The newest Cathedral

[Unitas]

A gothic cathedral “does it” for some, while the images in this facility may “do it” for others.

So do miniskirts and tube-tops, but that doesn’t mean they’re appropriate for Church.

 

[Jacafamala]

So do miniskirts and tube-tops, but that doesn’t mean they’re appropriate for Church.

Lol, Uni!

It looks to me like someone wanted to do something really different, so they built that church. It’s not about the continuity of Catholic tradition in any way that I can see.

 

[tcraig]

When I look at this cathedral, these words pop into my head: corporate, cold, functional, academic, uninspiring and, dare I say, ugly. To me, it comes off as not really caring about the people who come in there, but totally absorbed by the innovative design.

That’s the feeling I got, also. It’s more about “pushing the envelope” rather than respecting the history and traditions of the Church. I remember a beautiful plan for this cathedral that drew upon the state’s Spanish heritage that was submitted by an architecture student … I’ll try and forget I ever saw it.

I don’t think it’s totally hopeless though. Very ornate gilded candlesticks and brocaded altar cloths can help. Perhaps, over time, more “traditional” touches will make their way in. I used to attend a very modern, Scandinavian style church that had these ornate touches; surprisingly, it was a very beautiful church overall, even though the architecture was depressingly minimalist and modern.

 

[Nickkname]

I hate it when people glorify themselves in Church architecture rather than God. This Cathedral is an example of when man glorifies himself rather than the Lord.

 

[Monica37]

ChrisB,
I know you didn’t say specifically where you are from, but I am from Richmond and this looks like the Cathedral of the Sacred Heart there. My uncle wrote a book on the history of the Cathedral and it has pictures from the very beginning all the way up to the recent renovations. I took my husband there years ago just to look inside (he is not Catholic) and the organist was practicing as we walked in. My husband did exactly what you are supposed to do and immediately looked up. He was very moved by the experience.

 

[Love_the_Lorax]

Agreed…

So do miniskirts and tube-tops, but that doesn’t mean they’re appropriate for Church.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

What people find inspirational and appropriate in church architecture is ultimately a matter of personal preference. Self-glorification may well have been a charge made against those who pioneered the Gothic cathedrals with their flying buttresses and soaring walls, versus the more sedate Romanesque style.

The Cathedral of St. Mary in San Francisco looks like nothing so much as a giant washing-machine agitator on the outside, but I’ve always found its soaring interior to be awesome and inspirational.

 

[CradleCath]

tcraig;4243420]That’s the feeling I got, also. It’s more about “pushing the envelope” rather than respecting the history and traditions of the Church.

I remember a beautiful plan for this cathedral that drew upon the state’s Spanish heritage that was submitted by an architecture student … I’ll try and forget I ever saw it.

I don’t think it’s totally hopeless though. Very ornate gilded candlesticks and brocaded altar cloths can help. Perhaps, over time, more “traditional” touches will make their way in. I used to attend a very modern, Scandinavian style church that had these ornate touches; surprisingly, it was a very beautiful church overall, even though the architecture was depressingly minimalist and modern.

Sorry, I just can’t get past the outside. It’s ostentatious. Maybe people will just walk past & not notice it??

 

[CradleCath]

I hate it when people glorify themselves in Church architecture rather than God. This Cathedral is an example of when man glorifies himself rather than the Lord.

You’re absolutely correct. The pretentiousness of this monstrosity
fairly SCREAMS, “Look at me”. Do you know who headed the diocese of Oakland when they chose Skidmore, Owings and Merrill of San Francisco??

 

[Mattapoisett64]

You’re absolutely correct. The pretentiousness of this monstrosity
fairly SCREAMS, “Look at me”. Do you know who headed the diocese of Oakland when they chose Skidmore, Owings and Merrill of San Francisco??

The ever-growing non-denominational mega-churches tend to look like sports stadiums or malls. The cathedral in Oakland is surrounded by anonymous high-rise buildings which in turn are surrounded by vast expanses of poverty and violence. Maybe in an environment like this, a Catholic church that says “Look at me” isn’t such a bad thing.

 

[Ad_Deum]

I thought “it” was a new museum at the bay area.

The architect is sure proud of it, but it is a waste of money $190 million, the diocese should have given it to the charity or their missions.

Oh, well!

Pax

Frater

 

[Sarabande]

I thought “it” was a new museum at the bay area.

Frater

I think that it is one of the problems. Whether or not I like the design, it’s an interesting and great building for a new museum or a new center for music, sports or something of the sort. But it screams corporate - not mass.

 

[bear06]

Well, I’m finally reporting it. I got to attend the cathedral dedication Mass. It was - interesting.

1. The baptismal pool is the holy water font, apparently. I wasn’t sure at first but there were no other holy water fonts visible and people dipped their fingers in so.

Yeah, I’m not so crazy about pools. Fonts would have been nice. It seem to me that people who think pools are a good idea never think of little kids wanting to swim. The only thing I like about the pool is that there’s a window directly above it.

1. There are definitely kneelers in the sanctuary, so people that had concerns about that can breathe easy.

Yep. There are definitely kneelers. That said, we used them during the Consecration but so idiot decided we had to do the whole “please stand in solidarity with those receiving until everyone has received” schtick and then, of course, everyone just sat down afterward. I had been kneeling for about 5 mintues before I looked up and saw everyone standing. We kept kneeling because there little direction flies in the face of the GIRM. The bishop got burned on that one.

1. Very open and spacious, nothing is cramped or has the look of being jammed in.

Iv’e got to say that this is actually nice. Also, this is the best ventilated church I have ever been in. There are 3-4 vents under ever section of the pews. 1500 people wedged in and it was very airy.

1. The Stations of the Cross come in the form of stone engravings along the walls in the sanctuary… but they aren’t labeled. Why do I like that? Because it practically forces you to at least have an idea of what the twelve stations are about.

I don’t really care too much about the labeling. What I care about is that they’re just plain ugly. They’re made in that chuncky sixties style of art. It’s the same with the very prominent crucifix. I swear the whole cathedral could have been save with some nice classical bronze statues.

1. They’ve got a room where they have three books available for reading: The green book with the Readings for the year (I forget the official name), a bible that’s in English and Hebrew and a third book that’s completely in Hebrew. /QUOTE]. I missed that one.

6. I checked the schedule and Confession is twice DAILY. Pure love based on that alone.

And here are some things I didn’t like:

1. I’m not sold on the style of the confessional. They’ve got two confessions near the front of the church (one on each side) and it’s in this ‘S’ shape hewn out of wood. You sit on one side and the priest sits on the other. No kneelers and the priest can see you very well. Not that it matters but I’m sure a lot of ‘old heads’ might have issues with it.

The confessional is awful. First of all, no doors and I didn’t notice any lights so the only way to tell if someone is in the “confessional” is to walk in on them. The jenga block s-shaped wall is just a waste of money. And, you’re right. You can’t kneel. This was the worst thing about the whole thing. I will never plan on going to confession there.

1. So there’s like this big screen they’ve got constructed high above the altar where I presume at night they turn on the lights and it becomes this massive picture of Jesus. It’s ehhhh a little cheesy IMHO - stained glass would’ve done it better, you know?

While I would have preferred stained glass, I’ve got to say that this picture is awe-inspiring. At night, when it looks like a negative inside, it’s impossible to miss from anywhere in the vicinity. My friend was in the choir and she said when she left practice at night, people totally unrelated to the cathedral were congregated across the street look at it. It’s really impossible to miss. I wish it was a crucifix but the idea wasn’t as horrible as I thought it would be. It’s a good example of God using something less than perfect to bring people to Him.

1. The sanctuary itself kind of has a protestant feel to it… Not quite sure what specifically gives me that feeling but I’ve got the feeling anyway so yeah.

I htink the feeling comes from it’s minimalistic style and it being devoid of anything that looks classically Catholic. Way too much time was spent on over-reaching symbolism. You shouldn’t have to have an explanatory book to see “Catholic”.

Overall, I think I’ll stick with my home parish and only go to the Cathedral for ultra-special occasions.

I’ll probably go sometime with my husband so can see it but I doubt we’ll frequent it. My Church is Gothic Tudor and, as small and non-well ventilated as it it, it’s awesome!

I’ll definitely be stopping by the Gift Shop more than a few times - .

Maybe you explain to me what was up with the tea? Was it made by nuns or something?

OK, now I’ll add some more things. While the tabernacle was ugly, it was right where it should be. There is a very prominent (but ugly) crucifix. There is one little side chapel that has some really beautiful artwork which was totally inconsistent with the rest of the church. The other side chapels weren’t completed so I’d hard to know what will go in there. My big home is that they’ll put kneelers and doors in the confessional. I’m also hoping for some beautiful bronze statuary. It would go a long way to make the cathedral look Catholic. I understand there’s a statue of Mary coming for the altar but I’m afraid it will be the same chucky style.

Oh, bonus - Bishop Allen Vigneron blessed my ring for me. Score!

He’s such a good man. I feel bad for him.

It would be so nice if the folks from the 60s would stay out of designing or decorating churches. The 60s are over and those of us who didn’t do drugs are annoyed by the style.

 

[bear06]

I thought “it” was a new museum at the bay area.

The architect is sure proud of it, but it is a waste of money $190 million, the diocese should have given it to the charity or their missions.

Oh, well!

Pax

Frater

Well, I think we needed a cathedral and they are planning many charitable things there like a clinic. That said, it could have been done far better and cheaper.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I like the fact that they didn’t make it as dark and gloomy as the other newer cathedrals in Cailfornia.

 

[bear06]

You’re absolutely correct. The pretentiousness of this monstrosity
fairly SCREAMS, “Look at me”. Do you know who headed the diocese of Oakland when they chose Skidmore, Owings and Merrill of San Francisco??

Bishop Cummins. I would like to reiterate that it’s not a monstrosity. It just doesn’t look Catholic. These are two different things.

It pretty much looks like what I’ve always said - a swanky hotel. You know, if they put a bunch of plants in it, I could see it looking like a gorgeous atrium in a hotel.

 

[Sarabande]

Well, I think we needed a cathedral and they are planning many charitable things there like a clinic. That said, it could have been done far better and cheaper.

And actually, in a way, because they did spend so much money on this, I would think that it would have been better than what was constructed. But if that is truly was what the people of the diocese wanted and liked for their house of God, I can’t really say anything more.

 

[Thunderbird]

Yeah, I’m not so crazy about pools. Fonts would have been nice. It seem to me that people who think pools are a good idea never think of little kids wanting to swim. The only thing I like about the pool is that there’s a window directly above it.

Would’ve been nice if they had fonts AND the big baptismal pool/font.

Yep. There are definitely kneelers. That said, we used them during the Consecration but so idiot decided we had to do the whole “please stand in solidarity with those receiving until everyone has received” schtick and then, of course, everyone just sat down afterward. I had been kneeling for about 5 mintues before I looked up and saw everyone standing. We kept kneeling because there little direction flies in the face of the GIRM. The bishop got burned on that one.

Yeah, I kneeled after receiving Eucharist (as did everyone else in my row), but we were ultra confused when we finally looked around and noticed that some were standing, others were sitting and some were kneeling. So much for solidarity.

I don’t really care too much about the labeling. What I care about is that they’re just plain ugly. They’re made in that chuncky sixties style of art. It’s the same with the very prominent crucifix. I swear the whole cathedral could have been save with some nice classical bronze statues.

Ooh, we disagree here. I think the Stations are made pretty well. They’re at eye-level so you can see the detail in them, and had a kind of icon feel to them (to me).

I missed that one (the book room).

Update on that. I took another look at the books… there’s the Lectionary, a book that’s written entirely in Hebrew or Arabic (not sure which) and what appears to be the Torah/Tanakh, written in English and Hebrew. Next time you go, check out the room closest to the lectoring podium on the left-hand side.

The confessional is awful. First of all, no doors and I didn’t notice any lights so the only way to tell if someone is in the “confessional” is to walk in on them. The jenga block s-shaped wall is just a waste of money. And, you’re right. You can’t kneel. This was the worst thing about the whole thing. I will never plan on going to confession there.

LOL. Jenga Blocks, that’s the first thing I thought when I saw it. I wasn’t sure if I should confess or stack another block.

While I would have preferred stained glass, I’ve got to say that this picture is awe-inspiring. At night, when it looks like a negative inside, it’s impossible to miss from anywhere in the vicinity. My friend was in the choir and she said when she left practice at night, people totally unrelated to the cathedral were congregated across the street look at it. It’s really impossible to miss. I wish it was a crucifix but the idea wasn’t as horrible as I thought it would be. It’s a good example of God using something less than perfect to bring people to Him.

Yeah, I haven’t seen the cathedral at night… maybe I should before I make judgments about it.

Maybe you explain to me what was up with the tea? Was it made by nuns or something?

Yeah, I think the food and stuff they offer are made by nuns or monks. I know for a fact that the honey sold in the gift shop comes from the Redwoods Monastery.

OK, now I’ll add some more things. While the tabernacle was ugly, it was right where it should be.

Where IS the tabernacle? Is it that stone thing behind the altar where the jengawall is?

There is a very prominent (but ugly) crucifix.

You mean the one in one of the chapels on the right side? You’re right, that thing is hideous. The things people do for “artistic expression.”

There is one little side chapel that has some really beautiful artwork which was totally inconsistent with the rest of the church. The other side chapels weren’t completed so I’d hard to know what will go in there. My big home is that they’ll put kneelers and doors in the confessional. I’m also hoping for some beautiful bronze statuary. It would go a long way to make the cathedral look Catholic. I understand there’s a statue of Mary coming for the altar but I’m afraid it will be the same chucky style.

The other side is where you’ll find those three books. You’ll also find a chapel over there with a huge Icon of Mary. It’s actually quite pretty. I doubt there will be doors or kneelers in the confessionals, at least that’s what I’ve heard. Didn’t hear about the Mary statue though, that’ll be…interesting.

 

[bear06]

And actually, in a way, because they did spend so much money on this, I would think that it would have been better than what was constructed. But if that is truly was what the people of the diocese wanted and liked for their house of God, I can’t really say anything more.

Last time I checked, our diocese was not a democracy. I seem to have forgotten being consulted. We used to have one liberal bishop who picked his liberal cathedral planning group. Please do not think that everyone in this diocese wanted this. You have no idea how much protest went on over building one at all much less the design. You had those who thought we shouldn’t spend money on a cathedral at all no matter the design and those who protested about the design. This is the legacy of our Bishope Emeritus. He can answer for it later.

 

[bear06]

Would’ve been nice if they had fonts AND the big baptismal pool/font.

 

[Sarabande]

Last time I checked, our diocese was not a democracy. I seem to have forgotten being consulted. We used to have one liberal bishop who picked his liberal cathedral planning group. Please do not think that everyone in this diocese wanted this. You have no idea how much protest went on over building one at all much less the design. You had those who thought we shouldn’t spend money on a cathedral at all no matter the design and those who protested about the design. This is the legacy of our Bishope Emeritus. He can answer for it later.

I’m sorry… … What I said there really wasn’t what I actually believed. Unfortunately, the written word doesn’t always come across as I intended. I guess I was trying to be a little sarcastic (which I don’t usually do and really shouldn’t do in the first place - I don’t like that rolling eyes smiley, so I won’t use it) regarding those who were actually involved in the planning of this structure and I failed miserably at it. lol. I realize that this wasn’t something that the people in the diocese probably had much say over at all.