The Occult: Real Threat or Dark Intentions

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This is something I’ve so far found very difficult to pin down when asking Catholics I know personally or when asking church attendees.

Magic. Do Catholics believe, or rather seeing how these things usually work should they believe in it?

While I understand the Church has a long and colorful history on dealing with matters such as demonic possession, black masses, exorcism, witchcraft and such (some overplayed) up until Francis’ installation of Pope there’s been very little talk about it in the western world for several decades if in some locations not centuries. Certainly there are freak cases like that of Anneliese Michel, a girl with epilepsy that the German Catholic Church mistook for being possessed by demons during the 1970’s but by and large “the Occult” seems to generally be scoffed at. “Demonic Possession” during the middle ages were simply mental illnesses, Witches and Ghosts don’t exist and similar opinions. When questioned about it’s continual popularity in Latin America and Africa it is almost always attributed to low education standards and ignorance of psychiatric medicine.

As far as Theology goes…Are Catholics obliged to believe in anything regarding “Magic”; that there are individuals with a hotline to Satan and can petition him for favors, that some people are the pawns of various demons or that some individuals can speak to the dead? If yes I guess some of Francis’ statements make sense but if not why are so many “occult”, especially New-Age practices so loudly condemned? Is it the intent, the active attempt to call upon supernatural forces that damns the individual even if there is no chance of success?

Any insight would be appreciated, many thanks!
 
Cake_or_Death said:
Are Catholics obliged to believe in anything regarding “Magic”; that there are individuals with a hotline to Satan and can petition him for favors
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Actually, Catholics are NOT allowed to believe such a thing. Only God can perform miracles. Not even Saints can perform miracles (of their own ability). Angels and demons certainly cannot perform miracles (of their own ability).

You cannot “sell” you soul to the devil (he has nothing with which to pay you). You can, however, give it to him for free.
that some people are the pawns of various demons
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Demons cannot overcome our free will. The devil cannot “make” you do anything at all. But he often serves as a scapegoat for our own sinful decisions when we don’t want to take responsibility for them.
or that some individuals can speak to the dead
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Well, we speak to the dead all the times. It’s called praying to Saints. Two-way communication is possible, but only by divine miracle (and that’s actually how one-way communication happens).

The Church neither endorses nor contravenes the concept of “ghosts.” A Catholic is free to believe (or not believe) in ghosts (but talking to them is another thing).
why are so many “occult”, especially New-Age practices so loudly condemned?
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Are they? That would be refreshing.
 
First of all, the Church has consistently taught that the only reason “magic” would ever work is if demons are lending out their powers to humans, in order to trick humans and get them to do evil things (like worshipping demons, slaughtering people, etc.).

The Church has also consistently taught that the power of Jesus can stop the use of demonic power, and in most cases, a baptized Christian or a pagan who calls on Jesus’ Name can stop that stuff just by saying His Name. In severe cases, there are exorcists.

The Church has also taught that usually, demons don’t do this stuff openly, and humans are just tricking themselves.

So for example, in the 6th and 7th centuries in Germany, there were Church canons that would excommunicate you for calling somebody else a witch, or beating them up for being a witch, or for saying that a pagan priest or priestess had special magic pagan powers. A real Christian wasn’t afraid of this stuff.

Later on, you see a lot of confusion about what was science (and thus used God’s Creation and its natural properties) and what was magic. For example, a lot of early chemical experimentation was thought to be “natural magic,” as opposed to demonic magic. The more people understood actual properties of nature, the more it became clear that science was good and magic was nonsense.

Later on, you see a lot more fear of demonic activity, and trying to deal with demons and do magic was classified as heresy. This seems to be associated with a lot of bad stuff happening in Europe like wars and plagues, a loss of belief in the power of Christ, Mary, and the saints, and also with the Protestant belief in total reprobate sinners.

Later on, you get more belief in science and skepticism, but usually there’s a resurgence in belief in demonic activity and human helplessness whenever bad stuff happens.
 
Magic. Do Catholics believe, or rather seeing how these things usually work should they believe in it?
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Any supernatural event can be the work of demons, yes. However, it is also possible that supernatural events can come about by the work of the Creator as well, acting through angels, saints, etc.
As far as Theology goes…Are Catholics obliged to believe in anything regarding “Magic”; that there are individuals with a hotline to Satan and can petition him for favors, that some people are the pawns of various demons or that some individuals can speak to the dead? If yes I guess some of Francis’ statements make sense but if not why are so many “occult”, especially New-Age practices so loudly condemned? Is it the intent, the active attempt to call upon supernatural forces that damns the individual even if there is no chance of success?
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Read Fr. Malachi Martin’s book, “Hostage to the Devil”. In this book, he describes individuals that are perfectly possessed, and have been completely overtaken by evil, satanic forces.

While rare, the perfectly possessed individual might have what you consider to be a “hotline” to the Devil, yes. They are also very unassuming, and are not easily detected because they hide their true self very well.

Occult practices are condemned because they can eventually lead to possession. Demons can be very powerful, so once you open the door (with or without intent to do so), you are opening yourself up to possession.
 
“Cake or Death”,

There are the fallen angels to contend with. The Lord allows them to tempt us, but they are on a leash, so to speak.

When we resist temptation, we become stronger in virtue.

When someone dabbles in things that are forbidden they get hurt.

There is no need to unnecessarily focus on the fallen angels; but it is helpful to know they exist.

We have the remedy for all our ills: Jesus Christ our Lord!

There is an excellent book written by Moira Noonan titled “Ransomed from Darkness”. It is not written in a sensational way, and is an great explanation how she got started on the wrong track with new age practices and then how she got out of it.

New age practices are rampant in today’s society. They are designed to be esoteric and enlightening, and they are seriously deceptive.
 
The Church understands the difference between mental disorders and demonic possession. The devil is quite real.

The Occult was the first label for the New Age. The New Age is simply a repackaging of what went before. In my studies of this, the following facts exist today: Satanism, books that encourage individuals to open themselves to outside intelligent beings, with “spirit guides” being only one name I will mention, and various forms of divination. Books that claim to contain “real spells” exist. Persons called "mediums"conducted seances in an attempt to contact the dead, with supposedly “real” results. There are other subjects but my goal is not to inspire others into searching for such knowledge. But knowing the Devil and demons exist when we try anything to catch their attention is a problem. I was at a gas station and glanced at another car. On it was a sticker that read: “I’m a witch. Get over it.” The Bible is quite to the point about the Devil.

biblehub.com/1_peter/5-8.htm

So, there are “Psychic Readers” and others who will tell your future or “enlighten” you about your current state of affairs. There are books that tell how to use certain stones for divination. I recommend:

Dark Secrets of the New Age by Texe Marrs. It’s a good book that shows that evil is quite real and that people can be so caught up in it that they may end up making themselves god, believing falsehoods and engaging in practices that invite possession.

People involved in the New Age risk damnation if they reject Jesus Christ - true God and true man. But many of these people believe that there is another truth. A better truth. Or are just confused. Only God knows what’s in their hearts, and yes, even they can be saved. Only God can be their final judge. The Bible tells us about false prophets. Now not everyone involved in the New Age is a person who desires evil but who has heard or read something that promises them something good, but, eventually, is a lie.

For some, what starts as a honest quest to ‘fill the void’ in their lives or a convincing sounding message can be their spiritual undoing, but God is still with you.

Ed
 
Cake_or_Death said:
This is something I’ve so far found very difficult to pin down when asking Catholics I know personally or when asking church attendees.

Magic. Do Catholics believe, or rather seeing how these things usually work should they believe in it?

While I understand the Church has a long and colorful history on dealing with matters such as demonic possession, black masses, exorcism, witchcraft and such (some overplayed) up until Francis’ installation of Pope there’s been very little talk about it in the western world for several decades if in some locations not centuries. Certainly there are freak cases like that of Anneliese Michel, a girl with epilepsy that the German Catholic Church mistook for being possessed by demons during the 1970’s but by and large “the Occult” seems to generally be scoffed at. “Demonic Possession” during the middle ages were simply mental illnesses, Witches and Ghosts don’t exist and similar opinions. When questioned about it’s continual popularity in Latin America and Africa it is almost always attributed to low education standards and ignorance of psychiatric medicine.

As far as Theology goes…Are Catholics obliged to believe in anything regarding “Magic”; that there are individuals with a hotline to Satan and can petition him for favors, that some people are the pawns of various demons or that some individuals can speak to the dead? If yes I guess some of Francis’ statements make sense but if not why are so many “occult”, especially New-Age practices so loudly condemned? Is it the intent, the active attempt to call upon supernatural forces that damns the individual even if there is no chance of success?

Any insight would be appreciated, many thanks!
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Like everything, it entirely depends upon how you define your terms. “Occult” simply means occulted/blocked/hidden from view. “Magic” has many definitions, and so it just depends on how you’re using the word. If you mean “real” magic, like Doctor Strange shooting bolts of flame or whatever from his hands, then obviously that’s just make-believe children’s stuff. More mature definitions of magic are quite interesting though, and not anti-Catholic in any way. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the alleged beliefs some reactionary Catholics held in the middle ages. Meaning, what science currently cannot explain could accurately be called magic, again, according to some people’s definitions. The question is very messy, and it seems counter-productive to me. And yes, I am personally extremely interested in what some might refer to as “magic.” My personal favorite “magic” treatises are Rupert Sheldrake’s.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake

I encourage all CAF members to investigate his research. It’s without doubt some kind of scientific frontier!🤷
 
Let me start by telling you that I cannot tell you about what the Catholic church teaches about these things, all I know is that it is forbidden and imo, for good reason. I can tell you about what I have experienced.

There is a real threat but just not in the way that Hollywood likes to portray. My mother was once an avid user of the ouji board and I don’t think that she actually contacted any real spirits, but I did notice a cause and effect.
In using the ouji board, it gave her some kind of a mental “high” due to the fact that she began to assume that she knew things she wouldn’t normally have known and also made her think that she had a lot more control over things than what she really did.
It caused a weird kind of magical thinking which is comparable to many personality disorders witch in turn caused to to behave in the worst kind of ways. So to say that it spilled over into the other aspects of her life was an understatement, in a very negative way. Once that door was opened, there was no closing it. She is still like it today even though she doesn’t use it anymore. Maybe it was just a phase, so many like to experiment with it.

Once she started down that track, it was like a gateway to other things like tarot cards, divination, seeking the advice of fortune tellers who only sought to take advantage while my mother took what they said to be like the Gods own truth. She became paranoid about the unseen like ghosts and thought she was a witch. Being a small child while all of this was going on made me bury my head in the sheets so many nights as it was terrifying when she said things like my favorite dolls were haunted and there were demons coming to get me if I were bad.

It had an overall negative effect, I really don’t know what came first, the personality disorder or the “magic”. Real or not real, it was still very damaging.
 
I recommend you these books that deal with the subject.

An Exorcist Tells His Story
Amorth, Fr. Gabriele

An Exorcist: More Stories
Gabriele Amorth

Interview With an Exorcist
by Fr. Jose Antonio Fortea
 
“Any insight would be appreciated, many thanks!”

The Church condemns any form of occultism. The occult is basically humans trying to become gods by attempting to gain supernatural powers of divination, manipulation, false prophesy, etc.

There are possessions, infestations, and temptations. All come from demonic forces. There isn’t such a thing as white magic, invoking natural astral forces to help you in any way… They are all demonic in source.

The New Age movement is really not new at all. It’s ancient, as in after an incident in Eden ancient. It is a name that sounds more innocent and progressive, but in reality it seeks to make creation a god, including ourselves.

Just know two simple things, there is only One Creator and we are creatures.
 
Miracles are from God.

Here is what the Catechism tells us about magic:

“2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.”

Peace,
Ed
 
Magdalenaa said:
“Any insight would be appreciated, many thanks!”

The Church condemns any form of occultism. The occult is basically humans trying to become gods by attempting to gain supernatural powers of divination, manipulation, false prophesy, etc.

There are possessions, infestations, and temptations. All come from demonic forces. There isn’t such a thing as white magic, invoking natural astral forces to help you in any way… They are all demonic in source.

The New Age movement is really not new at all. It’s ancient, as in after an incident in Eden ancient. It is a name that sounds more innocent and progressive, but in reality it seeks to make creation a god, including ourselves.

Just know two simple things, there is only One Creator and we are creatures.
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Amen! Thank you.
 
edwest2 said:
Miracles are from God.

Here is what the Catechism tells us about magic:

“2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.”

Peace,
Ed
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Thanks be to God for the Church’s teachings!
 
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