The New Lies Hidden in the Old, The Old is Revealed in the New

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TimothyH

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As they say, the The New Testament lies hidden in the Old Testament and the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament.

I thought I’d throw a few out for fun…

Both Tobias and Saul have scales on their eyes which fall off as they regain their sight. Tobias’ son annoints his father’s eyes with gall from a fish as he tells him the “good news” of what has happened and Tobias rejoices because he can see his son. Saul is set apart to bring the Gospel to the world after he sees the Son of God and scales fall off his eyes and he regains his sight as he is prayed over and baptized.

*Tobit started toward the door, and stumbled. But his son ran to him and took hold of his father, and he sprinkled the gall upon his father’s eyes, saying, “Be of good cheer, father.” And when his eyes began to smart he rubbed them, and the white films scaled off from the corners of his eyes. Then he saw his son and embraced him, and he wept and said, “Blessed art thou, O God, and blessed is thy name for ever, and blessed are all thy holy angels. For thou hast afflicted me, but thou hast had mercy upon me; here I see my son Tobias!” And his son went in rejoicing, and he reported to his father the great things that had happened to him in Media. (Tobit 11:10-15)

So Anani’as departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized, and took food and was strengthened. (Acts 9:17-19)*

-Tim-
 
Sometimes what is important are not the words which the writer or speaker quotes but where those words come from.

Jesus cleanses the Temple and reminds his listeners that it was called a “House of prayer” in the Old Testament and tells them that they have made it into a “den of robbers.”

He said to them, “It is written, `My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you make it a den of robbers.” (Matthew 21:13)

Jesus is using a rabbinical teaching technique where two small pieces of seemingly unrelated scripture are joined together and used very quickly. This was euphamistically called “banging” or “clicking” the two scriptures together to make make a statement or teach.

The phrase Den of robbers is from Jerimiah 7 where the prophet accuses the Israelites of hypocrisy in that they praise God with words even as they steal, murder, commit adultery and lie.

Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, burn incense to Ba’al, and go after other gods that you have not known, and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, `We are delivered!’ – only to go on doing all these abominations? Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I myself have seen it, says the LORD. (Jerimiah 7:9-11)

The statement “house of prayer” would have been recognized from Isaiah 56 as a reference to brining non-Jews into God’s covenant family.

every one who keeps the sabbath, and does not profane it,
and holds fast my covenant –
these I will bring to my holy mountain,
and make them joyful in my house of prayer;
their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
Thus says the Lord GOD,
who gathers the outcasts of Israel,
I will gather yet others to him
besides those already gathered."
(Isaiah 56:6-8)

Jesus is clicking the two little phrases “house of prayer” and “den of robbers” together to very quickly to bring the attention of his audience to both Jerimiah 7 and Isaiah 56. He is making the point that the Jewish authorities are hypocrites and that non-Jews will soon be admitted to God’s covenant family.

-Tim-
 
Tim,

Thank you for sharing that. I didn’t know that about the ‘den of robbers/house of prayer’ meaning. I never caught that before.

Isn’t God’s Word awesome!?? 🙂 Pure joy and chock full of discovery. I kiss it and I wish I were a nun so I could study it all day long. (Well, I guess even nuns have to do chores too!) I guess we all have to learn how to take only an omer-full for the day. ;)😃

Its sad that some people think of the Bible as a ‘boring book’. :eek: They have no idea what they are missing! I feel sorry for them.
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Tim,

Thank you for sharing that. I didn’t know that about the ‘den of robbers/house of prayer’ meaning. I never caught that before.

Isn’t God’s Word awesome!?? 🙂 Pure joy and chock full of discovery. I kiss it and I wish I were a nun so I could study it all day long. (Well, I guess even nuns have to do chores too!) I guess we all have to learn how to take only an omer-full for the day. ;)😃

Its sad that some people think of the Bible as a ‘boring book’. :eek: They have no idea what they are missing! I feel sorry for them.
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Omer… that’s a good one!

An omer a day is all we ask. 😃

I knew a woman who used to move her hand over the page as she read it. I thought it was a tick or nervous activity, but I realized after a while that she was caressing God’s word. You are a woman after my heart.

I’ll post one more and then maybe some tomorrow…
 
Jesus is the New Moses.

God takes some of Moses spirit and places it on the 70 elders.

And the LORD said to Moses, "Gather for me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom you know to be the elders of the people and officers over them; and bring them to the tent of meeting, and let them take their stand there with you. So Moses went out and told the people the words of the LORD; and he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people, and placed them round about the tent. Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took some of the spirit that was upon him and put it upon the seventy elders; and when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did so no more. (Numbers 11:16,24-25)

God in the person of Jesus Christ personally appoints seventy and they bear God’s spirit and command the authority of God.

After this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to come. The seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” (Luke 10:1,17)

-Tim-
 
Israel worships the golden calf at Mt. Sinai and the Levites are commanded to kill those who did so.

And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. (Exodus 32:28)

The Holy Spirit is poured out upon the Church at Pentacost in the Book of Acts, Peter speaks and many are added to the Church.

So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)

Three thousand were killed at Mt. Sinai and three thousand were added at Pentacost. Even the wording is remarkably similar. Pentacost is shown to be a reversal of Mt. Sinai.

-Tim-
 
There was a king named Jeroboam who lived in Bethel. Jeroboam did not follow God’s commandments, worshiping and sacrificing to false Gods. A prophet came to Jeroboam to curse him, saying that his kingdom would be torn from him and his altars would be torn down.

So he went another way, and did not return by the way that he came to Bethel. (1 Kings 13:10)

There was a king named Herod in Jerusalem. Herod did not follow God’s commandments, worshiping and sacrificing to false Gods. Magi from the east came to worship the newborn king of the Jews. Herod asked them to find the newborn king so that he might worship, but he lied and intended to kill the newborn king.

And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way. (Matthew 2:12)

That the the Magi returned by another way shows that the curse of Jeroboam was also on Herod. Based on the description given by Josephus, historians believe that Herod died of kidney failure together with gangrene.

-Tim-
 
Sirach tells us that if we forgive, we will be forgiven when we pray.

Forgive your neighbor the wrong he has done,
and then your sins will be pardoned when you pray.
(Sirach 28:2)

Jesus teaches us to pray the Lord’s Prayer, and tells us the same thing immediately after, that we will be forgiven if we forgive.

For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14:15)

-Tim-
 
It’s called ‘the confirming law’:

“And the Lord said unto Moses, come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.” (Exodus 24:12)

And he gave unto Moses when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of the testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. (Exodus 31:18)

“Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the Testimony were in his hand. The tables were written on both sides; on the one side and on the other they were written.” (Exodus 32:15, also Exodus 34:1 & 28 and Deut. 4:13, Ezek. 3:1-4)

“Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart.” (Proverbs 3:3)

“Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.” (Proverbs 4:21)

“Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.” (Proverbs 7:3)

Ezekiel 11:19:
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will **take the stony heart **out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 36:26:
A **new heart **also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will **take away the stony heart **out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

“Forasmuch as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.” (2 Cor. 3:3)

There were initially **2 tables **(“Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?” (Amos 3:3) but verses after that say the table, and verses after that clarify it as ‘table of your heart’. Therefore, it means that God writes His commandments on the table of our heart.

The fact there were initially 2 tables means agreeing. Verses that agree (repeat each other/confirm) is *the * interpreting method to use for these writings. This method reveals the otherworldly component to God’s amazing writings. It’s also a way to determine if writings are truly inspired by God.

By this method is the heart made new as the stony heart (stone table/hard heart) is changed to a heart of flesh.
 
TimothyH said:
Sirach tells us that if we forgive, we will be forgiven when we pray.

Forgive your neighbor the wrong he has done,
and then your sins will be pardoned when you pray.
(Sirach 28:2)

Jesus teaches us to pray the Lord’s Prayer, and tells us the same thing immediately after, that we will be forgiven if we forgive.

For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14:15)

-Tim-
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But it is also written:

“Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against you, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him” (Luke 17:3)

“Moreover** if thy brother shall trespass against thee**, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone…but if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more…and if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect ot hear the church, let him be to you as an heathen man and a publican.” (Matt. 18:15-16)
 
dmwessel said:
The fact there were initially 2 tables means agreeing. Verses that agree (repeat each other/confirm) is *the * interpreting method to use for these writings. This method reveals the otherworldly component to God’s amazing writings. It’s also a way to determine if writings are truly inspired by God.
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Catholics do not subscribe to the idea that the Bible interprets itself, if that is what you are talking about.

For Catholics, the Sacred Scriptures are interpreted along with Sacred Tradition (revealed truth outside of the Bible) in the context of the Church which guards against error. Without the divine guidance of the Church established by Christ, we surely fall into error.

Catholics do not believe that the Bible interprets itself apart from the Church. The Bible apart from the Church is like a mountain road without guardrails. That is our belief.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
No. You think that I am but I am not.
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I beg to differ Timothy: whenever you use Biblical same words and/or phrases to make a point, you are using what I call ‘the law of confirming’ - which is the method for correctly interpreting the Bible. 🤷

Mind you, it’s not well known - in its infancy really. Certainly the Protestants don’t know about it at all.

I would have thought that you would have been excited about it, for one thing because it takes the onus off of us to do the interpreting and correctness of doctrine is ensured so that we are no longer “tossed about by every wind of doctrine” (Eph. 4:14).
 
dmwessel said:
I beg to differ Timothy: whenever you use Biblical same words and/or phrases to make a point, you are using what I call ‘the law of confirming’ - which is the method for correctly interpreting the Bible. 🤷

Mind you, it’s not well known - in its infancy really. Certainly the Protestants don’t know about it at all.

I would have thought that you would have been excited about it, for one thing because it takes the onus off of us to do the interpreting and correctness of doctrine is ensured so that we are no longer “tossed about by every wind of doctrine” (Eph. 4:14).
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Please… :confused:

I am the one doing what I am doing. I am conscious of what I am doing. I have full knowledge of what I am doing. I assure you that what you describe is not what I am doing. I am not using the Bible to interpret the Bible. You say that is what I am doing but it is not. I am doing exactly what the title of my thread states.

What you describe has been used by Jehovah’s Witnesses to try to convince me that Catholicism is wrong. My evangelical friends use your principal, that the Bible interprets the Bible. They compare all kinds of Bible verses and when they see passages that confirm each other they believe that the Bible has interpreted itself. What they have done is stumble upon the principal of the unity of scripture.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Please… :confused:

I am the one doing what I am doing. I am conscious of what I am doing. I have full knowledge of what I am doing. I assure you that what you describe is not what I am doing. I am not using the Bible to interpret the Bible.

You say that is what I am doing but it is not.

-Tim-
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By your reaction you would think that I had just said that you were swearing or something:eek:
 
dmwessel said:
By your reaction you would think that I had just said that you were swearing or something:eek:
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Again you tell me what I am doing. :confused:

I know my reaction because I am the one having it, and again I assure you that what you say my reaction is really isn’t. I have a smile on my face. See → 😃

I know plenty of people who use the law of confirming, though they may not call it by that exact name. It is not a Catholic way to interpret scripture. I don’t do it. I believe in the unity of Scripture but not the law of confirming.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Israel worships the golden calf at Mt. Sinai and the Levites are commanded to kill those who did so.

And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. (Exodus 32:28)

The Holy Spirit is poured out upon the Church at Pentacost in the Book of Acts, Peter speaks and many are added to the Church.

So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)

Three thousand were killed at Mt. Sinai and three thousand were added at Pentacost. Even the wording is remarkably similar. Pentacost is shown to be a reversal of Mt. Sinai.

-Tim-
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I read that Pentecost was a reversal of the Tower of Babel, where voices were confused and people could not understand each other, whereas as Pentecost, even foreigners understood the proclamations of the apostles.

But, yes, the number three thousand is common to those two accounts.
 
TimothyH said:
Please… :confused:

I am the one doing what I am doing. I am conscious of what I am doing. I have full knowledge of what I am doing. I assure you that what you describe is not what I am doing. I am not using the Bible to interpret the Bible. You say that is what I am doing but it is not. I am doing exactly what the title of my thread states.

What you describe has been used by Jehovah’s Witnesses to try to convince me that Catholicism is wrong. My evangelical friends use your principal, that the Bible interprets the Bible. They compare all kinds of Bible verses and when they see passages that confirm each other they believe that the Bible has interpreted itself. What they have done is stumble upon the principal of the unity of scripture.

-Tim-
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I am not a Jehovah’s Witnesses and would never encourage anyone to be one. And if the JW’s truly followed this law, then their religion would be nonexistent. I’ve spoken to many of them and never heard any of them speaking about this.
 
dmwessel said:
I am not a Jehovah’s Witnesses and would never encourage anyone to be one. And if the JW’s truly followed this law, then their religion would be nonexistent. I’ve spoken to many of them and never heard any of them speaking about this.
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Two men from the Jehovah’s Witness religion sat at my kitchen table and told me that the Church did not need to interpret scripture but that scripture interpreted itself. They then proceeded to go through some verses which corresponded to other verses elsewhere, flipping back and forth, showing me verses that “agree” as you put it.

-Tim-
 
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