The Nicene Creed

[future_deacon]

In the CCC (catechism) it says “For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died and was buried.” for the Nicene creed however during mass we say “… he suffered death and was buried.” The two sentences differ quite distinctly, the first one acknowledges suffering as separate to death as oppose to the second where it says he just suffered death. In Catholic teaching we acknowledge that Jesus suffered even before crucifixion and death. My father points out that we will all suffer death. Basically what I’m trying to say is why is the Nicene Creed in the CCC different to the creed we say at mass?

 

[Orogeny]

In the CCC (catechism) it says “For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died and was buried.” for the Nicene creed however during mass we say “… he suffered death and was buried.” The two sentences differ quite distinctly, the first one acknowledges suffering as separate to death as oppose to the second where it says he just suffered death. In Catholic teaching we acknowledge that Jesus suffered even before crucifixion and death. My father points out that we will all suffer death. Basically what I’m trying to say is why is the Nicene Creed in the CCC different to the creed we say at mass?

The CCC is different because the english translation of the Creed at the time that the CCC was written used that language. As I understand it, that was not a literal translation of the Creed, so the Creed was changed in english to reflect a more literal translation. The CCC has not been updated since then.

Peace

Tim

 

[Joe_5859]

Tim is correct. The new translation of the Creed that we presently use at Mass just went into effect a little more than a year ago at the end of 2011. The most recent English edition of the Catechism was published in 1997. When the Catechism came out, that was the same Creed we said at Mass. They simply pulled the translation of the Creed that everyone would be familiar with from Mass. However, now there is that disconnect.

Perhaps they will come out with a third edition that makes modification based on the changes in the Missal. But I wouldn’t count on it happening anytime soon.

 

[FightingFat]

Best stick to the Latin!

Credo in unum Deum,
Patrem omnipoténtem,
Factórem cæli et terræ,
Visibílium ómnium et invisibílium.
Et in unum Dóminum Iesum Christum,
Fílium Dei Unigénitum,
Et ex Patre natum ante ómnia sæcula.
Deum de Deo, lumen de lúmine, Deum verum de Deo vero,
Génitum, non factum, consubstantiálem Patri:
Per quem ómnia facta sunt.
Qui propter nos hómines et propter nostram salútem
Descéndit de cælis.
Et incarnátus est de Spíritu Sancto
Ex María Vírgine, et homo factus est.
Crucifíxus étiam pro nobis sub Póntio Piláto;
Passus, et sepúltus est,
Et resurréxit tértia die, secúndum Scriptúras,
Et ascéndit in cælum, sedet ad déxteram Patris.
Et íterum ventúrus est cum glória,
Iudicáre vivos et mórtuos,
Cuius regni non erit finis.
Et in Spíritum Sanctum, Dóminum et vivificántem:
Qui ex Patre Filióque procédit.
Qui cum Patre et Fílio simul adorátur et conglorificátur:
Qui locútus est per prophétas.
Et unam, sanctam, cathólicam et apostólicam Ecclésiam.
Confíteor unum baptísma in remissiónem peccatorum.
Et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum,
Et vitam ventúri sæculi. Amen.

 

[tee_eff_em]

The CCC is different because the english translation of the Creed at the time that the CCC was written used that language. As I understand it, that was not a literal translation of the Creed, so the Creed was changed in english to reflect a more literal translation. The CCC has not been updated since then.

As a point of interest, the English here has been and remains a *less *literal translation. The Latin:
Crucifixus etiam pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato, passus et sepultus est, et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas, et ascendit in caelum, sedet ad dexteram Patris.
Makes no mention of dying nor death(!). The Latin of the Catechism does, however: *IESUS CHRISTUS EST «PASSUS SUB PONTIO PILATO, CROCIFIXUS,

MORTUUS

, ET SEPULTUS»*

I believe the original language of the creed is Greek, but since I know not that language I cannot tell what it says.

tee

 

[liquidayno]

Best stick to the Latin!

Don’t you mean Greek, the language the creed was crafted and originally written in?

 

[FightingFat]

Don’t you mean Greek, the language the creed was crafted and originally written in?

Πιστεύω εἰς ἕνα Θεόν, Πατέρα, Παντοκράτορα, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς, ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων.
Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων·
φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο.
Τὸν δι’ ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ σαρκωθέντα
ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς Παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα.
Σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα.
Καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ κατὰ τὰς Γραφάς.
Καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐκ δεξιῶν τοῦ Πατρός.
Καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς, οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος.
Καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ κύριον, τὸ ζῳοποιόν,
τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον,
τὸ σὺν Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον,
τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν.
Εἰς μίαν, Ἁγίαν, Καθολικὴν καὶ Ἀποστολικὴν Ἐκκλησίαν.
Ὁμολογῶ ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν.
Προσδοκῶ ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν.
Καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος.
Ἀμήν.

Actually the Latin text adds “Deum de Deo” and “Filioque” to the Greek.

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

I wonder why it was thought necessary to add “Deum de Deo.”

 

[tee_eff_em]

Σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα.

[Google Translate](http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#el/en/Σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου%2C καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα.) says: “We crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried.” So it would appear *death *is neither mentioned here.

The Latin of the Catechism does, however: *IESUS CHRISTUS EST «PASSUS SUB PONTIO PILATO, CROCIFIXUS,

MORTUUS

, ET SEPULTUS»*

AND, of course, the Catechism is expounding more or less on the Apostles’ Creed, not the Nicene, and which is quoted here.

tee

 

[Rolltide]

[Google Translate](http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#el/en/Σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου%2C καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα.) says: “We crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried.” So it would appear *death *is neither mentioned here.

AND, of course, the Catechism is expounding more or less on the Apostles’ Creed, not the Nicene, and which is quoted here.

tee

I don’t know Greek, but I suppose the question is whether or not the Greek word used simply indicates suffering, or actually refers to or implies suffering to the point of death.

 

[donna369]

why are there two creeds and why does one say Jesus descended into hell? in church we only say the Nicene which does not say He went into hell. this really confuses me. can they both be correct? can we say either one?

 

[ConstantineTG]

In the Orthodox Church in America, we do not say “died”. So it is consistent with the Greek.

In the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, they also only say “suffered and was buried”.

 

[ConstantineTG]

why are there two creeds and why does one say Jesus descended into hell? in church we only say the Nicene which does not say He went into hell. this really confuses me. can they both be correct? can we say either one?

The Apostle’s Creed, or the Baptismal Creed, was the earlier version of the Creed. In the Roman Catholic Church, either one is said depending on what your bishops says. In Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches, the Nicene Creed is said exclusively. The Apostle’s Creed lacks the affirmations that came from heresies that came later. Much of what was put into the Nicene Creed was to affirm the Divinity of Christ. Notice in the Apostle’s Creed there is no clear affirmation that Christ is divine.

The line “descended into hell” is one of the translations. Some other translations say “descended unto the dead”. The original Greek says “Hades” which is the abode of the dead, this is different from the inextinguishable fire called Gehenna.