body depend on God for their being.
“We sense them with our bodily organs in their individuality; and then our understanding, which is not the activity of any bodily organ, takes the natures that exist that exist individually instantiated and considers them universally in abstraction from individual matter: something sensation is unable to do.”
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Existence = Unity = Love = Principle = God

The Principle of Unity guides unity in souls (minds),
A soul (mind) gives unity to bodily sensations through abstraction.

Understanding the human person (soul and body),
Occurs in the soul (mind), not the body,
Following the Principle of Unity.

If the devil can read minds, and insert thoughts,
Then he can establish a kind of “church,”
Being of “one mind” and “one body,”
And through his power,
The devil can facilitate,
Telepathic communication between its members,
Interfering with others who reject the devil and his teachings.

And if the devil likes to remain hidden,
This “church” believes that,
The inserted thoughts,
Of the devil,
Are really their own,
And are true merely if coincidental.

But neither the devil,
Nor any human soul,
Can perfectly predict,
What others will choose.

So, if the soul is immortal,
And abstract thinking unifies individual instances in time,
And abstract thinking occurs in the soul,
Then, why can’t the human soul,
Perfectly predict what others will choose?
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Psychotheosophy said:
Existence = Unity = Love = Principle = God

The Principle of Unity guides unity in souls (minds),
A soul (mind) gives unity to bodily sensations through abstraction.

Understanding the human person (soul and body),
Occurs in the soul (mind), not the body,
Following the Principle of Unity.

If the devil can read minds, and insert thoughts,
Then he can establish a kind of “church,”
Being of “one mind” and “one body,”
And through his power,
The devil can facilitate,
Telepathic communication between its members,
Interfering with others who reject the devil and his teachings.
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The devil is not omnipresent. How many souls at a time can he control? I would say one. So no, it is not a “church”. It wouldn’t be anything like one.
And if the devil likes to remain hidden,
This “church” believes that,
The inserted thoughts,
Of the devil,
Are really their own,
And are true merely if coincidental.
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But neither the devil,
Nor any human soul,
Can perfectly predict,
What others will choose.
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So, if the soul is immortal,
And abstract thinking unifies individual instances in time,
And abstract thinking occurs in the soul,
Then, why can’t the human soul,
Perfectly predict what others will choose?
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…huh? Why should the ability of the soul to abstract events from their physical realities mean that they should be able to perfectly predict what others would do?
 
Litany of Humility

O Jusus, meek and humble of heart, hear me.

From the desire of being esteemed, deliver me, Jesus.

From the desire of being loved,
From the desire of being extolled,
From the desire of being honored,
From the desire of being praised,
From the desire of being preferred to others,
From the desire of being consulted,
From the desire of being approved,

From the fear of being humiliated, deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being despised,
From the fear of suffering rebukes,
From the fear of being calaumniated,
From the fear of being forgotten,
From the fear of being ridiculed,
From the fear of being wronged,
From the fear of being suspected

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I,
That in the opinion of the world, others may increase, and I decrease,
That others may be chosen and I set aside,
That others may be praised and I unoticed,
That others may be preferred to me in everything,
That others may become holier than I, provided I may become as holy as I should.
  • Rafael Cardinal Merry del Val
 
TheQuestioner said:
How many souls at a time can he control? I would say one.
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I agree that he can manipulate “one mind.”
TheQuestioner said:
So no, it is not a “church”. It wouldn’t be anything like one.
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I agree that it would be an anti-church.
TheQuestioner said:
…huh? Why should the ability of the soul to abstract events from their physical realities mean that they should be able to perfectly predict what others would do?
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I agree that the human soul,
Is not able to perfectly predict,
The Truth of what others will do.
StrawberryJam said:
Because none of us knows all. Realizing that, should humble anyone or any group/tribe.
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I agree.
Though I believe that we can be infallibly certain about some things.
(Things which are self-evident.)

The human mind can be manipulated,
It can be misdirected and distracted,
Chasing after all kinds of concerns,
And in combination of these,
Very confused and,
Externally directable.

Hypnotic suggestions can be presented
Through sleep deprivation, drug inducement,
Or any coaxing of the autonomic nervous system.

(And if the devil can insert thoughts,
He can trigger hypnotic suggestions at will.)

However,

I do know of a catholic priest,
Who is extremely knowledgeable about many things,
Including just about everything besides theology,
And who is revered by many for his occult powers.
I believe that he turns 50 years old this year,
Perhaps his age has something to do with it.

1960, the year of his birth,
Does seem to be a peculiar year.
The Third Secret of Fatima
Was supposed to be released by that year,
But for some reason, it wasn’t.

(I am interested in Fatima,
My nationality is 1/2 Portuguese).
 
StrawberryJam said:
Woah, a priest with occult powers? Tell me more.
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You don’t think its possible for a priest to be evil?
You don’t believe any priest has sexually abused anyone?

Catholicism is not merely philosophy, it’s theology.

There are truths which are self-evident,
These self-evident truths are not the product of reason,
Since they are known without reason, they are not maintained by reinforcement.
(Even the Principle of Life precedes an evolutionary process.)

We say that which is self-evident comes from God.
"“Everything God plans obeys the standard of his eternal law, and bears the imprint of that law in the form of a natural tendency to pursue whatever behaviour and goals are appropriate to it.”
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It is self-evident that,
People naturally desire Happiness over unhappiness,
People eternally desire Perfect Happiness over imperfect happiness.
(Imperfect happiness becomes very unhappy over a very long period of time).
“Penitence is associated with faith in Christ’s sufferings justifying us, with hope of pardon, with the hate of vice which characterizes charity.”
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Baptism opens the door to perfecting grace (The sacrament of faith)
Eucharist perfects faith (The sacrament of love)
Confession helps us when we cut ourselves off from this grace (The sacrament of faith, love, and hope)
“To be able to to draw more than one conclusion from given premises shows power of mind; but to draw a conclusion not warranted by the premises is a fault. In the same way, to be able to choose more than one course of action leading to a goal is a fulfillment of freedom; but to choose a course departing from the goal and to sin is a defect of freedom.”
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There is a hierarchy of conclusions,
Depending on reasoning’s incremental level of perfection.

If God perfectly loves humanity,
Then keeping them from unhappiness,
He would guarantee the Perfect conclusions to be known,
With infallible certainty.
“All creatures are patterned after God himself. Now effects most resemble their cause when they resemble its very way of causing, which in God’s case is by intelligence and will; so without created intelligences the universe would be incomplete. Since bodies and bodily powers cannot exercise intelligence (being limited to the here and now), a complete universe must contain creatures without bodies.”
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Since there are incremental levels of perfection,
And God is Perfection,
There needs to be a being,
Who is not God (immaterial),
And not having a body (material).

These beings are called angels who serve God.
These angles who have rejected God (Perfect Goodness) are called demons.

Since these beings are more perfect than us (like God),
They are more powerful than us.

Occult phenomena is attributed to demons,
Because it is not ultimately directed toward Perfect Goodness.

Priest who are not directed toward Perfect Goodness,
Might practice the occult.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Woah, a priest with occult powers? Tell me more.
“All creatures are patterned after God himself. Now effects most resemble their cause when they resemble its very way of causing, which in God’s case is by intelligence and will; so without created intelligences the universe would be incomplete. Since bodies and bodily powers cannot exercise intelligence (being limited to the here and now), a complete universe must contain creatures without bodies.”
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Since there are incremental levels of perfection,
And man has both a soul and body,
And God is Perfection,
There needs to be a being,
Who is not God (immaterial),
And not having a body (material).

These beings, who serve God, are called angels.
These angles who have rejected God (Perfect Goodness) are called demons.
Since these beings are more perfect than us (like God),
They are more powerful than us.

Occult phenomena is attributed to demons,
Because it is not ultimately directed toward Perfect Goodness.
Priest who are not directed toward Perfect Goodness,
Might practice the occult.
Click to expand...
 
StrawberryJam said:
Because none of us knows all. Realizing that, should humble anyone or any group/tribe.
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I don’t know if I responded your statement adequately.

Since God is Perfect Love,
Then he perfectly loves,
And since we can love,
And we are less perfect than God (Who is Perfection)
Then God can love perfectly, and is not simply an abstract principle.

Though we can start from a self-evident truth,
(Such as the Principle of Goodness)
Our reasoning can be imperfect,
And so have erroneous,
(And evil) conclusions.

Since God perfectly loves,
He perfectly loves humanity,
Then keeping them from unhappiness,
He would guarantee the Truth to be known,
And at any given point in time,
With infallible certainty.
 
Psychotheosophy said:
Since there are incremental levels of perfection,
And man has both a soul and body,
And God is Perfection,…
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Oh, and I hope I didn’t confuse you,
Angels and man can have perfection,
But are not Perfection itself.
 
Psychotheosophy said:
Oh, and I hope I didn’t confuse you,
Angels and man can have perfection,
But are not Perfection itself.
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Okay, thank you.

My thoughts are that anyone who has integrity, must realize when they are compartamentalizing the very thoughts they feel guide them.

I’m always happy to hear what your thoughts are.
 
hmmm. Man can be deceived only to a certain point. A for example, a person who is on an operating table and who’s brain is being manipulated can smell burnt toast, but knows that no burnt toast is around. They know they are being manipulated.

Thus, if a demon seeks to manipulate your man, they can only manipulate you to a point. Their deceit cannot be 100%. You will realize at one point or another that you are not in control. Hence, those with OCD who have unpleasant thoughts, though thought is a faculty of the person that they by all means should have control over, knows their evil thoughts are not their own.
 
TheQuestioner said:
hmmm. Man can be deceived only to a certain point. A for example, a person who is on an operating table and who’s brain is being manipulated can smell burnt toast, but knows that no burnt toast is around. They know they are being manipulated.

Thus, if a demon seeks to manipulate your man, they can only manipulate you to a point. Their deceit cannot be 100%. You will realize at one point or another that you are not in control. Hence, those with OCD who have unpleasant thoughts, though thought is a faculty of the person that they by all means should have control over, knows their evil thoughts are not their own.
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Does this mean that Satan mixes a certain amount of lies with truth in order for it to be somewhat believeable? In other words, he knows he can not use pure lies that people would see as pure lies, so he is so crafty that he mixes the lies with truth?

I’d rather not speculate on your example of demons seeking to manipulate “your man” simply because it is rather confusing. Do you mean the Father?
 
StrawberryJam said:
Self evident truths. Can they mean things that we can not know with certainty? But, rely on faith hope and love to understand?
I love, and have hope. I lack faith.
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All people naturally desire Happiness over unhappiness,
All people eternally desire Perfect Happiness over imperfect happiness.
(Imperfect happiness becomes very unhappy over a long period of time.)

To say Happiness is imperfect happiness is an error.
To say Happiness is Perfect Happiness is true.

Faith is the certainty of Perfect Happiness,
Since Perfect Happiness is not material,
Perfect Happiness is not self-evident,

Perfect Happiness also must be eternal,
Because nonexistence is an unhappy thought.

Do you believe that Perfect Happiness exists?

I hope I’m not confusing you.
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StrawberryJam said:
Self evident truths. Can they mean things that we can not know with certainty? But, rely on faith hope and love to understand?

I love, and have hope. I lack faith.
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I’m not getting a response,
So I don’t know what you’re thinking.

Maybe I can be more clear…

From the Theory of Evolution, we see that,
The Principle of Life doesn’t change,
But the body is changeable.
And we naturally desire
For it to not change,
To death (disunity).
There is a natural desire,
To remain united to the Principle of Life.
And so by reason, The Principle of Life can never be the body.

Yet people believe that The Principle of Life is not an absolute truth,
As if they are certain of it without being certain of it.

All people naturally desire Happiness in Principle.

By reason we know Happiness = Perfect Happiness
(Happiness can not lack Happiness)

By the experience of what we visibly see,
Happiness, at best, is imperfect happiness.

However,

By the experience of self-evidence,
Happiness is Perfect Happiness.
(Reason follows the natural desire for Existence)
(Reasonable Happiness follows the natural desire for Unity)

Miracles, visibly seen events,
Give faith to where faith is difficult.
But that which is visible, is not the cause of the miracle,
Rather it is caused externally to the visible (similar to Evolution).

(As I posted earlier, I am interested in Portugal,
But I’m also interested in Russia (Though I’m not Russian).
I am consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
If you ever have faith in God, would you consider joining me?)
 
Humility is actually a correct estimation of our value, just as Pride is an overestimation of our value.

People misunderstand pride because the word means several different things. A parent can be proud of their child if their child studies really hard and does well in school. The child can be proud of how well they did too. That is not the same thing as “being proud” in the sense of thinking one is better than they actually are.

If you really know your own value then you will be humble. Is thinking that you are God a sign of humility? Well if you actually are God then yes, because it is a correct estimation of your value.

Some people think the Pope isn’t humble because he thinks he is the head of the Church on Earth, the Supreme Pontiff, and all the other titles. Well he is those things so humility is not violated.
 
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