The New Theology of the Body

[Qoeleth]

We are not simply souls being housed in bodies. A human being is single thing- consisting of a body and a soul. The body is entirely good, since it is created by God. In fact, the body has as much claim to be the real ‘I’ as the soul. A lot of ‘saints’ from the Dark Ages claim that the body is a burden and prison to the soul- but that is Platonism, not Christianity.

Now God has equipped our bodies with senses, which tell us what is good and bad. Our sense tell us that sleep, food, sex, etc. are good, but pain, injuries and sickness are bad. God has given us senses to guide us to what is right.

Our minds sometimes make mistakes (we can make erroneous judgments), but our bodies never (or hardly ever) do. If something feels painful, it is almost certainly bad for us (burning heat, sharp implements, acids), but if something feels good (pleasant food, soft clothing, wine), it is generally good for us (or, at pleast pleasurable). God made our bodies with the senses. He gave us the sense to guide us. He gave us the pleasurable things of the world as gifts of his generous Creation.

The old ‘saints’ said the senses were windows through which the Devil attacks the soul- but that is more Gnostic the Christian.

Hence, it follows from that we should follow our senses of whatever is pleasurable, and show honor to God by enjoying to the fullest all the pleasures of the body He has given us. Our ‘thinking’ morality can go wrong (as history shows), so let’s just follow our appetites- since God made us as bodies, and implanted good desires in us, and filled the earth and this mortal life with good things.

“Come, let us enjoy the good things there are, use this creation with the zest of youth; take our fill of the dearest wines and perfumes, let no one flower of springtime pass by. Let none of us forgo our place in the orgy, let us leave signs of revelry everywhere, this is our portion, the lot assigned us.” Wisdom 2:6-9

And God become incarnate- He took on flesh in Jesus Christ, who came eating, drinking, consorting with women, to show just how wonderful life in the body can be. Many saints, like Bonaventure, said Christ’s life on earth was continual poverty and pain- but the modernist approach is to imagine Christ as laughing, jolly, with a real sense of humour, eating and drinking, a prankster. This is what being human is all about.

This is the new Catholic theology! It is not about self-abnegation, or the spirit conquering the flesh- it is all about being fully human, embracing the desires of the flesh and the senses and all created things as gifts from God in the pleasure-garden of this earthly life!

Mortal life is not a bitter cup of suffering which must be drunk, or a cobwed, a prison, or a lie, or a bitter exile in the Devil’s country (as all those old ‘saints’ said), but it is a wonderful thing!

All those old ‘saints’ were just a bunch of heretics and ‘Gnostics’.

 

[Elostirion]

You said that it is the soul which gives us the senses. Does that mean common animals also have souls, they clearly sense and know, for example, that to eat is good.

 

[GEddie]

You said that it is the soul which gives us the senses. Does that mean common animals also have souls, they clearly sense and know, for example, that to eat is good.

“Animals”, by definition, have a “soul”.

The word for soul in Latin is anima.

An animal is literally a being with a soul. Soul generates the biological life.

But there are souls , and there are souls. While animals have a soul, it is not the human soul, which not only generates physical life (Hebrew nephesh), but also the cognitive mind (Hebrew Neshamah).

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Contarini]

We are not simply souls being housed in bodies. A human being is single thing- consisting of a body and a soul. The body is entirely good, since it is created by God. In fact, the body has as much claim to be the real ‘I’ as the soul. A lot of ‘saints’ from the Dark Ages claim that the body is a burden and prison to the soul- but that is Platonism, not Christianity.

Now God has equipped our bodies with senses, which tell us what is good and bad. Our sense tell us that sleep, food, sex, etc. are good, but pain, injuries and sickness are bad. God has given us senses to guide us to what is right.

Our minds sometimes make mistakes (we can make erroneous judgments), but our bodies never (or hardly ever) do. If something feels painful, it is almost certainly bad for us (burning heat, sharp implements, acids), but if something feels good (pleasant food, soft clothing, wine), it is generally good for us (or, at pleast pleasurable). God made our bodies with the senses. He gave us the sense to guide us. He gave us the pleasurable things of the world as gifts of his generous Creation.

The old ‘saints’ said the senses were windows through which the Devil attacks the soul- but that is more Gnostic the Christian.

Hence, it follows from that we should follow our senses of whatever is pleasurable, and show honor to God by enjoying to the fullest all the pleasures of the body He has given us. Our ‘thinking’ morality can go wrong (as history shows), so let’s just follow our appetites- since God made us as bodies, and implanted good desires in us, and filled the earth and this mortal life with good things.

“Come, let us enjoy the good things there are, use this creation with the zest of youth; take our fill of the dearest wines and perfumes, let no one flower of springtime pass by. Let none of us forgo our place in the orgy, let us leave signs of revelry everywhere, this is our portion, the lot assigned us.” Wisdom 2:6-9

And God become incarnate- He took on flesh in Jesus Christ, who came eating, drinking, consorting with women, to show just how wonderful life in the body can be. Many saints, like Bonaventure, said Christ’s life on earth was continual poverty and pain- but the modernist approach is to imagine Christ as laughing, jolly, with a real sense of humour, eating and drinking, a prankster. This is what being human is all about.

This is the new Catholic theology! It is not about self-abnegation, or the spirit conquering the flesh- it is all about being fully human, embracing the desires of the flesh and the senses and all created things as gifts from God in the pleasure-garden of this earthly life!

Mortal life is not a bitter cup of suffering which must be drunk, or a cobwed, a prison, or a lie, or a bitter exile in the Devil’s country (as all those old ‘saints’ said), but it is a wonderful thing!

All those old ‘saints’ were just a bunch of heretics and ‘Gnostics’.

Too strong–to use Luther’s metaphor, you have gotten on the horse on one side only to fall off on the other.

Asceticism is an essential part of Christianity. That doesn’t mean that the body is bad or that pleasure is bad, but that our disordered passions make it impossible for us to just let ourselves go and wallow in pleasure. We will inevitably distort God’s good gifts if we do that. Part of appreciating the goodness of the body is disciplining the body. Part of appreciating food is using it moderately and celebrating the fasts with the same gusto we bring to the feasts. Part of appreciating sex is valuing celibacy and following the Church’s teachings on sexuality within marriage. And so on.

G. K. Chesterton is a very helpful guide on these matters, I find.

Edwin

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

Pleasure is not synonymous with goodness, nor pain with evil. Jesus did not have sexual relations with women.

 

[Qoeleth]

Pleasure is not synonymous with goodness, nor pain with evil. Jesus did not have sexual relations with women.

But our bodies are gifts from God and designed as good by God, and they tell us that pleasure is good. God created things which cause pleasure, and gave us the instinct to desire them.

Why would God implant into our bodies desires which were not good?

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

Consider the following situation. Our body becomes sick and a doctor gives us medicine. When we taste the medicine, our tongue rejects the taste of it. Our body therefore perceives it as un-pleasurable. Why do we take it?

 

[Qoeleth]

Asceticism is an essential part of Christianity. That doesn’t mean that the body is bad or that pleasure is bad, but that our disordered passions make it impossible for us to just let ourselves go and wallow in pleasure. We will inevitably distort God’s good gifts if we do that. Part of appreciating the goodness of the body is disciplining the body.

Surely the idea of disciplining the body comes from the Platonist or Stoic idea that the mind (or soul) is the higher part and the body the lower part- that the body is the servant of the soul.

This reflects the old Platonic idea that the soul is directed ‘upward’, and the body tends ‘downward’, and that they are locked in struggle. The old saints believed that the body had become corrupt in its desires, because of original sin, and that therefore the soul had to assert its rule, so that the person freed from earthly corruption. But this is pure Gnosticism/Platonism. It was Plato, who believed that the soul that followed its earthly desires become further enmeshed in the filth of matter and desire, whereas the soul who overcame fleshly desires would be freed from the body and death, and ascent to the eternal Heavens.

It is true the Jesus said :“It is the spirit that gives the life, the flesh has nothing to offer.” He also said, “You must not love this world nor anything in the world.” But those Scriptures were written by Greeks, who came from a Platonic background. We need to get back to pre-orthodox Hebrew Christianity, which was all about embracing the flesh and the world, since God “saw that they were good”.

Since the new theologians all tell us that the body, pleasure, sexuality and matter are all good, why not follow the good desires which God has placed in our good bodies?

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

How about simply relying on common sense? Instead labeling ideas as Platonist or Gnostic, answer the simple question of why a person takes medicine from a doctor if the medicine tastes bad, and therefore is bad, according to your infallible body. If your theory can’t answer such a simple question, it isn’t even worth acknowledging.

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

The body experiences heroin as a pleasurable substance. Should we therefore keep on taking heroin until our body experiences it as painful?

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

If your sexual partner has AIDS, does your body experience the sex with them any differently than it would if they didn’t have AIDS or does it not experience the exact same sensation? So, then, by your theory, it is just as good to have sex with a person who has AIDS than one who hasn’t.

 

[Qoeleth]

Consider the following situation. Our body becomes sick and a doctor gives us medicine. When we taste the medicine, our tongue rejects the taste of it. Our body therefore perceives it as un-pleasurable. Why do we take it?

But are we actually sick now? God created us, bodies animated by a soul- His workmanship is not faulty- why would He programme us to want things that are not good for us? Even St. Paul (who was notoriously influenced by Greek thought) said “Eat and drink, for tomorrow we may die!”

The whole idea of original sin is from St. Augustine, who was notoriously neo-Platonist. He had also been a Manichean, a kind of Gnostic. It is not in the Hebrew Scriptures at all, which are all about “Original Grace”, to use a term popular with the New Theologians.

God created everything and saw it was all good.

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

If we are defined by our bodies, then what about animals that exceed our bodies. The eagle has a better sense of sight, dogs have a better sense of hearing, so then by your reasoning, doesn’t that make them more intelligent than human beings? If everything depends upon sense perception, then how do you account for animals which have greater sense perception than human beings? Are they more intelligent as well?

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

But are we sick now? God created us, bodies animated by a soul- His workmanship is not faulty- why would He programme us to want things that are not good for us? Even St. Paul (who was notoriously infect by Greek thought) said “Eat and drink, for tomorrow we may die!”

The whole idea of original sin is from St. Augustine, who was notoriously neo-Platonist. He had also been a Manichean, a kind of Gnostic. It is not in the Hebrew Scriptures at all, which are all about “Original Grace”, to use a term popular with the New Theologians.

You avoided the question. If you become sick with an infection and the doctor gives you penicillin will you reject it because your tongue tells you that it is bad?

 

[Qoeleth]

You avoided the question. If you become sick with an infection and the doctor gives you penicillin will you reject it because your tongue tells you that it is bad?

But God created the germs causing the infection. They are simply doing what God created them to do. God created them good.

God also created the tongue, with its senses.

Since there is no such thing as original sin (it is a myth devised by neo-Platonists), it follows also that disease and suffering is a myth. We call a colony of germs a ‘disease’, but that is judging and condemning part of the material world, which is all good.

If we try to free ourselves from the desires (sex, food, drinks) and sensations (disease) of the body, we fall into the trap of the old Dark Age neo-Platonists, of treating the body like a prison of the soul. The new theology is all about embracing our ‘incarnatedness’.

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

You still haven’t answered the question. If your body perceives itself as being sick, and a doctor gives you medicine in order to restore your health, will you refuse the medicine if your tongue tells you it is bad?

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

I am guessing OP is going to keep on avoiding this question and wait for people to take his bait.

 

[tstrong728]

If your sexual partner has AIDS, does your body experience the sex with them any differently than it would if they didn’t have AIDS or does it not experience the exact same sensation? So, then, by your theory, it is just as good to have sex with a person who has AIDS than one who hasn’t.

AIDS is an aphrodisiac for most Homosexuals so they actually experience a heightened state of arousal. Arousal has a significant mental component, so as weird as it sounds hurting people want to hurt more…it’s part of their brokenness.

 

[Qoeleth]

You still haven’t answered the question. If your body perceives itself as being sick, and a doctor gives you medicine in order to restore your health, will you refuse the medicine if your tongue tells you it is bad?

Hmm… No, I suppose one would not refuse such medicine.

 

[GEddie]

Surely the idea of disciplining the body comes from the Platonist or Stoic idea that the mind (or soul) is the higher part and the body the lower part- that the body is the servant of the soul.

This reflects the old Platonic idea that the soul is directed ‘upward’, and the body tends ‘downward’, and that they are locked in struggle. The old saints believed that the body had become corrupt in its desires, because of original sin, and that therefore the soul had to assert its rule, so that the person freed from earthly corruption. But this is pure Gnosticism/Platonism. It was Plato, who believed that the soul that followed its earthly desires become further enmeshed in the filth of matter and desire, whereas the soul who overcame fleshly desires would be freed from the body and death, and ascent to the eternal Heavens.

It is true the Jesus said :“It is the spirit that gives the life, the flesh has nothing to offer.” He also said, “You must not love this world nor anything in the world.” But those Scriptures were written by Greeks, who came from a Platonic background. We need to get back to pre-orthodox Hebrew Christianity, which was all about embracing the flesh and the world, since God “saw that they were good”.

Since the new theologians all tell us that the body, pleasure, sexuality and matter are all good, why not follow the good desires which God has placed in our good bodies?

How about simply relying on common sense? Instead labeling ideas as Platonist or Gnostic, answer the simple question of why a person takes medicine from a doctor if the medicine tastes bad, and therefore is bad, according to your infallible body. If your theory can’t answer such a simple question, it isn’t even worth acknowledging.

I am not him, nor am I a Platonist, Gnostic or a Thomist. I am a nonphilosopher (and happy to be one).

No-one said the body was “infallible”. He was probably overreacting to someone else’s praise of asceticism, which can easily go too far.

The problem with bodily excess often does not lie in the body. Rather, it comes from attributing to a bodily need, cravings that originate in the psyche. Examples being drunkenness (“to feel good”); “comfort eating”, or recreational sex. The body is not the driver for these behaviors; the soul is, which is why they lead or can lead to sin.

The body qua body is innocent; it is the life-holder and expressor for the soul. Bodies do not sin on their own. When one of your limbs thrashes out in sleep, even if it hits someone else, you have not sinned.

CS Lewis said it best:

You are always dragging me down,’ said I to my Body. ‘Dragging you down!’ replied my Body. ‘Well I like that! Who taught me to like tobacco and alcohol? You, of course, with your idiotic adolescent idea of being “grown up”. My palate loathed both at first: but you would have your way. Who put an end to all those angry and revengeful thoughts last night? Me, of course, by insisting on going to sleep. Who does his best to keep you from talking too much and eating too much by giving you dry throats and headaches and indigestion? Eh?’ ‘And what about sex?’ said I. ‘Yes, what about it?’ retorted the Body. 'If you and your wretched imagination would leave me alone I’d give you no trouble. That’s Soul all over; you give me orders and then blame me for carrying them out.

ICXC NIKA