The Obamas Find a Church Home — Away from Home [Southern Baptists]

[mkingdomlvr]

Whether they read the Bible at Trinity UCC is not relevant. What he will no longer get is the steady dose of hate and race-baiting that seems to be at the core of Jeremiah Wright’s “theology.”

I don’t think anyone at Trinity is getting Jeremiah Wright’s theology anymore. I believe he retired quite a while ago.

However, interpreting Scripture to justify hatred towards other people is certainly not limited to him. We know about him because of Obama, but he’s not the only Preacher that misuses the Bible to support their personal prejudices about people of other races, other faiths and different values and beliefs.

 

[Georgia]

Are you suggesting that the Bible is not read at Trinity UCC? How do you know this?

Actually Southern Baptists don’t read a lot of Scripture liturgically–pastors are expected to quote from Scripture in their sermons and base their sermons on thorough Biblical exegesis, but consecutive reading of Scripture in the Baptist tradition tends to be relegated primarily to the home (and to Bible study groups, Sunday School classes, etc.).

Edwin

You are absolutely right! When I started the journey from the Baptist church I grew up in, I was surprised at some things I found in the Bible. We went to Sunday School, to Sunday morning services, to Baptist Training Union, and to the evening service. We were in Bible Memory Association. I thought I knew the Bible and those poor Catholics didn’t. Wrong!

I had not the slightest idea how we hopped around in the Bible until later. There is no liturgical calendar, with the exception of Easter and Christmas services, so there is no set readings for particular dates. The preaching started with a few verses from one part of the Bible, went to some verses in another part, and maybe went to a few more with a similar theme in quotes chosen by the pastor. I really did not have a coherent view of the whole. There were lots of well worn passages, but there were plenty of things I never heard or noticed before.

That system lends itself to cherry-picking according to the tastes or beliefs of the pastor. It may or it may not, depending on the strength of the pastor of that military chapel, influence what he picks for the texts of any Sunday the Obamas are going to attend. One would think it unlikely he would select texts on, say, the sanctity of life when his commander-in-chief/abortion rights believer is sitting there. There is every reason he would want to avoid saying anything that would come back to bite him. That said, I suspect that the sermons are going to be rather bland.

Military officers are under pressure to get good ratings in order to remain in the service. Angering the president would be a quick way to ensure seeing civilian life soon.

 

[Tsuwano]

Oh the times they are a changin’!!

When I was a kid, the Southern Baptists wouldn’t let Black folks in their churches.

Well, that’s not exactly true. Many White Southern Baptist churches wouldn’t let Black folks join their congregations, but there have always been Black Southern Baptist churches. Martin Luther King was a Southern Baptist minister, as was his father before him. Nevertheless, you’re right that times are changing . . . for the better, I think. It’s truly a wonderful thing to see more and more interracial congregations in Christian churches, especially in the South.

 

[kalt]

Well, I don’t think anyone expected him to choose a Catholic Church.

Can you imagine a priest talking about abortion and hell, and Obama sitting there with his “smile”.

By the way… we know where the names come from for the Catholic Churches. Saints and other important events in salvation history are chosen and approved for the names. Often the ethnicity of the parishioners helps select the saint’s name

BUT…

how are the names of the non-Catholic churches selected. Granted, many Lutherans and a small portion of other denoms use saints names too (Catholic Saints, cuz that’s all there are).

What determines whether a building is called “1st” or “Street Name”, or “Location”. And is that determination an insight to the choice of theology of the hired pastor?

As I have stated in many other forums, my understanding is that the proper use of the word Jesus chose - “Church” - applies only to the Church He founded - the Catholic Church. All others simply usurp the name “church” when they are at best only a faith community founded by a man or a woman.

Obama, like many, has chosen his “church”, based on security perhaps, or based on privacy most likely. In any case he can go if and when he wants to. And he might even tithe cool. But he has nicely eliminated making any waves for a while.

Bottom line… this fits… non-denominational. Having it both ways.

.

The First Baptist Church here, was the first Baptist church here.

 

[SedesDomi]

Well, that’s not exactly true. Many White Southern Baptist churches wouldn’t let Black folks join their congregations, but there have always been Black Southern Baptist churches. Martin Luther King was a Southern Baptist minister, as was his father before him. Nevertheless, you’re right that times are changing . . . for the better, I think. It’s truly a wonderful thing to see more and more interracial congregations in Christian churches, especially in the South.

We’re talking about the Southern Baptist Convention, which is a particular Baptist denomination – actually, it’s THE largest Baptist denomination in America. The Southern Baptist Convention was initially founded upon the “rights” of Christians to own slaves, and it naturally was not a happy denomination for Black Baptists to join.

Most Black Baptists do not belong to the SBC; they belong to other, Black Baptist denominations, the largest of which is the National Baptist Convention, founded in the late 1800s. Martin Luther King Jr. was a member of an offshoot of the NBC: the Progressive National Baptist Convention, which he helped establish in 1961.

 

[Contarini]

A gentle correction . . . the Southern Baptists Biblical strength lies not only in their worship services . . . but in a strong . . . extremely well attended . . . mostly Sunday School Biblical catechetical/teaching ministry . . . which holds classes for all ages

It’s not a correction, gentle or otherwise. I explicitly recognized this in the post which you quoted.

The same applies to the poster who said that the question of whether Trinity UCC reads Scripture liturgically is irrelevant. The poster to whom I was responding was specifically talking about Scripture being read in worship.

As for Jeremiah Wright’s alleged “hate”–Obama may not get that, but he may get other things that Catholics would hopefully consider just as distorted. (I don’t think that Rev. Wright’s sermons can be described as “hateful,” actually–I think “hate” is a word slung around much too easily these days.)

Edwin

 

[tcm22]

It’s not a correction, gentle or otherwise. I explicitly recognized this in the post which you quoted.

The same applies to the poster who said that the question of whether Trinity UCC reads Scripture liturgically is irrelevant. The poster to whom I was responding was specifically talking about Scripture being read in worship.

As for Jeremiah Wright’s alleged “hate”–Obama may not get that, but he may get other things that Catholics would hopefully consider just as distorted. (I don’t think that Rev. Wright’s sermons can be described as “hateful,” actually–I think “hate” is a word slung around much too easily these days.)

Edwin

I think calling Wright’s perspective anything but hateful is to sugar coat what it is. This is the guy who publicly proclaimed the US invented HIV as a tool of genocide. I don’t see how you can call that anything but hateful and ignorant. Wright is an educated man and certainly knows better, but he’s perfectly willing to spout that sort of drivel to rile up a crowd. That’s about as far from anyone’s version of Christianity you can get.

A simple Google search turns up some real gems. If I ever heard anything like this in a Catholic Church, I would walk out and never return.

All the scripture readings in the world don’t change the fact that for 20 years Obama claimed to be a follower of this man’s twisted version of Christianity. I’m sure whatever Church Obama choses in the future will be a far cry better than the trash that was spewed out in the UCC.

I strongly suspect Obama had very little interest in what was said by Wright and the staff of UCC, but was more a political move to establish his credibility in Chicago Southside politics. That said, the title of his book “The Audacity of Hope” is a quote from Wright’s sermons. Apparently he listened once in a while.

“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.” (Sep 2001)

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.” (2003)

“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01. White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.” (magazine article)

“Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!…We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.” (sermon)

“Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary would never know that. Hillary ain’t never been called a ******. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.”

“Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.” (sermon)

“The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for over 40 years now. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community and wake up Americans concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism.”

 

[SedesDomi]

I think calling Wright’s perspective anything but hateful is to sugar coat what it is. This is the guy who publicly proclaimed the US invented HIV as a tool of genocide. I don’t see how you can call that anything but hateful and ignorant.

I think the whole Wright issue is a sign of the huge racial divide in America. (I don’t know if you’re African American or not, so I’m not accusing you of anything personally.) Wright, like most African Americans, is aware of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments. Given that the experiments were the brainchild of a government agency, it’s understandable that many Blacks today might be suspicious regarding the government’s role in Black health and well-being.

For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,” their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all.

The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”…

In 1990, a survey found that 10 percent of African Americans believed that the U.S. government created AIDS as a plot to exterminate blacks, and another 20 percent could not rule out the possibility that this might be true. As preposterous and paranoid as this may sound, at one time the Tuskegee experiment must have seemed equally farfetched.

Who could imagine the government, all the way up to the Surgeon General of the United States, deliberately allowing a group of its citizens to die from a terrible disease for the sake of an ill-conceived experiment? In light of this and many other shameful episodes in our history, African Americans’ widespread mistrust of the government and white society in general should not be a surprise to anyone.

In his infamous appearance at the National Press Club, Wright stated that the government was “capable” of nefarious activities, referencing the experiments in Tuskegee, among other things. And most Blacks would certainly agree with that statement, even if they may not agree that the U.S. government actually did create HIV. Many of Wright’s other comments are likewise understandable in terms of the African American experience (which is why his controversial quotes come out of a sermon in a predominately African American congregation, a congregation that, by the way, is part of a predominately white denomination.) Take these comments out of that context, and Fox News has a field day.

 

[tcm22]

I think the whole Wright issue is a sign of the huge racial divide in America. (I don’t know if you’re African American or not, so I’m not accusing you of anything personally.) Wright, like most African Americans, is aware of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments. Given that the experiments were the brainchild of a government agency, it’s understandable that many Blacks today might be suspicious regarding the government’s role in Black health and well-being.

In his infamous appearance at the National Press Club, Wright stated that the government was “capable” of nefarious activities, referencing the experiments in Tuskegee, among other things. And most Blacks would certainly agree with that statement, even if they may not agree that the U.S. government actually did create HIV. Many of Wright’s other comments are likewise understandable in terms of the African American experience (which is why his controversial quotes come out of a sermon in a predominately African American congregation, a congregation that, by the way, is part of a predominately white denomination.) Take these comments out of that context, and Fox News has a field day.

The Tuskegee experiment is certainly a stain on the USA history, but it certainly doesn’t excuse Reverend Wright’s conduct. If anything I would accuse him of exploiting the sensitivities resulting from those events to foster fear and hatred based on unfounded events.

In light of the experiment, a guy like Jeremiah Wright should be called to task for suggesting the US government “invented” HIV rather than excused for it.

By any stretch, black or white, he is a despicable man. Racial politics and history shouldn’t give anyone a pass on race-baiting and hateful speeches given in the name of God.

Getting back to the original thread…I’m pretty confident that wherever Obama ends up attending Church, it will be a far cry better than the Rev Wright cesspool he sat in for 20 years – Scripture reading or otherwise!