The 'Normal Christian Birth'

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And I was thinking what on earth are we Catholics doing. Why do we take so long. Why give the devil months to get in and steal the seed. Where is the biblical model for telling peope to start an RCIA course in the Fall and baptising/confirming them next Easter.

In Acts people were always baptised there and then: on the day God made their hearts burn. I completely disagree with how the Catholics are bringing people into the Faith. It wrong: it’s no more biblical than the ‘evangelical model.’
Dalcent-

I’ll take a shot at answering your question; I’m going to quote scripture and appeal to reason.

First, please consider that the Jews who converted were steeped in a culture that revolved entirely around their faith in God. They KNEW the prophecies better than we do; it was only necessary to explain how the prophecies were fulfilled by Christ. Baptism could have followed quickly because they were better candidates for conversion than your average man on the street today who knows the statistics of the NFL better than he knows the ten commandments.

The Gentile believers who were baptized quickly are a different matter. I would speculate that these people were “simpler” in the sense that life itself was not as complex as it is today, and they made choices with far fewer “what if’s” detracting from the decision they made. Again, this is pure speculation on my part. However, I am convinced that even the Roman citizens - with their pantheon of gods - would have been fertile soil for the seed of the gospel because they BELIEVED the gods existed. They were pre-disposed to believe the true faith and they lived in a culture that accepted worship as a part of life. We really don’t.

Finally, it appears to me that the early Church was in a state of hypergrowth necessary for its survival (persecution broke out soon led by a young man named Saul) made possible by the Holy Spirit. Thousands joined the Church on the day of Pentecost alone. God continues to draw people to Himself through the Catholic Church, but not in “revival tents” or in big coliseums.

Consider the following parable of Jesus taken from Matthew 13:

1That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9He who has ears, let him hear.”

18"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. 23But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."

Over time the Church realized **from experience **that some of those baptized sprang up quickly, but because they had no root, they quickly fell away. so she prepares the soil by removing the rocks and stumps and adding nutrients. She seeks those who will produce “a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown” after baptism, confirmation and reception of the Eucharist.

To use another analogy drawn from a different parable., it takes a little longer to build a house on a bedrock foundation, but when a storm blows in, it will stand while the house built upon sand will not.

I hope you will agree that laying a firm foundation is a Very Good Thing.
 
I just don’t know Randy. As I said what possible advantage is there for a person to remain in mortal sin and unregenerate for 9 unnecessary months (or so) just to be sure he wants God to save him or to get a bit more knowledgable about the Faith?

It reminds me of the story of a man I know who wanted to become either Catholic or Orthodox. He went back and forth from one priest to the other wavering and eventually got baptised by the Orthodox becuase they agreed to baptise him promptly whereas the Catholics gave him a date 6 months off.

He tried bartering the Catholic priest down on the penultimate day, kind of the strategy you use when you’re buying a second hand car:eek: but the Catholic priest was having none of it. Anyway, the last I heard was he was on the road to the Orthodox priesthood.

Seriously though, aren’t you unregenerate and dead in your sins before you’re baptised. No wonder people like the Ethiopian Eunuch seemed in such a rush.
 
I just don’t know Randy. As I said what possible advantage is there for a person to remain in mortal sin and unregenerate for 9 unnecessary months (or so) just to be sure he wants God to save him or to get a bit more knowledgable about the Faith?

It reminds me of the story of a man I know who wanted to become either Catholic or Orthodox. He went back and forth from one priest to the other wavering and eventually got baptised by the Orthodox becuase they agreed to baptise him promptly whereas the Catholics gave him a date 6 months off.

He tried bartering the Catholic priest down on the penultimate day, kind of the strategy you use when you’re buying a second hand car:eek: but the Catholic priest was having none of it. Anyway, the last I heard was he was on the road to the Orthodox priesthood.

Seriously though, aren’t you unregenerate and dead in your sins before you’re baptised. No wonder people like the Ethiopian Eunuch seemed in such a rush.
Dalcent-

If a person has determined to enter the Catholic Church and has begun the process, they may be “dead in their sins” but they are not at risk of Hell over the issue of baptism. The Catholic Church recognized the “baptism of desire”.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

Conversely, if the Church baptizes someone who later falls away because their “conversion” was shallow and emotional without deep roots, then they could be truly lost forever if they leave the Church after receiving the sacraments.
 
Acts 8:4: Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word.
5: Philip went down to a city of Sama’ria, and proclaimed to them the Christ.
6: And the multitudes with one accord gave heed to what was said by Philip, when they heard him and saw the signs which he did.
7: For unclean spirits came out of many who were possessed, crying with a loud voice; and many who were paralyzed or lame were healed.
8: So there was much joy in that city.
9: But there was a man named Simon who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the nation of Sama’ria, saying that he himself was somebody great.
10: They all gave heed to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is that power of God which is called Great.”
11: And they gave heed to him, because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic.
12: But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women
13: Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.
14: Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Sama’ria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
15: who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit;
16: for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17: Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

Note in the above that Philip preaches, baptizes those who believe then quite a bit later John and Peter come to confer the Holy Spirit.

And if you continue to follow sacred scripture (18-24) it is clear about those who fall away after believing and are told to repent.

Paul calls it the “first installment of the guarantee” however he also calls for perseverance in the faith. What are the other installments? (v15-16) What about those who fall from the faith? (Magus above; also note Hebrews 6, Galatians 5, Revelation 2 & 3)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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