The new Mass being a Sacrifice

[Monica4316]

Hi,

Can anyone provide me with any specific arguments for how the new Mass (the OF) is still a Sacrifice that the priest offers? (not just one that the “general assembly” offers, but the priest, in a special way).

By the way I am not debating this point! Just trying to understand.

thanks!

 

[YoungTradCath]

It’s the re-presentation of the sacrifice on Calvary that happened 2000 years ago.

 

[Monica4316]

It’s the re-presentation of the sacrifice on Calvary that happened 2000 years ago.

I do know this… but I mean - I’m looking for evidence for how the new Mass (Novus Ordo) is still seen as a Sacrifice offered by a priest. I do think it is that, but I know some don’t believe the same way. So I was wondering if there’s anything in the Mass, in any documents, etc, that suggests this. I know that it’s very explicit in the TLM.

 

[GelasianumVetus]

The idea that the entire community (the Church), offers the sacrifice, through the person of the sacred minister and in union with him, is quite ancient. The priest offers, and it is necessary for a priest to offer, but it is truly the whole Church that offers, because it is truly the whole Christ who offers (not just His head), and the Church is His body. The head is necessary, but the whole body offers.

When you say that it is clear in the TLM that the priest offers a sacrifice, I suppose you are referring to the offertory prayers, specifically the first one, because it is one of the only prayers of the Mass which are in the first person (a personal prayer of the priest).

However, this prayer is much newer than much of the rest of the Mass, and certainly much newer than the Roman Canon. Note that the Roman Canon always talks in the third person “To you, therefore we come most merciful Father…” “We offer to you, God of glory and majesty”, etc. The Roman Canon is clear in sacrificial language, and is still used today.

For more see Pius XII, Mediator Dei, 80-92:

The offertory prayers were reformed, not because anyone wanted to get rid of the idea of the priest offering a sacrifice (else why were the “Orate fratres” and its response kept?"), but because they were duplicating what is going to be done in the Eucharistic Prayer. Everything one needs to understand that a sacrifice is being offered, and that the priest is doing it, can be found in the Eucharistic prayer, though the Eucharistic Prayer doesn’t go into the theological niceties of exactly how the offering of the priest is different from the offering of the people. The simple fact that a priest is necessary in the newer rite shows that something more is going on than merely “an offering of the community”.

For actual texts, like I suggested above, the response to the Orate fratres seems sufficient: “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands…”

 

[Monica4316]

The idea that the entire community (the Church), offers the sacrifice, through the person of the sacred minister and in union with him, is quite ancient. The priest offers, and it is necessary for a priest to offer, but it is truly the whole Church that offers, because it is truly the whole Christ who offers (not just His head), and the Church is His body. The head is necessary, but the whole body offers.

When you say that it is clear in the TLM that the priest offers a sacrifice, I suppose you are referring to the offertory prayers, specifically the first one, because it is one of the only prayers of the Mass which are in the first person (a personal prayer of the priest).

However, this prayer is much newer than much of the rest of the Mass, and certainly much newer than the Roman Canon. Note that the Roman Canon always talks in the third person “To you, therefore we come most merciful Father…” “We offer to you, God of glory and majesty”, etc. The Roman Canon is clear in sacrificial language, and is still used today.

For more see Pius XII, Mediator Dei, 80-92:

The offertory prayers were reformed, not because anyone wanted to get rid of the idea of the priest offering a sacrifice (else why were the “Orate fratres” and its response kept?"), but because they were duplicating what is going to be done in the Eucharistic Prayer. Everything one needs to understand that a sacrifice is being offered, and that the priest is doing it, can be found in the Eucharistic prayer, though the Eucharistic Prayer doesn’t go into the theological niceties of exactly how the offering of the priest is different from the offering of the people. The simple fact that a priest is necessary in the newer rite shows that something more is going on than merely “an offering of the community”.

For actual texts, like I suggested above, the response to the Orate fratres seems sufficient: “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands…”

thanks for the reply… I read a commentary that said that the response “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands” refers to the offering of the bread and wine before the Consecration, rather than afterwards… however, there is a part after the Consecration that says "In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup". Is that referring to the Sacrifice?

Do you know if in the ordination of priests, it talks about the priests offering sacrifice to God?

 

[Timothysis]

I read a commentary that said that the response “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands” refers to the offering of the bread and wine before the Consecration, rather than afterwards… however, there is a part after the Consecration that says "In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup". Is that referring to the Sacrifice?

It is “life-giving bread, this saving cup” precisely because it is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. The response "when we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death Lord Jesus" comes straight from Saint Paul and I doubt that anyone would question him as to the offering of the Mass as being a sacrifice. What does the Church say about the Mass?

*"Hence, the Mass, the Lord’s Supper, is at the same time and inseparably:

1. A sacrifice in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated
2. a memorial of the death and resurrection of the Lord, who said “do this in memory of me” (Lk. 22:19).
3. a sacred banquet in which, through the communion of the Body and Blood of the Lord, the People of God share the benefits of the Paschal Sacrifice, renew the New Covenant which God has made with man once for all through the Blood of Christ. *(Instruction on the Worship of the Eucharistic Mystery Eucharisticum Mysterium, #C1."

Do you know if in the ordination of priests, it talks about the priests offering sacrifice to God?

This question sounds very subversive. The Mass is, by definition, a sacrifice. Priests are ordained for the express purpose of serving their bishop in the offering of the sacraments, especially the sacrifice of the Mass. If a priest is not ordained for that purpose, then for what is he ordained?

 

[The_Old_Medic]

The real question is, Why are YOU questioning this?

The Church has not changed its definition of the Mass in the past 50 years. In no way has it taught that there is any difference in the Mass itself. They just changed it to the common languages of the people.

I can not help but wonder just why YOU are even asking for affirmation that the past, and present teachings of our church about the Mass is correct?

It is indeed very simple. ANY validly ordained Priest (and all Bishop’s, etc. are Priests) can, and does, have God create the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus during the Mass. The sacrifice occurs when he (and we) eat that body and drink that blood.

 

[ProVobis]

The Church has not changed its definition of the Mass in the past 50 years.

No and yes.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=603116

 

[Monica4316]

No and yes.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=603116

I don’t quite understand, sorry… I looked at the link and it suggests that the definition of the Mass became more Protestant? why then “no and yes”?

Do you mean that the original Novus Ordo GIRM phrasing was later revised to this, more Catholic sounding version that I found in the current GIRM?

1. At Massthat is, the Lord’s Supperthe People of God is called together, with a priest presiding and acting in the person of Christ, to celebrate the memorial of the Lord, the Eucharistic Sacrifice.[37] For this reason Christ’s promise applies in an outstanding way to such a local gathering of the holy Church: “Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in their midst” (Mt 18:20). For in the celebration of Mass, in which the Sacrifice of the Cross is perpetuated,[38] Christ is really present in the very liturgical assembly gathered in his name, in the person of the minister, in his word, and indeed substantially and continuously under the Eucharistic species.[39]

So it’s okay in the current version?

 

[Monica4316]

The real question is, Why are YOU questioning this?

The Church has not changed its definition of the Mass in the past 50 years. In no way has it taught that there is any difference in the Mass itself. They just changed it to the common languages of the people.

I can not help but wonder just why YOU are even asking for affirmation that the past, and present teachings of our church about the Mass is correct?

It is indeed very simple. ANY validly ordained Priest (and all Bishop’s, etc. are Priests) can, and does, have God create the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus during the Mass. The sacrifice occurs when he (and we) eat that body and drink that blood.

because the liturgy and certain wording did change.

 

[ProVobis]

Do you mean that the original Novus Ordo GIRM phrasing was later revised to this, more Catholic sounding version that I found in the current GIRM?

Yes, the “Eucharistic Sacrifice” phrase was added to something that had already been signed by the Pope, although the Sacrifice wasn’t really explained. But the text of the Mass was not changed.

Do you or anyone else have the older (pre-V2) definition of the Mass handy? Other than in the Baltimore Catechism, that is.

 

[PacoG]

thanks for the reply… I read a commentary that said that the response “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands” refers to the offering of the bread and wine before the Consecration, rather than afterwards… however, there is a part after the Consecration that says "In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup". Is that referring to the Sacrifice?

All you have to do to refute those sede vacantist websites that you are probably reading is look to the wordings of the four main Eucharistic Prayers. They have many references to sacrifice. If you actually read the prayers, instead of going on the half-truths and outright lies of those anti-Ordinary Form Mass web pages, you would see the sacrificial language is everywhere.

Eucharistic Prayer I (The Roman Canon) Memorial Prayer

---

And from the many gifts you have given us
we offer to you, God of glory and majesty,
this holy and perfect SACRIFICE;

---

Eucharistic Prayer II Memorial Prayer
May all of us who share in the body and blood
of Christ
be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit

---

Eucharistic Prayer III

---

And so, Father, we bring you these gifts.
We ask you to make them holy by the power of
your Spirit
that they may become the BODY AND BLOOD
of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
at whose command we celebrate this EUCHARIST.

---

Memorial Prayer of EP III
Father, calling to mind the death your Son
endured for our salvation,
his glorious resurrection and ascension into heaven,
and ready to greet him when he comes again,
we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living SACRIFICE.

---

Lord, may this SACRIFICE,
which has made our peace with you…

---

Eucharistic Prayer 4 Memorial Prayer
Father, we now celebrate this memorial of our redemption.
We recall Christ’s death, his descent among the dead,
his resurrection, and his ascension to your right hand;
and, looking forward to his coming in glory, we
offer you his body and blood,
the acceptable SACRIFICE
which brings salvation to the whole world.

Lord, look upon this SACRIFICE which you have give to your Church
and by your Holy Spirit, gather all who share in this one bread and one cup
into the one body of Christ, a living SACRIFICE of praise.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

The words of Consecration did NOT change. They are exactly the same, no matter what language they are in. There is nothing magic about Latin (although far too many Catholics seem to put some magical qualities to that language).

Keep in mind that Jesus did NOT speak Latin.

And that for the first several centuries of the Church, the local language was always used for the Mass. And that the Eastern Catholic Churches have ALWAYS used their local languages, and never used Latin for their Liturgy at any time, and they still do not.

You are placing WAY to much emphasis on what surrounds the Consecration, and very little emphasis on what actually matters, the Consecration itself.

 

[ProVobis]

The words of Consecration did NOT change. They are exactly the same, no matter what language they are in.

The translation has indeed clouded the issue. Hoc est enim Corpus Meam means only one thing, that a consecration has taken place, where “Hoc” refers not to the bread but the flesh of Christ. OTOH, the English “This is My Body” can mean different things. And the word “sacrifice” can mean different things in everyday English usage. No matter how many times you find it in the liturgy, unless it relates specifically to burnt offerings of a most precious victim, you are just reiterating a word.

As to the point of Sacrifice, the Catechism of Trent seems to explain it better than the altered and realtered definitions presented in 1969.

The Eucharist as a Sacrifice

We must now proceed to explain its nature as a Sacrifice, that pastors may understand what are the principal instructions which they ought to impart to the faithful on Sundays and holy days, regarding this mystery in conformity with the decree of the holy Council (of Trent).

Importance Of Instruction On The Mass

This Sacrament is not only a treasure of heavenly riches, which if turned to good account will obtain for us the grace and love of God; but it also possesses a peculiar character, by which we are enabled to make some return to God for the immense benefits bestowed upon us.

How grateful and acceptable to God is this victim, if duly and legitimately immolated, is inferred from the following consideration. Of the sacrifices of the Old Law it is written: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldst not; and again: If thou hadst desired sacrifice, I would indeed have given it: with burnt*offerings thou wilt not be delighted. Now if these were so pleasing in the Lord’s sight that, as the Scripture testifies, from them God smelled a sweet savour, that is to say, they were grateful and acceptable to Him; what have we not to hope from that Sacrifice in which is immolated and offered He Himself of whom a voice from heaven twice proclaimed: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This mystery, therefore, pastors should carefully explain, so that when the faithful are assembled at the celebration of divine service, they may learn to meditate with attention and devotion on the sacred things at which they are present.

Distinction of Sacrament and Sacrifice

They should teach, then, in the first place, that the Eucharist was instituted by Christ for two purposes: one, that it might be the heavenly food of our souls, enabling us to support and preserve spiritual life; and the other, that the Church might have a perpetual Sacrifice, by which our sins might be expiated, and our heavenly Father, oftentimes grievously offended by our crimes, might be turned away from wrath to mercy, from the severity of just chastisement to clemency. Of this thing we may observe a type and resemblance in the Paschal lamb, which was wont to be offered and eaten by the children of Israel as a sacrament and a sacrifice.

Nor could our Saviour, when about to offer Himself to God the Father on the altar of the cross, have given any more illustrious indication of His unbounded love towards us than by bequeathing to us a visible Sacrifice, by which that bloody Sacrifice, which was soon after to be offered once on the cross, would be renewed, and its memory daily celebrated with the greatest utility, unto the consummation of ages by the Church diffused throughout the world.

But (between the Eucharist as a Sacrament and a Sacrifice) the difference is very great; for as a Sacrament it is perfected by consecration; as a Sacrifice, all its force consists in its oblation. When, therefore, kept in a pyx, or borne to the sick, it is a Sacrament, not a Sacrifice. As a Sacrament also, it is to them that receive it a source of merit, and brings with it all those advantages which have been already mentioned; but as a Sacrifice, it is not only a source of merit, but also of satisfaction. For as, in His Passion, Christ the Lord merited and satisfied for us; so also those who offer this Sacrifice, by which they communicate with us, merit the fruit of His Passion, and satisfy.

The Mass Is a True Sacrifice

Proof From The Council Of Trent

With regard to the institution of this Sacrifice, the holy Council of Trent has left no room for doubt, by declaring that it was instituted by our Lord at His Last Supper; while it condemns under anathema all those who assert that in it is not offered to God a true and proper Sacrifice; or that to offer means nothing else than that Christ is given as our spiritual food.

Nor did (the Council) omit carefully to explain that to God alone is offered this Sacrifice. For although the Church sometimes offers Masses in honour and in memory of the Saints, yet she teaches that the Sacrifice is offered, not to them, but to God alone, who has crowned the Saints with immortal glory. Hence the priest never says: I offer Sacrifice to thee Peter, or to thee Paul; but, while he offers Sacrifice to God alone, he renders Him thanks for the signal victory won by the blessed martyrs, and thus implores their patronage, that they, whose memory we celebrate on earth, may vouchsafe to intercede for us in heaven."

Proof From Scripture
This doctrine, handed down by the Catholic Church, concerning the truth of this Sacrifice, she received from the words of our Lord, when, on that last night, committing to His Apostles these same sacred mysteries, He said: Do this for a commemoration of me; for then, as was defined by the holy Council, He ordained them priests, and commanded that they and their successors in the priestly office, should immolate and offer His body.

…
more at catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/catechism/Holy7Sacraments-Eucharist.shtml

 

[porthos11]

All you have to do to refute those sede vacantist websites that you are probably reading is look to the wordings of the four main Eucharistic Prayers. They have many references to sacrifice. If you actually read the prayers, instead of going on the half-truths and outright lies of those anti-Ordinary Form Mass web pages, you would see the sacrificial language is everywhere.

Eucharistic Prayer I (The Roman Canon) Memorial Prayer

---

And from the many gifts you have given us
we offer to you, God of glory and majesty,
this holy and perfect SACRIFICE;

---

Eucharistic Prayer II Memorial Prayer
May all of us who share in the body and blood
of Christ
be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit

---

Eucharistic Prayer III

---

And so, Father, we bring you these gifts.
We ask you to make them holy by the power of
your Spirit
that they may become the BODY AND BLOOD
of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
at whose command we celebrate this EUCHARIST.

---

Memorial Prayer of EP III
Father, calling to mind the death your Son
endured for our salvation,
his glorious resurrection and ascension into heaven,
and ready to greet him when he comes again,
we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living SACRIFICE.

---

Lord, may this SACRIFICE,
which has made our peace with you…

---

Eucharistic Prayer 4 Memorial Prayer
Father, we now celebrate this memorial of our redemption.
We recall Christ’s death, his descent among the dead,
his resurrection, and his ascension to your right hand;
and, looking forward to his coming in glory, we
offer you his body and blood,
the acceptable SACRIFICE
which brings salvation to the whole world.

Lord, look upon this SACRIFICE which you have give to your Church
and by your Holy Spirit, gather all who share in this one bread and one cup
into the one body of Christ, a living SACRIFICE of praise.

And do not forget the Orate Fratres in the Ordinary Form, which still literally says (and will say in English later this year):

Pray, brethren (brothers and sisters),
that my sacrifice and yours
may be acceptable to God,
the almighty Father.