The New Orthodox Study Bible

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My opinion is that the Orthodox churches do not teach anything that the Roman Catholic church would consider heretical. Therefore, anything the Orthodox church teaches is ok for a Roman Catholic communicant to learn.

You may feel differently.
The Roman Catholic Church does happen to view some Orthodox teachings as heretical - not all the ones I don’t like, such as Palamism, hesychism, mysticism, essence-energies, lack of filioque, etc., but the Orthodox Church does teach that the Holy Father is not the Holy Father, and is not infallible, and rejects the last 14 Ecumenical Councils, while having performed some ecumenical councils (called by a different name, like Constantinople 5/the Hesychast Councils) of their own. I believe this is heresy.

I don’t mean to judge Orthodoxy, but to speak the truth about it: it is ethnic, it has been crushed by Mahometans since the sack of Constantinople in 1453, they practise the self-hypnosis called hesychasm and call it prayer…

To clarify, as well, what I mean by “Byzantine theology is dead”, is that in the Orthodox churches at least - I don’t know if there’s a different tradition amongst Eastern Catholics - there is no place for logic, rationality, and proper philosophical (or Thomist) theology, as they are “corrupt Western imports and influences”, “destroy the therapeutic tradition of [happy go-lucky, don’t try to test it, Easter Bunny] belief in our religion”, “make the Catholic church too institutionalised compared to the beautiful organic-ness of the Orthodox church”, etc. (direct quotes out of memory from my previous church - which was Orthodox) and only the self-hypnotic “vision of God” is considered “correct theology”.

The only other religion that dislikes the West and everything that comes from it and hates any improvement or innovation more than Eastern Orthodoxy is Mahometanism, and in Mahometanism, you see a complete hatred of everything even slightly Western (even stuff that doesn’t have to do with religion, like computers, our automobiles, or the printing press, whereas Orthodoxy generally accepts these things), and a complete hatred (it carries the death penalty in most Mahometan countries) for any, even the slightest, improvement or change in religion - so Mahometanism on the whole seems to be stuck back in the bellicose, paedophilic 7th century tribal Arabian Peninsula.

Now, Orthodoxy isn’t nearly this bad (to borrow an expression, on a scale of 0 to 100, 0 being bad and 100 being good, if Islam is a 0, Orthodoxy is somewhere in the 60s or 70s) but it has a similar penchant for worshiping the past for the past’s own sake, and rejecting any and all outside influences as necessarily evil: I am trying to use this as an illustration, that when the past becomes the “glorious past” just because of nostalgia, and strict conservatism is held to for no reason other than to be conservative, and it begins to drive a separation or schism from the rest of the world, or the rest of religion, that accepts small amounts of change and doesn’t rest on it’s laurels, taken to an extreme as such, is not healthy, but is lethal to the tradition that maintains it.
 
The Roman Catholic Church…
I believe you mean the Catholic Church, as in the universal Catholic Church, not just the Latin (or Roman) Church that is part of the communion of 23 sui irius Churches that make up the Catholic Church.
 
but I really liked the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom when I was attending an Orthodox Church.
I have to agree there. And the architecture of Orthodox Churches is generally a lot nicer and more conducive to a reverent attitude and worship than a lot of the sterile post-Vatican II Catholic Churches there are.
 
I believe you mean the Catholic Church, as in the universal Catholic Church, not just the Latin (or Roman) Church that is part of the communion of 23 sui irius Churches that make up the Catholic Church.
Yes, I did mean the Catholic Church - I apologise, for my time as an Orthodox left me wary of using the word “Catholic” unqualified, as the Orthodox call themselves the “Catholic Church” - I would edit my post, but I can not as the time limit has expired. I ask forgiveness for any misrepresentation I may have caused, as I did not mean to exclude Eastern Catholics from the Catholic Church, as they are as much in communion with the Bishop of Rome as the Western Church is.
 
Yes, I did mean the Catholic Church - I apologise, for my time as an Orthodox left me wary of using the word “Catholic” unqualified, as the Orthodox call themselves the “Catholic Church” - I would edit my post, but I can not as the time limit has expired. I ask forgiveness for any misrepresentation I may have caused, as I did not mean to exclude Eastern Catholics from the Catholic Church, as they are as much in communion with the Bishop of Rome as the Western Church is.
I totally understand. Thanks for the clarification.
 
The Orthodox have no such doctrine, know of no such doctrine.

That is not a teaching.

Orthodox also do not have a teaching against, nor for, a flat earth. 🙂

What Orthodox teach is not heretical, which is why Orthodox theology does not come up in discussions between the churches. Only Roman Catholic theology becomes the basis for talking points.

Pope Benedict (as Cardinal Ratzinger) made that clear when he made his famous statement …
Rome must not require more from the East with respect to the doctrine of primacy than had been formulated and was lived in the first millennium …

Of course they don’t. The Orthodox Church has been without participation in the Universal Church for a thousand years. Stick with divirce and remarriage if you want to explore heresy. What, exactly, is the Orthodox teaching and how does it compare to say, the Scripture? Why is it different?
 
Hopefully, this thread won’t de-rail the ecumenical gains between Rome and Constantinople since the early sixties . . . 😉

It’s my hope, anyway.

Alex
 
Hopefully, this thread won’t de-rail the ecumenical gains between Rome and Constantinople since the early sixties . . . 😉

It’s my hope, anyway.

Alex
In fond regard of Archbishop Vsevolod of Skopelos and of Archbishop Elias Zoghby of Baalbek I also hope not. May their memories be eternal.

prayers …
 
Amen!!

Our brother Khalid doesn’t seem to realize that Rome is on better terms with Orthodoxy than with Eastern Catholics.

UGCCers know that for a fact . . .

Alex
 
No, I did not realise that. I am not a lifelong Catholic, and do not know everything about Catholicism and the politics involved. I assumed (seemingly incorrectly) that because Eastern Catholics are in full communion with Rome, they must be in better standing, so to speak, than Orthodox, which are schismatic.
 
No, I did not realise that. I am not a lifelong Catholic, and do not know everything about Catholicism and the politics involved. I assumed (seemingly incorrectly) that because Eastern Catholics are in full communion with Rome, they must be in better standing, so to speak, than Orthodox, which are schismatic.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church;
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
 
I had lunch with Archbishop Cyril Vasil secretary of the Congregation for the Eastern Churches…his take on things is we Byzantines should be billing ourselves as Orthodox in Communion with Rome and that it is about time we start acting the part as well.

Maybe it is about time we start doing so.

His point was there is NO difference ( or should be NO difference) in what we as EC and the Orthodox believe and there should be no difference in our praxis.
 
Holy Orthodoxy has been the universal church since Pentacost.
I’m starting to get your point. Sorry for my dumbness. The concept you advance is that the papacy was invented in 1054 (or thereabouts) and Holy Orthodoxy eschewed that heresy in favor of joining league with various worldly powers. That’s cute.

So how do you like the Little Mermaid movie? Documentaries always move me too!

But let me ask agian, maybe you’ll answer. The concept of divorce and remarriage. How’s that fit in with Holy Orthodoxy and the Bible?
 
I’m starting to get your point. Sorry for my dumbness. The concept you advance is that the papacy was invented in 1054 (or thereabouts) and Holy Orthodoxy eschewed that heresy in favor of joining league with various worldly powers. That’s cute.

So how do you like the Little Mermaid movie? Documentaries always move me too!

But let me ask agian, maybe you’ll answer. The concept of divorce and remarriage. How’s that fit in with Holy Orthodoxy and the Bible?
LOL. Joining league with worldly powers? Pot calling the kettle black much?
 
I’m starting to get your point. Sorry for my dumbness. The concept you advance is that the papacy was invented in 1054 (or thereabouts)
Not nearly so early.
The concept of divorce and remarriage. How’s that fit in with Holy Orthodoxy and the Bible?
It is rather sad that you go down this road. It is sure to derail the thread.

I think you should know that remarriage is not considered a right, and it’s granting is not ‘the norm’, it is sometimes allowed under certain circumstances.

To my knowledge it has never been discussed in reunion talks. If anyone has more information on that point I would be interested to hear it.

Suffice it to say that the pastoral practices you object to precede the schism, when we (Orthodox and Catholics) were all “supposedly” under the Papacy (the one that you might claim did not start in 1054AD), and nary a complaint from Rome! So in fact when Roman Catholics claim the Catholic church never allowed divorce and remarriage, it is simply untrue.

It doesn’t even appear as a complaint in the Bull of excommunication presented by Cardinals Frederic and Humbert, where one might think it would have taken on a primary and urgent importance, if it was indeed a matter of theological teaching. Of all the fantasies, lies and insults the Cardinals did write down they could have at least mentioned this to give the document some credibility, if there was a perceived problem with the practice.

Perhaps they did not because the hierarchs of the day did not see ecclesiastical divorce in the form of an annulment as any better nor much different, but rather a sometimes necessary act of kindness and healing for some hurt souls whole are striving to put family life back together and stay plugged in to church and faith.

Even today these pastoral practices are not mentioned when the Papacy discusses reconciliation matters with the Orthodox. It certainly was not mentioned by Cardinal Ratzinger in his famous statement quoted elsewhere above.

Then there is the matter of the Petrine Privilige …
 
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