The "New Rome"?

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There is always only one highest chair or position of honor and lessor honors beneath that.
Mark 10:42-43
But Jesus calling them, saith to them: You know that they who seem to rule over the Gentiles, lord it over them: and their princes have power over them. But it is not so among you: but whosoever will be greater, shall be your minister.

Eph 2:19-20
Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and the domestics of God, Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone:

Rev. 21:14

“….and the wall of the city with its twelve foundations, upon which were inscribed the twelve names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb…”
 
First of all where in the world did you get the idea that there have been no councils in 1100 years? You really should study a little before you make a statement like that on a public forum. You’ve already expressed your ignorance of the largest Orthodox Church on the planet. Why compound it by making more statements about things you don’t understand?
Why do you constantly see fit to employ ad hominem attacks rather than answer questions and state facts and teach those who are asking for clarification? I don’t really feel like you are being sincere in signing “yours in Christ” after suffering the vitriol.

There’s no need to get hostile and talk past me. When was your last “Accepted” Ecumenical council meeting? How do Orthodox codify what they even consider “accepted” council meetings without calling a meeting? Does one patriarch have papal like authority? It seems all very circular to me since I admit I don’t understand your organizational structure - it seems very ambiguous.

Sorry if I seem ignorant to you - I really am ignorant and only have a low IQ (less than 160) - a defect of my fallen human nature. Can you teach me without being so insulting?
Second, where did you get the idea that a council is necessary to teach “common doctrine”? That common doctrine you speak of is nothing other than Apostolic Tradition. That Tradition is held by the Church, guarded by the Church, and passed on by the Church as it has been from the very beginning. It never changes and needs no conciliar decrees to make it manifest to the faithful. All the Great Councils were called to exclude error and confirm what the Church already believed. If there was never another council called Apostolic Tradition would persevere. Our Lord promised as much (the gates of hell shall not prevail against it).

Yours in Christ
Joe
So the Orthodox have no deeper revelation of the faith to broadcast to all Orthodox since your last ecumenical council meeting centuries ago? There are no threatening heresies within the Church or no need to clarify teachings in a more modern world context? How is it that the “new Rome” manages and deals with the affairs of the true church without calling world wide council meetings? What street address do “True Christians” “take it up [their issues and questions] with the Church” (Matthew 18:17 ) and how do fellow Christians know what their decision is?

Simple questions that a citizen of new Rome should be able to answer. 😉

James
 
So the Orthodox have no deeper revelation of the faith to broadcast to all Orthodox since your last ecumenical council meeting centuries ago?
There were seven great Ecumenical Councils.
Simple questions that a citizen of new Rome should be able to answer.
If you do not want to be spoken to in a condescending manner, then I suggest you show the same courtesy. 👍
 
Mark 10:42-43
But Jesus calling them, saith to them: You know that they who seem to rule over the Gentiles, lord it over them: and their princes have power over them. But it is not so among you: but whosoever will be greater, shall be your minister.
This verse is captured reliably in the title “Servant of the Servants of God” first used by Pope St. Gregory I (the Great) c. 540AD–604AD after the Patriarch of Constantinople tried to self-assume the title “Ecumenical Patriarch”.

Catholics do not challenge that the Patriarch of Constantinople was ranked as primus inter pares (first among [HIS] equals) in the Eastern Orthodox communion. But the title pertains to his own communion - not to the universal Catholic Church so identified in the Creed. The Catholic Church serves all God’s people not just a particular world region.

James
 
There were seven great Ecumenical Councils.
If you do not want to be spoken to in a condescending manner, then I suggest you show the same courtesy. 👍
:rolleyes:
Is there a new Orthodox teaching that I need to be made aware of that is “do onto others as you imagine they do onto you”? 😉

And please note that there is a difference between imagined condescension and actual direct ad hominems and personally directed denigrating comments. The latter are against forum rules and normal Christian decorum. The prior can be settled by asking a question to clarify what might be imagined or taken through indirection.

If there is such a new Orthodox tradition then it is misapplied here since I have not made a single ad hominum against single poster in here. If my understanding is wrong or even taken as condescension in expressing it - then all I ask is that somone objectively state the historical fact or correction so we all learn and go forward.

👍

James
 
Is there a new Orthodox teaching that I need to be made aware of that is “do onto others as you imagine they do onto you”?
No. There is not a new teaching. It is an old teaching and it goes something like this.

“Your condescending sarcasm does not win you any arguments”.

You are now on my ignore list. Good day! :tiphat:
 
Why do you constantly see fit to employ ad hominem attacks rather than answer questions and state facts and teach those who are asking for clarification? I don’t really feel like you are being sincere in signing “yours in Christ” after suffering the vitriol.
Good grief man how in the world could anyone see what I said as vitriolic? You said:
I don’t admittedly have much insight about Russia Orthodoxy and how authentic they remained to the faith after being dominated by atheist Russia for so long. How active have they been inside Russia and how successful in keeping the state out of the Church and keeping it “Orthodox” over the last 50 or so years? The Greek Orthodox I have reverence for but the Russian Orthodox - I just don’t know much about them from any personal experience?
I simply repeated what you yourself said. You’ve got to relax and stop reading insults into everything or you won’t last long on any forum.
I am curious - if you all can’t even organize a council meeting for 1100 or so years
JVD I’m simply trying to help you. There have been numerous councils (too numerous to mention here) in the Orthodox Church. All of us know that. You shouldn’t make statements like this if you don’t know the facts.
There’s no need to get hostile and talk past me. When was your last “Accepted” Ecumenical council meeting?
Here is a link.
How do Orthodox codify what they even consider “accepted” council meetings without calling a meeting?
When it is received by the Church. Often times buy not always it is confirmed by a later council.
Does one patriarch have papal like authority?
No and never has been.
It seems all very circular to me since I admit I don’t understand your organizational structure - it seems very ambiguous.
It can be. Of course the exact number of infallible papal statements is somewhat ambiguous as well. The Holy Spirit will always guide the Church.
Sorry if I seem ignorant to you - I really am ignorant and only have a low IQ (less than 160) - a defect of my fallen human nature. Can you teach me without being so insulting?
I’m not being insulting. Being ignorant of a subject is not a defect. I am mostly ignorant of lots of things. I was even more ignorant of Catholic teaching when I started than I am now and I’ve learned a lot here (usually after making incorrect statements about Catholic practice or teaching).
So the Orthodox have no deeper revelation of the faith to broadcast to all Orthodox since your last ecumenical council meeting centuries ago?
I don’t understand what you mean by “deeper revelation.”
There are no threatening heresies within the Church or no need to clarify teachings in a more modern world context?
There have been issues and there have at times been councils called to deal with them (see link above).
How is it that the “new Rome” manages and deals with the affairs of the true church without calling world wide council meetings?
It’s not the responsibility of “New Rome” to manage the affairs of anyone except those in his own Patriarchate.
What street address do “True Christians” “take it up [their issues and questions] with the Church” (Matthew 18:17 ) and how do fellow Christians know what their decision is?
I would write my bishop.

*The Most Blessed Jonah
Archbishop of Washington
Metropolitan of All America and Canada

New York Residence:
PO Box 675, Syosset, NY 11791-0675

Washington, D.C. Residence:
3500 Massachusetts Ave, NW, Washington, D.C. 20007
*

You of course would write yours.
Simple questions that a citizen of new Rome should be able to answer. 😉

James
I’m a citizen of the United States my friend. 😉

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
JVD I’m simply trying to help you. There have been numerous councils (too numerous to mention here) in the Orthodox Church. All of us know that. You shouldn’t make statements like this if you don’t know the facts.
Perhaps we are talking about different kinds of councils? I visited your link and see that there have not been any “recognized” ecumenical councils since the 9th Ecumenical Council of 1341-1351 at Constantinople. I thought Orthodox only recognized the first 7 councils.

This was the source of my prior “ignorance” since I used the proximate date of the 7th ecumenical council in my original statement. I see too that Orthodox have since then had a number more “local council” meetings and “Pan-Orthodox” meetings.

I was shocked to see that at the Synod of Jerusalem Pan-Orthodox Council, 1583 AD was
Convened regarding various Roman Catholic beliefs and demonized Catholics . WOW! AMAZING! Do you all really believe this???

*The 1583 Synod of Jerusalem condemned the following:
  1. those who do not believe the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone in essence, and from Father and Son in time;
  2. **those who believe the Lord Jesus Christ used unleavened bread at the Last Supper;**3. those who believe in Purgatory;
  3. those who believe the pope, rather than the Lord Jesus Christ is head of the Church;
  4. those who use the Gregorian calendar and its new Paschalion.*
Then the Orthodox essentially excommunicate Catholics in 1755 - just a few years before America is founded.

*Council at Constantinople local Council, 1755 AD
Convened regarding Baptism. Decreed that all Westerners – Latin or Protestant – had invalid sacraments and were only to be admitted into the Orthodox Church through Baptism. *

I am astonished to learn how triumphant and absolutist Orthodox are and never realized that you thought you had the power to invalidate Jesus’ sacraments since as head of the Church He gave them to all in the apostolic succession. WOW! I never knew this about Orthodox…

Again - do Orthodox REALLY believe that Catholics AND Protestants are not Christian? I could almost understand that attitude about Protestants since they have no priesthood but Catholics???
I don’t understand what you mean by “deeper revelation.”
Concepts such as Council Infallibility and superiority, the trinity, “baptisms being invalid unless an Orthodox baptises them” etc.
I would write my bishop.
So the rule of faith is that “when in new Rome do what most of the new Romans are doing” and when outside of new Rome do whatever one imagines that the other Patriarch expects?
It’s not the responsibility of “New Rome” to manage the affairs of anyone except those in his own Patriarchate.
Who defines the boundaries of a Patrichate and resolves issues with encroaching Patrichates? Who appoints new Patrichates if the Orthodox start doing what Christ commanded and spreading the faith to all the nations as new missions are opened?

Pax,
James
 
Perhaps we are talking about different kinds of councils? I visited your link and see that there have not been any “recognized” ecumenical councils since the 9th Ecumenical Council of 1341-1351 at Constantinople. I thought Orthodox only recognized the first 7 councils.
What exactly do you mean by “recognized”?
This was the source of my prior “ignorance” since I used the proximate date of the 7th ecumenical council in my original statement. I see too that Orthodox have since then had a number more “local council” meetings and “Pan-Orthodox” meetings.
Well now you know.
I was shocked to see that at the Synod of Jerusalem Pan-Orthodox Council, 1583 AD was
Convened regarding various Roman Catholic beliefs and demonized Catholics . WOW! AMAZING! Do you all really believe this???

The 1583 Synod of Jerusalem condemned the following:
  1. those who do not believe the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone in essence, and from Father and Son in time;
  2. **those who believe the Lord Jesus Christ used unleavened bread at the Last Supper;**3. those who believe in Purgatory;
  3. those who believe the pope, rather than the Lord Jesus Christ is head of the Church;
  4. those who use the Gregorian calendar and its new Paschalion.
What’s so shocking about us not accepting Roman Catholic teachings? If we believed all those things we would be Roman Catholic, not Orthodox.
I am astonished to learn how triumphant
Read any of the documents from Vatican I and then talk to me about triumphalism. 😉
and absolutist Orthodox are
And yes, we are firmly absolutist in holding firm to the Apostolic Faith.
and never realized that you thought you had the power to invalidate Jesus’ sacraments since as head of the Church He gave them to all in the apostolic succession. WOW! I never knew this about Orthodox…
As far as the Orthodox Church is concerned Roman Catholic bishops lost their Apostolic Succession when they ceased holding the Apostolic Faith. How can you claim to be successors to the Apostles when you don’t teach what the Apostles taught?
Again - do Orthodox REALLY believe that Catholics AND Protestants are not Christian?
Come on, now you’re just making stuff up.
So the rule of faith is that “when in new Rome do what most of the new Romans are doing” and when outside of new Rome do whatever one imagines that the other Patriarch expects?
I would suggest you obey your bishop. As to the rule of faith that is the same no matter who’s omophorion you are under.
Who defines the boundaries of a Patrichate and resolves issues with encroaching Patrichates?
They are defined by political boundaries just as they were in the ancient Church. Disputes between patriarchs are heard by the Ecumenical Patriarch. The right to hear appeals was granted to the Patriarch of Constantinople by the Fourth Ecumenical Council, which Rome also accepted.

Canon 9

If any Clergyman has a dispute with another, let him not leave his own Bishop and resort to secular courts, but let him first submit his case to his own Bishop, or let it be tried by referees chosen by both parties and approved by the Bishop. Let anyone who acts contrary hereto be liable to Canonical penalties. If, on the other hand, a Clergyman has a dispute with his own Bishop, or with some other Bishop, let it be tried by the Synod of the province. But if any Bishop or Clergyman has a dispute with the Metropolitan of the same province, let him apply either to the Exarch of the diocese or to the throne of the imperial capital Constantinople, and let it be tried before him.
Who appoints new Patrichates if the Orthodox start doing what Christ commanded and spreading the faith to all the nations as new missions are opened?
First of all your not so subtle and once again factually inaccurate suggestion that we haven’t been evangelizing hasn’t gone unnoticed. Yet again if you are ignorant of a subject you make yourself look foolish by making inaccurate statements about it.

And now to your question. Once a local Church is granted autocephaly a primate is elected by the Holy Synod, not appointed.

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
What exactly do you mean by “recognized”?
I noticed that in some literature the Orthodox claim that they only recognize 7 of the ecumenical councils as legitimate. Your list showed 7.
What’s so shocking about us not accepting Roman Catholic teachings? If we believed all those things we would be Roman Catholic, not Orthodox.
Because we have almost identical beliefs - certainly 100% in the core teachings.

You would consider that because Catholics believe in using unleavened bread for the Eucharist that invalidates the belief in real presence??? Wow - I thought you all were less legal and more spiritual with respect to obeying the commandment to break bread in memory of Christ. The suggestion in point #4 that Catholic believe that the pope is over the church in place of Christ is very egregious when the same logic puts "a council’ over the church in so proclaiming. It sure seems very irrational and hypocritical and polemical to me.

And why is it wrong to use the Gregorian calendar???
As far as the Orthodox Church is concerned Roman Catholic bishops lost their Apostolic Succession when they ceased holding the Apostolic Faith. How can you claim to be successors to the Apostles when you don’t teach what the Apostles taught?
And a moment ago I demonstrated that Orthodox criticized Catholics in saying that only Jesus was head of the church. So how is it that the Orthodox just declared an entire patriarchy (your context) as unchristian outside of it’s own Orthodox communion? Did Rome agree to being excommunicated and declared unchristian? Did Jesus? How can Orthodox claim to be spokesperson for Jesus’ church at the same time they claim that only Jesus is head of His church? Who acted as judge and juror for all Catholics to claim that their priesthood and patriarchy is invalid???!!!
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JVD:
Again - do Orthodox REALLY believe that Catholics AND Protestants are not Christian?
Now you are just making stuff up.
No I am not. A moment ago I pointed out that Orthodox rejected Catholic and Protestant baptisms. Since one can not legitimately call themselves a Christian unless they are baptised then I am not making this up. Why are you in denial over your own church’s ridiculous teachings? That’s why I asked if you really believe the Orthodox teachings about Catholics. It seems to me that you are not in agreement with your Orthodox forefather’s teachings about Catholics?
They are defined by political boundaries just as they were in the ancient Church. Disputes between patriarchs are heard by the Ecumenical Patriarch. The right to hear appeals was granted to the Patriarch of Constantinople by the Fourth Ecumenical Council, which Rome also accepted.
The first time somone tried to appoint themselves “Ecumenical Patriarch” the Pope told them there is no such thing. Reference my prior post. There is no concept of an Ecumenical Patriarch in the bible. The single authority over the rest of the bishops has always been the Chair of Peter – which is the papal lineage.
First of all your not so subtle and once again factually inaccurate suggestion that we haven’t been evangelizing hasn’t gone unnoticed. Yet again if you are ignorant of a subject you make yourself look foolish by making inaccurate statements about it.
Well, I would be open to hearing the Orthodox evangelical statistics. How are you all doing in South America, Africa, Asia etc.?
And now to your question. Once a local Church is granted autocephaly a primate is elected by the Holy Synod, not appointed.
Who grants the autocephaly? Is this an automatic thing based on numbers of faithful converts or does some missionary priest have to request permission to break away his parish. Who commissions the new mission church and funds him? Is this a pan-Orthodox undertaking or the undertaking of a particular metropolitan or bishop etc. or just some priest or monastic religious who asks permission to be a missionary and sets out on his own?

How does “the new Rome” expand its empire?

James
 
Can you cite the canon that states that?

If fact the 28th Canon says something very different.

Following in all things the decisions of the holy Fathers, and acknowledging the canon, which has been just read, of the One Hundred and Fifty Bishops beloved-of-God (who assembled in the imperial city of Constantinople, which is New Rome, in the time of the Emperor Theodosius of happy memory), we also do enact and decree the same things concerning the privileges of the most holy Church of Constantinople, which is New Rome. For the Fathers rightly granted privileges to the throne of old Rome, because it was the royal city. And the One Hundred and Fifty most religious Bishops, actuated by the same consideration, gave equal privileges (ἴσα πρεσβεῖα) to the most holy throne of New Rome, justly judging that the city which is honoured with the Sovereignty and the Senate, and enjoys equal privileges with the old imperial Rome, should in ecclesiastical matters also be magnified as she is, and rank next after her

Nothing about “Petrine succession” here my friend. 😉

Yours in Christ
Joe
Having said that, Canon 28 was never ratified.
 
Re: the Russian Orthodox version

Some Russians do call Moscow “Third Rome”. It seems that there’s a good number of (Russian) people who take it very seriously, and regard whoever’s in charge of Russia as more or less the current Roman emperor. Very creepy overtones, I must say.
 
Re: the Russian Orthodox version

Some Russians do call Moscow “Third Rome”. It seems that there’s a good number of (Russian) people who take it very seriously, and regard whoever’s in charge of Russia as more or less the current Roman emperor. Very creepy overtones, I must say.
Given the history I don’t think I could ever get used to saying “Comrades in Christ” if they ever got in control. 😉

What I want to know though is why everyone outside of Rome clearly likes the pedigree of the word “Rome” in their titles but at the same time these same don’t want to acknowledge that “Rome” is still very much alive and well. It reminds me of proud sons who are more than pleased to subscribe their father’s virtue onto themselves by taking their father’s surname while conspicuously signing the suffix “Junior” on anything they pen then riding on daddy’s coat-tails while pretending that junior is more senior than dad. 😛

James
 
Maybe somebody could explain the concept of “autocephalous” patriarchates, as long as we are talking about the Russians.

The Pentarchy was established by ecumenical councils. Autocephalous churches declare themselves to be patriarchates. Doesn’t figure.
 
Having said that, Canon 28 was never ratified.
In fact canon 28 was fully operative in the church, without the specific ratification of the bishop of Rome.

In other words, the bishop of Rome’s objections were fruitless and meaningless.

Later, Rome acknowledged the reality.
 
Maybe somebody could explain the concept of “autocephalous” patriarchates, as long as we are talking about the Russians.

The Pentarchy was established by ecumenical councils. Autocephalous churches declare themselves to be patriarchates. Doesn’t figure.
The first autocephalous church was the church of Cyprus. This was granted by Council.

The mother church would be the one to grant autocephaly to it’s own extended missions. It is addressed as a practical matter. Thus, the OCA (North America) is autocephalic, because it’s mother church (Russian) granted this, It is in the Russian tradition and in communion with but not under the Patriarch of Moscow.

The Orthodox church of Japan (much smaller and younger), on the other hand, is autonomous under the Patriarch of Moscow.

When these newer smaller churches become self governing, some like to regard their own leading Metropolitan (Archbishop) as a Patriarch, this is usually because the synod has several Archbishops already. Smaller countries like Cyprus and the Czech Republic simply don’t have such a large synod.

We have seen this process reflected in church history. The Maronite church got it’s start in this way, gathering as a separate synod, declaring autocephaly and naming a Patriarch of it’s own. This was a renegade action (not approved by the See of Antioch), driven by parochial concerns.

The Church of the East as well (Seleucia-Ctesiphon). This action was probably more than anything because they were across the Roman border in Sassanid territory. (Later they were accused of Nestorianism, because some adherents to Nestorius fled across the border to them, but that accusation is far from certain.)

Some Eastern Catholics seem to think, or act like, their Sui Iuris churches are autocephalic (which is why some will say things like “we are in communion with Rome, not under Rome”) but in fact those churches are autonomous, not autocephalic. They effectively declared their autocephaly in the process of breaking with their parent churches (asserting their own right to do so), but then lost it again subsequent to submitting to the bishops of Rome.
 
In fact canon 28 was fully operative in the church, without the specific ratification of the bishop of Rome.

In other words, the bishop of Rome’s objections were fruitless and meaningless.

Later, Rome acknowledged the reality.
Where did Rome acknowledge this?

I know that Canon 28 was revalidated by Trullo…but that wasn’t even attended by the bishops of the west and so could not be considered “ecumenical.”

(In practical matters in regards to the dignity of the Ecumenical Patriarch, Canon 3 of Constantinople I said all that needed to be said)
 
Re: the Russian Orthodox version

Some Russians do call Moscow “Third Rome”. It seems that there’s a good number of (Russian) people who take it very seriously, and regard whoever’s in charge of Russia as more or less the current Roman emperor. Very creepy overtones, I must say.
There are a lot of creepy things we hear of in the world religious community these days, but this is not one of them.

If you find this problematic consider that Charlemagne’s Holy Roman empire also claimed to be the Roman empires successor.

Some Russian king married a Byzantine princess. The City-state of the east Roman empire (it was a rump state by then) afterward collapsed and the Russians thought of themselves as heirs to the tradition.

So take your pick: Russians or Germans. Neither makes all that much sense from our vantage point in 2010AD.

But the question of the Moscow Patriarchate inheriting the mantle of the Ecumenical Patriarchate is one that is taken more seriously because it is the de facto leader of most Orthodox, either practically or symbolically. No Orthodox would argue that this gives him powers over other Orthodox churches, but he can be an effective leading figure.
 
Where did Rome acknowledge this?

I know that Canon 28 was revalidated by Trullo…but that wasn’t even attended by the bishops of the west and so could not be considered “ecumenical.”

(In practical matters in regards to the dignity of the Ecumenical Patriarch, Canon 3 of Constantinople I said all that needed to be said)
Canon 5 of the Fourth Lateran Council recognized Constantinople as next after Rome. They did not have to do this, they wanted to. It represents a reversal in the church’s position, and brings it in line with the longstanding reality.

As far as I am aware, Canon 5 would be operative for your church today, unless it has been abrogated since then.
 
The first autocephalous church was the church of Cyprus. This was granted by Council.

The mother church would be the one to grant autocephaly to it’s own extended missions. It is addressed as a practical matter. Thus, the OCA (North America) is autocephalic, because it’s mother church (Russian) granted this, It is in the Russian tradition and in communion with but not under the Patriarch of Moscow.

The Orthodox church of Japan (much smaller and younger), on the other hand, is autonomous under the Patriarch of Moscow.

When these newer smaller churches become self governing, some like to regard their own leading Metropolitan (Archbishop) as a Patriarch, this is usually because the synod has several Archbishops already. Smaller countries like Cyprus and the Czech Republic simply don’t have such a large synod.

We have seen this process reflected in church history. The Maronite church got it’s start in this way, gathering as a separate synod, declaring autocephaly and naming a Patriarch of it’s own. This was a renegade action (not approved by the See of Antioch), driven by parochial concerns.

The Church of the East as well (Seleucia-Ctesiphon). This action was probably more than anything because they were across the Roman border in Sassanid territory. (Later they were accused of Nestorianism, because some adherents to Nestorius fled across the border to them, but that accusation is far from certain.)

Some Eastern Catholics seem to think, or act like, their Sui Iuris churches are autocephalic (which is why some will say things like “we are in communion with Rome, not under Rome”) but in fact those churches are autonomous, not autocephalic. They effectively declared their autocephaly in the process of breaking with their parent churches (asserting their own right to do so), but then lost it again subsequent to submitting to the bishops of Rome.
Thanks for the info.

I can fully understand the rights granted Cyprus regarding ordaining their own bishops by the Council of Ephesus. But I didn’t see that council elevating that province to the same dignity as Antioch, nor do I see that this see was ever elevated to the status of a patriarch in any ecumenical council thereafter.

The exact words were:
Our fellow Bishop Reginus, most beloved by God, and with him the most God-beloved Bishops of the province of the Cypriotes Zeno and Evagrius, has announced an innovation, a thing which is contrary to the ecclesiastical laws and the Canons of the Holy Apostles, and one which touches the freedom of all. Hence, since common ailments require more drastic treatment, on the ground that they do greater damage, and especially in view of the fact that the Bishop of Antioch, far from following the ancient custom, has been performing the ordinations in Cyprus, according to information given in libelli and by oral statements made by most pious gentlemen who have approached the Holy Council; therefore those who preside over the churches in Cyprus shall retain their privilege unaffected and inviolate, according to the Canons of the Holy Fathers and ancient custom, whereby they shall themselves perform the ordinations of the most reverent Bishops.

The same rule shall hold good also with regard to the other diocese and churches everywhere, so that none of the Bishops most beloved by God shall take hold of any other province that was not formerly and from the beginning in his jurisdiction, or was not, that is to say, held by his predecessors. But if anyone has taken possession of any and has forcibly subjected it to his authority, he shall regive it back to its rightful possessor, in order that the Canons of the Fathers be not transgressed, nor the secular fastus be introduced, under the pretext of divine services; lest imperceptibly and little by little we lose the freedom which our Lord Jesus Christ, the Liberator of all men, has given us as a free gift by His own blood. It has therefore seemed best to the holy and Ecumenical Council that the rights of every province, formerly and from the beginning belonging to it, be preserved clear and inviolable, in accordance with the custom which prevailed of yore; each Metropolitan having permission to take copies of the proceedings for his own security. If, on the other hand, anyone introduce any form conflicting with the decrees which have now been sanctioned, it has seemed best to the entire holy and Ecumenical Council that it be invalid and of no effect.
That does not say anything about granting complete independence. It was something done because the Patriarch of Antioch was forcing Cypriot bishops to come to Antioch to be ordained rather than traveling to Cyprus to do the ordinations as he should have done.

The thing is that a precedent was set…but the precedent was that an ecumenical council could grant this.

But I don’t pretend to be much of an expert on the subject, though.
 
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