The not so virgin Mary

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Stouts989 said:
Why doesn’t the CCC give scripture to support the statements it makes about what the RCC believes?

I’m not trying to just argue with people. No need to worry about that. Trying to a gain better understanding of the RCC view of Mary.

It doesn’t matter to me weather Mary remained a virgin or not. If she did remain, Praise God! If she decided to have children with Joseph, then praise God!. It doesn’t have any effect on her salvation or her obedience to God in her willingness to serve Him in the way that she did. And I’m am very thankful for that. In the big picture its a mood point, but I do want to understand why I should believe what the RCC teaches about Mary.

So again thank you for the responses.
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In the first place, the New Testament, which often presents Jesus as Son of Mary in formal or equivalent terms, applies this name only to Him. Never does it apply this name to the brothers of the Lord. In St. Mark, the Nazerenes ask: “Is this not the son of Mary?” They do not say: “Is he not a son of Mary?” but “the son of Mary,” as though they knew no others. The text is all the more significant since in Greek the definite article is placed before a substantive attribute only to indicate that it presents something unique in its kind.

The testimony of Mary herself is a guarantee of her perpetual virginity. To the angel who announces to her that she is to be the mother of the Messias, the Mother of God, she mentions her resolution of remaining a virgin: “How shall this happen, since I do not know man?” She learns that God will, by a miracle, preserve her virginity intact. But, if even before becoming the Mother of God she had already resolved to remain a virgin, is it conceivable that she would have violated her resolution after God had consecrated her virginity by such a great miracle and had chosen her flesh to become the all-pure flesh of the Word Incarnate?
 
Hello all! I hope everyone is doing swell today. 🙂

I believe that Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary. Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived in her womb through the Holy Ghost. I don’t see any scriptural support that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus was born. I don’t see any reason why she should have to remain a virgin. Also, because Mary was married to Joseph, having sexual relations with him would not be a defilement neither would it be sin. I don’t prescribe to the notion that sex is inherintly a defilement or sinful. It is only sinful outside the bonds of marriage.

If Mary did have sexual relations with her husband Joseph, this wouldn’t affect the status of her or of her son, Jesus Christ. There is no negative consequence for Mary not being a perpetual virgin. Mary was a wonderful person who was chosen by God to be the mother of Jesus. She was blessed beyond any other woman because of this. I don’t see why or how her not remaining a virgin does anything to dimish these things. To sum up my view, I don’t see any scriptural reason for the belief, I don’t understand the need for it, nor do I see any benefit in believing in it.

Despite my own personal feelings, I respect the belief that others have on this point and I don’t think believing that Mary is a forever virgin makes anyone a bad person. 🙂

Kind Regards,
Finrock
 
+Every page in the “The Catechism of the Catholic Church” is loaded with footnotes which contain countless Scriptural references . . . you need to go to the Catechism yourself for further research and study . . .

Remember . . . the Sacred Scriptures . . . :bible1: . . . the Holy Bible . . . *came from . . . years and years and years of . . . *profoundly prayerful *. . . arduous and hard work . . . seeking out of the Heart and Mind of Christ . . . and the gift of Holy Discernment from the Holy Spirit . . . **on the part of the Holy Roman Catholic Church *. . . !

ALL the Scriptures you have been quoting ORIGINATED . . . in and from . . . the Holy Roman Catholic Church . . . ***praise be unto our Lord Jesus Christ . . . ***

Enough said . . .

God bless . . . *
​
. . . all for Jesus+*​
 
Finrock said:
I don’t see any scriptural support that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus was born.
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This of course does not make it so.
Conversely there is no scripture that says Mary had sex.
Finrock said:
I don’t see any reason why she should have to remain a virgin.
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Tradition states she made a vow of virginty from her childhood. She chose to remain a virgin, to devote herslef to God.
Finrock said:
Also, because Mary was married to Joseph, having sexual relations with him would not be a defilement neither would it be sin. I don’t prescribe to the notion that sex is inherintly a defilement or sinful. It is only sinful outside the bonds of marriage.
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Agree with the last point but if my wife gave birth to the Messiah I don’t know that I’d have sex with her.

The Ark carried the Word (OT) - Mary carried the Word (NT)
We know what happened to those who touched the ark
Finrock said:
I don’t see any scriptural reason for the belief, I don’t understand the need for it, nor do I see any benefit in believing in it.
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St Paul told us to hold onto tradtion both written AND oral
Finrock said:
Despite my own personal feelings, I respect the belief that others have on this point and I don’t think believing that Mary is a forever virgin makes anyone a bad person. 🙂

Kind Regards,
Finrock
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Very charitably put 👍
 
Stouts989 said:
This is referring to Mary?..

Who’s spoken tradition was he (Paul) referring to?

Because God set it up that way. Throughout the Old Testament God worked to make sure the Gospel was carried out through Jesus. Why wouldn’t He do the same to make sure we have His complete written Word?
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Yes, Ezekiel 44:2 is referring to her.
The spoken tradition is the Churchs’ tradition that Paul is speaking about. (oral tradition)
Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament, He is the New Testament.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, no one who touched the Ark lived
to tell about it, St. Joseph would have understood this, he also remained a virgin according to our belief. He is usually depicted holding a lily and that denotes virginity.
Some say that it could be that he was a widower who was chosen but I wasn’t taught that.
Anyway, happy learning and I do hope you did see all the footnotes in the Cathechism that refer to the Holy Bible.
 
Finrock said:
Hello all! I hope everyone is doing swell today. 🙂

I believe that Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary. Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived in her womb through the Holy Ghost. I don’t see any scriptural support that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus was born. I don’t see any reason why she should have to remain a virgin. Also, because Mary was married to Joseph, having sexual relations with him would not be a defilement neither would it be sin. I don’t prescribe to the notion that sex is inherintly a defilement or sinful. It is only sinful outside the bonds of marriage.

If Mary did have sexual relations with her husband Joseph, this wouldn’t affect the status of her or of her son, Jesus Christ. There is no negative consequence for Mary not being a perpetual virgin. Mary was a wonderful person who was chosen by God to be the mother of Jesus. She was blessed beyond any other woman because of this. I don’t see why or how her not remaining a virgin does anything to dimish these things. To sum up my view, I don’t see any scriptural reason for the belief, I don’t understand the need for it, nor do I see any benefit in believing in it.

Despite my own personal feelings, I respect the belief that others have on this point and I don’t think believing that Mary is a forever virgin makes anyone a bad person. 🙂

Kind Regards,
Finrock
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And best wishes to you Finrock. I agree, not believing Mary is a forever virgin does not make anyone a bad person. You are a good person because everything that God made is good.
However not believing that Mary is a perpetual virgin makes you a heretic because as stated by by Pope Martin I at the Council of Lateran in 649 A.D: "If anyone does not admit that the ever-Virgin and all-pure Mary . . . had conceived of the Holy Spirit, without seed, the Son of God and brought Him forth, her virginity remaining inviolate even after birth, let him be anathema.

Sorry for the bad news.
 
This post should be deleted because of a lack of decorum.

It is one thing to have a question or disagreement with the Catholic faith, but it is another to be disrespectful to the God’s Mother.

MTC
 
Jesus_123 said:
+Every page in the “The Catechism of the Catholic Church” is loaded with footnotes which contain countless Scriptural references . . . you need to go to the Catechism yourself for further research and study . . .

Remember . . . the Sacred Scriptures . . . :bible1: . . . the Holy Bible . . . *came from . . . years and years and years of . . . *profoundly prayerful **. . . arduous and hard work . . . seeking out of the Heart and Mind of Christ . . . and the gift of Holy Discernment from the Holy Spirit . . . **on the part of the Holy Roman Catholic Church **. . . !

ALL the Scriptures you have been quoting **ORIGINATED . . . in and from . . . **the Holy Roman Catholic Church . . . ***praise be unto our Lord Jesus Christ . . . ***

Enough said . . .

God bless . . . *
​
. . . all for Jesus*+​
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I have an online version of the CCC and when you search for specific topics or words…the footnotes aren’t given. It gives them when you read straight through it. Given the vast size of the CCC I always do key word searches…so I never saw the foot notes.

I’m glad I brought this up…now I know!..haha. TY!
 
scott1228 said:
This post should be deleted because of a lack of decorum.

It is one thing to have a question or disagreement with the Catholic faith, but it is another to be disrespectful to the God’s Mother.

MTC
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One would think wouldn’t one? Ah, let 'em talk scott. This way we can see the errors of their ways and learn all about them.
 
scott1228 said:
This post should be deleted because of a lack of decorum.

It is one thing to have a question or disagreement with the Catholic faith, but it is another to be disrespectful to the God’s Mother.

MTC
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I haven’t seen any disrespect for Mary in any of these post…quite the opposite…
 
Tomster said:
Check Genesis.
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If you’re referring to Gen. 1-2 that all took place before the fall of man…everything was good and perfect…then God allowed us to screw it all up…for His Glory.

but we can talk about this else where…don’t want to start a new topic within a topic.
 
Stouts989 said:
If you’re referring to Gen. 1-2 that all took place before the fall of man…everything was good and perfect…then God allowed us to screw it all up…for His Glory.

but we can talk about this else where…don’t want to start a new topic within a topic.
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Creation was good, is good and always be will be good.
 
Tomster said:
Creation was good, is good and always be will be good.
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Correct

It would be inconceivable (no pun) to think that God would make something intentionally sinful… that is, not good.

We, as Adam before us, have the free will to accept or reject.

Name one thing God made that you think He intended for bad.

.
 
MrS said:
Correct

It would be inconceivable (no pun) to think that God would make something intentionally sinful… that is, not good.

We, as Adam before us, have the free will to accept or reject.

Name one thing God made that you think He intended for bad.

.
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Satan, Pharaoh, and Judas just to name a few…
 
Stouts989 said:
Satan, Pharaoh, and Judas just to name a few…
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I think the key here is “intend.” Name one thing that God intended for bad.

I don’t think He intended for those to be bad, although, He did already know they would be. Remember, each of those fell.
 
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