The Not-So-Quiet Room

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We’ve been members of our parish for about fifteen years. For the last five years the pastor has been an older, very dour priest. Mass attendance and parish census have dropped drastically. Last spring we were appointed a very new, energetic and very positive pastor. It’s been wonderful to see how much energy and life he’s brought into the parish. New programs have been started and old ones re-energized. Once again, the parking lot is full at Mass time.

He’s also made some changes to the church itself. Nothing earth-shaking, and he’s always done a good job of keeping parishioners in the loop and explaining why he’s making the changes. The last one was re-painting the quiet room in the back of the church and instead of the twelve chairs that have always been in there, only eight remain. At Mass last week Father explained that he doesn’t want it to be a habit for families, even those with young children, to spend the entire Mass in this room. If a child is crying, one parent should take the child into the room but only until the child is quiet.

We attend Mass with our DD and her family. When DGS1 was small, we never used the crying room. He was (and is) a quite and shy child. He was almost always asleep during Mass as an infant and would quietly look at a book or “write” on a small pad as a toddler. Then came DGS2, The Hurricane. He’s loud, outgoing, and completely uninhibited. Shushing him is effective for no more than a minute. When he “reads” a book, he exclaims loudly over its contents. He’s very fond of his navel and flashes it at every opportunity. He’s even more proud of his newly-acquired bathroom proficiency and discusses it in great detail every chance he gets. Last week I looked up from my post-Communion prayer to find him with his pants around his ankles so he could show off his Mickey Mounse underpants.

Obviously, attending Mass with him is challenging and we’ve been sitting in the quiet room for the entire Mass chiefly because DD is conscious of how disruptive other Mass attendees find his behavior. There are many who frowned and glared even when DGS1, who was pretty well-behaved at Mass, would occasionally ask a quiet question about the Mass.

Both DD and DH are very upset by Father’s comments. They both feel that, since we attend Mass every week at the same time and sit in the quiet room, every week, they were directed especially at us. DD is planning to attend Mass at a parish closer to her house. She feels that it is important to attend Mass as a family, and doesn’t want her DH to sit in the QR with one child while she is in the church proper with her older son, especially since her DH is a lapsed Catholic and would not continue to try to instill a sense of the Mass as she does. My DH does not like the church she will be attending. We’ve attend Mass there several times, and most of the priests have very, very heavy accents and he is completely unable to understand the sermons. (DH’s hearing is not the best.).

I feel like I’m completely in the middle on this one. I love attending Mass together as a family, and since our DGS’s father and paternal GF are non-practicing Catholics, I feel it’s very important that they have a male role model who is a good Catholic.

Is there anything I can do? Both DD and DH are convinced that they want to leave this parish. DD feels that she is making a good effort to attend Mass every week with her family, even though it is not always easy to do so and that she is being rebuked for doing it in a way that allows her to focus on the Mass and not solely on DGS2’s behavior. Is there any point in speaking about this with Father? If so, what can I say? He made it quite clear that we should all welcome the children and any disruption they might create, but he’s not the one sitting in the pew receiving glares from other parishioners.
 
Honestly, were I your DD, if I otherwise liked the current church I’d keep attending it.

We have a similar pastor, but in our situation, over 3,000 families at the church and seating for six (if they know each other very well indeed, 4 if not) on backless wooden benches in the narthex.

However, our parish is wonderful about young kids. Wonderful! We’ve gotten perhaps two nasty looks in the nearly 2 years that DD’s been going there (she’s almost 2 now). Most of the time, it’s encouraging comments or sympathetic chuckles. If she pulled the underwear stunt you described, the only problem would be that the pew would be full of people choking from trying not to laugh. 😃

(For a while as a newborn, she had a seemingly demonic penchant for timing burps and, er, other gaseous emissions for particularly quiet moments at Mass. This kept no few people in our vicinity highly amused, even as I no doubt discovered hitherto-unknown shades of red with my face.)

There was a time when DD simply couldn’t sit still and quietly during Mass, so either I or DH would take her out. Our priest suggested that parents just take the kid out, quiet them, and bring them back in, but we figured that going in and out a dozen times during Mass was more disturbing. I hated that, though, because I do NOT like being separated as a family during Mass. For a while, then, we all sat in the narthex, and we gradually brought her back into Mass. She still wiggles a lot during Mass, but she doesn’t make noise. Again, though, we’re in a pretty supportive parish, and there are a lot of young families. Last week, for example, she seemed unusually quiet after Communion, so I turned to check on her and found that a family of small boys behind us were taking turns “booping” her nose, to her great-but-silent delight. The parents were cool with it, and DD adored it, so I just said a quiet prayer of gratitude for being able to pray in peace after Communion and got on with it. Playing peek-a-boo with tiny babies isn’t unusual, either.

Long story short: this new priest sounds like a good guy, if perhaps a tad clueless about how small kids work. I suggest, if possible, giving it six months. Chances are that The Hurricane will be better behaved by then anyway, and a lot of things may have smoothed over.
 
Honestly, were I your DD, if I otherwise liked the current church I’d keep attending it.

We have a similar pastor, but in our situation, over 3,000 families at the church and seating for six (if they know each other very well indeed, 4 if not) on backless wooden benches in the narthex.

However, our parish is wonderful about young kids. Wonderful! We’ve gotten perhaps two nasty looks in the nearly 2 years that DD’s been going there (she’s almost 2 now). Most of the time, it’s encouraging comments or sympathetic chuckles. If she pulled the underwear stunt you described, the only problem would be that the pew would be full of people choking from trying not to laugh. 😃

(For a while as a newborn, she had a seemingly demonic penchant for timing burps and, er, other gaseous emissions for particularly quiet moments at Mass. This kept no few people in our vicinity highly amused, even as I no doubt discovered hitherto-unknown shades of red with my face.)

There was a time when DD simply couldn’t sit still and quietly during Mass, so either I or DH would take her out. Our priest suggested that parents just take the kid out, quiet them, and bring them back in, but we figured that going in and out a dozen times during Mass was more disturbing. I hated that, though, because I do NOT like being separated as a family during Mass. For a while, then, we all sat in the narthex, and we gradually brought her back into Mass. She still wiggles a lot during Mass, but she doesn’t make noise. Again, though, we’re in a pretty supportive parish, and there are a lot of young families. Last week, for example, she seemed unusually quiet after Communion, so I turned to check on her and found that a family of small boys behind us were taking turns “booping” her nose, to her great-but-silent delight. The parents were cool with it, and DD adored it, so I just said a quiet prayer of gratitude for being able to pray in peace after Communion and got on with it. Playing peek-a-boo with tiny babies isn’t unusual, either.

Long story short: this new priest sounds like a good guy, if perhaps a tad clueless about how small kids work. I suggest, if possible, giving it six months. Chances are that The Hurricane will be better behaved by then anyway, and a lot of things may have smoothed over.
👍

My oldest (4) is a Hurricane. He’s calmed down a lot lately. We don’t have a cry room and our parish is very child friendly. I would take Father’s words kindly. It seems they were meant to be encouraging.
 
Both DD and DH are very upset by Father’s comments. They both feel that, since we attend Mass every week at the same time and sit in the quiet room, every week, they were directed especially at us. DD is planning to attend Mass at a parish closer to her house. She feels that it is important to attend Mass as a family, and doesn’t want her DH to sit in the QR with one child while she is in the church proper with her older son, especially since her DH is a lapsed Catholic and would not continue to try to instill a sense of the Mass as she does.
I do agree with Father that the quiet room shouldn’t be an alternative to regular seating but should be an alternative to taking a child outside for a time to quiet it… which is what we all did in the past.

Priests have to be on the alert for practices that can subtly misrepresent the meaning of the Mass to kids and newer Catholics.

Perhaps you could ask Father to address the cranky pantses who try to guilt people with children. If he could explain why it was important for the congregation to be present with each other despite noisy kids, it might be edifying for the them as well.
 
Parents sometimes can not go to Mass together, or, while in Mass, sit apart because of cranky kids. It’s no big deal. Don’t cause disruptions, don’t reward kids by taking them out and letting them run wild, don’t feel ostracized because you are in the cry room. Frankly, once my kids were done, they were done - coming back in after a few minutes wasn’t going to happen. We’ve all been through it.

We’ve had discussions here about when to take children out, we are the pro-life church so expect kid disruptions, etc. They usually don’t end well.
 
What is a DGS? :confused:

Never mind, I think I know. Sorry, but I dislike the cutesy abbrevs. 😛
 
I’m pretty sure that when Father says he doesn’t want parents keeping their kids out of Mass the whole time, he’s not talking about:
  1. Kid who is sick
  2. Kid or adult who has mental issues and can’t stay through all of Mass
  3. Kid who is fully capable of throwing a tantrum for an hour, and who is happy to demonstrate
Et cetera, et cetera!

Father sounds like he’s just saying that if a kid can calm down and come back in, he wants the parent to bring them back in. The fact that he didn’t elaborate on all this stuff doesn’t mean that it isn’t included.

If you are really worried, you can always talk to Father or send him an explanatory letter. (Heck, if you’re shy, send him an anonymous letter!) But honestly, I think you can assume that you are not included whenever you have a more severe problem than what is being discussed.

And if anybody says something disapproving, you can always offer to let them take care of the baby. Heh, heh. 🙂
 
I do agree with Father that the quiet room shouldn’t be an alternative to regular seating but should be an alternative to taking a child outside for a time to quiet it… which is what we all did in the past.
I’ll second this. We always sat with our kids in the first 4 rows. This way they could see what was going on.

Our priest once said to me, he wish more parents would sit up front, because he always noticed the loudest kids were always in the back half of the church.

I would recommend your daughter stay and just ignore the glances. If that is what DD stands for, I’m not real good at the abbreviations either.😃
Priests have to be on the alert for practices that can subtly misrepresent the meaning of the Mass to kids and newer Catholics.
For some reason this quote reminded me of the Everybody Loves Raymond episode where Ray’s dad jumps all over him for not attending mass. Then when Ray finally goes to mass he finds out his dad is an usher and stands in the vestibule the entire mass talking with the other ushers about the football game.

I have seen, as your priest probably has, so many families sitting in the cry room doing their own thing or spacing out. Not saying your daughter does this but is very common.
 
What would you do if your parish had no cry room? Ours doesn’t.
 
What would you do if your parish had no cry room? Ours doesn’t.
Neither does ours. We just have a couple of wooden benches in the narthex.

Frankly, it’s a bit rough. During the 6 months or so we were out there with DD, we usually couldn’t sit at all because we’d give up our seats to pregnant moms or moms of newborns. That was rough when I was in the early pregnant stage–that is, standing for an hour and 15 minutes while holding a squirmy toddler.

It was further complicated because we expected DD to sit/stand quietly and not play or run around, but a lot of other parents treated the narthex as a place for toddlers or preschoolers to run and yell or play with games or toys.

On the other hand, though, she wasn’t mature enough to be quiet throughout Mass yet as she is now at not-quite-2, so having her in Mass and pushing boundaries/throwing fits/trying to escape wasn’t an option, either. I’m all in favor of having a church with the occasional kid-squeak in them, but I also agree that no one should have to listen to a tantrum throughout the Consecration.

It’s not easy. Also, I really, REALLY hated the feeling of being excluded from the rest of the parish just because we had a 1-year-old who, like most 1-year-olds, wasn’t up to sitting still or being quiet for over an hour.
 
Quiet Rooms…cry rooms…ugh…that’s not noise, that’s the sound of a living, growing parish…take out the other 8 seats and knock the walls down!
 
What would you do if your parish had no cry room? Ours doesn’t.
Ours doesn’t. I’ve taken my niece with me to Mass on a number of occasions since she was born last December, and she could be noisy. On one occasion, she decided our pastor was HILARIOUS and everytime he spoke, she started laughing/squealing really loudly.

When she is noisy to the point the she is disruptive, I step out of the church briefly to the foyer, where her noise is muffled a bit. As soon as she is quiet, I step back in. If she gets disruptive, I step out again.

I think the attitudes that need to change are from those that are glaring at your daughter and her child. I remember one little boy (about 2) who had squirmed away from his parents at the beginning of the Liturgy of the Eucharist by climbing UNDER the pew I was sitting on, and when I stood, he wrapped his hand around my ankle, scaring the bejeebers out of me. Everyone saw me jump, and then watched as I peered under the pew and coaxed this little boy out whilst reciting the responses to the beginning of the Eucharistic Prayer and then handed him over the pew back to his parents. No one got angry, or upset, or didn’t anything more than snicker. When the parents came to apologize to me after Mass, I reassured them there was no need to apologize just because their little boy acted like a little boy and had a great laugh over the whole incident.

They’re only little for a short time. I say embrace the proud displays of underwear (file it away for major life events when he’s a teenager and adult). Give him a picture Bible to read and let his excitement shine through. And when people glare at him, glare right back and remind them that even Jesus put a small child in the middle of his disciples and told them to be like that child.
 
OP, you certainly owe the priest the respect to talk to him before family members leave in anger. You shouldn’t even notice people “glaring” at little children. That is their problem, not yours.
 
👍

My oldest (4) is a Hurricane. He’s calmed down a lot lately. We don’t have a cry room and our parish is very child friendly. I would take Father’s words kindly. It seems they were meant to be encouraging.
We have FOUR cry rooms, and a lot of people use them and a lot don’t. We are a very large parish.
 
Why don’t you ask the Priest the question that you asked us? He can tell you how he feels that your family should handle the situation. He can explain the changes he made to the racket room. If you do this, you can set your mind at ease. More importantly, you can turn your full focus back to the Mass as it should be.
 
We’ve been members of our parish for about fifteen years. For the last five years the pastor has been an older, very dour priest. Mass attendance and parish census have dropped drastically. Last spring we were appointed a very new, energetic and very positive pastor. It’s been wonderful to see how much energy and life he’s brought into the parish. New programs have been started and old ones re-energized. Once again, the parking lot is full at Mass time.

He’s also made some changes to the church itself. Nothing earth-shaking, and he’s always done a good job of keeping parishioners in the loop and explaining why he’s making the changes. The last one was re-painting the quiet room in the back of the church and instead of the twelve chairs that have always been in there, only eight remain. At Mass last week Father explained that he doesn’t want it to be a habit for families, even those with young children, to spend the entire Mass in this room. If a child is crying, one parent should take the child into the room but only until the child is quiet.

We attend Mass with our DD and her family. When DGS1 was small, we never used the crying room. He was (and is) a quite and shy child. He was almost always asleep during Mass as an infant and would quietly look at a book or “write” on a small pad as a toddler. Then came DGS2, The Hurricane. He’s loud, outgoing, and completely uninhibited. Shushing him is effective for no more than a minute. When he “reads” a book, he exclaims loudly over its contents. He’s very fond of his navel and flashes it at every opportunity. He’s even more proud of his newly-acquired bathroom proficiency and discusses it in great detail every chance he gets. Last week I looked up from my post-Communion prayer to find him with his pants around his ankles so he could show off his Mickey Mounse underpants.

Obviously, attending Mass with him is challenging and we’ve been sitting in the quiet room for the entire Mass chiefly because DD is conscious of how disruptive other Mass attendees find his behavior. There are many who frowned and glared even when DGS1, who was pretty well-behaved at Mass, would occasionally ask a quiet question about the Mass.

Both DD and DH are very upset by Father’s comments. They both feel that, since we attend Mass every week at the same time and sit in the quiet room, every week, they were directed especially at us. DD is planning to attend Mass at a parish closer to her house. She feels that it is important to attend Mass as a family, and doesn’t want her DH to sit in the QR with one child while she is in the church proper with her older son, especially since her DH is a lapsed Catholic and would not continue to try to instill a sense of the Mass as she does. My DH does not like the church she will be attending. We’ve attend Mass there several times, and most of the priests have very, very heavy accents and he is completely unable to understand the sermons. (DH’s hearing is not the best.).

I feel like I’m completely in the middle on this one. I love attending Mass together as a family, and since our DGS’s father and paternal GF are non-practicing Catholics, I feel it’s very important that they have a male role model who is a good Catholic.

Is there anything I can do? Both DD and DH are convinced that they want to leave this parish. DD feels that she is making a good effort to attend Mass every week with her family, even though it is not always easy to do so and that she is being rebuked for doing it in a way that allows her to focus on the Mass and not solely on DGS2’s behavior. Is there any point in speaking about this with Father? If so, what can I say? He made it quite clear that we should all welcome the children and any disruption they might create, but he’s not the one sitting in the pew receiving glares from other parishioners.
I think it’s time to take Father to lunch and (when he’s about mid-way through) share your concerns.

How is Father to know there is a problem if he doesn’t get feedback?
 
I’m not bothered by children at Mass but also, think that child attendance at Mass is overrated.

My oldest was a dream of a child, my youngest is the exact opposite. In her toddler days, she amazed many with the fits she could pitch and didn’t care where it was.
 
I’m not bothered by children at Mass but also, think that child attendance at Mass is overrated.
Yeah.

There’s a reason that Mass attendance isn’t required for children until they’re pretty big.
 
Is there anything I can do? Both DD and DH are convinced that they want to leave this parish. DD feels that she is making a good effort to attend Mass every week with her family, even though it is not always easy to do so and that she is being rebuked for doing it in a way that allows her to focus on the Mass and not solely on DGS2’s behavior. Is there any point in speaking about this with Father? If so, what can I say? He made it quite clear that we should all welcome the children and any disruption they might create, but he’s not the one sitting in the pew receiving glares from other parishioners.
I think it might be worthwhile to have a conversation with the priest- it sounds like he might be a bit unaware of how difficult it can be sometimes for parents to make the effort to attend Mass as a family, and sometimes the cry room is how they are able to do it.

That is the case for us. Our son (16 months) is very difficult at Mass. He squirms, whines loudly, wants to be passed back and forth, gets upset when we don’t let him down, and especially as the Mass goes on can start screaming loudly. It is very disruptive and when we attend Mass where there is no cry room we spend the entire Mass getting up and taking him out in the back. So we started only going to another church, not our own parish, where there is a cry room, and where we can handle him without disrupting other people and without having to worry about all the attention, which is very anxiety-provoking for both myself and my husband. Otherwise, the option is for me to go myself and while to be honest sometimes I prefer that option because I can actually pay attention, it means that my husband doesn’t go at all because he wasn’t raised in the Church and doesn’t go unless he is with me, and so I prefer to go as a family not only for my son but also for my husband.

If the priest announced that this room was now only to be used for brief periods of time and not “as a habit”, I would be upset too. Like your daughter, it’s a big effort for us to control him during Mass, and also like your daughter, it is important to me that my husband is able to be there with me. The cry room allows us to do both, and if there is a room available I don’t really feel that it was necessary to make a judgment about when it is or is not necessary for the room to be used- that really should be up to the parents to decide.

Maybe you could just ask for some clarification from the priest, and relay whatever he says to your daughter. If it still seems like he’s not getting it, she’ll probably still want to change parishes (I probably would) but there is always the chance that he is either being misunderstood or maybe is just not aware of some of the needs of certain parishioners.
 
I’m not bothered by children at Mass but also, think that child attendance at Mass is overrated.
Yeah.

There’s a reason that Mass attendance isn’t required for children until they’re pretty big.
While I can think of several reasons why Mass attendance wouldn’t be required for children, I don’t agree with the notion that it is “overrated”. I don’t think the lack of requirement is due to lack of value in taking children to Church.

OP, are all four of you adults in the cry room with the two children? If that is the case, maybe you and your husband could sit outside the cry room? Maybe even at times with the child that behaves (unless parents want child with them). Your daughter could approach the priest and explain the situation. It is very possible the priest wanted to make it 100% clear to the parishioners that children of all ages were welcome at your parish and that normal noises of children are ok, that parents only need to leave with a child if they get too loud, and then they can come back. Maybe it was kind of to protect the parents that get stares etc. There is a very good chance that your daughter’s type of situation didn’t even cross his mind.
 
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