The Offertory-- A bad hair day and other visuals

[Blessed_Lady]

Our church use to pass the baskets from row to row to collect the money envelopes, and had a designated area outside for the canned goods. Before that the ushers went row by row with the long stick baskets. Recently, the pastoral council and liturgy committee imposed a new practice. Everyone parades up the center isle to the sanctuary in two rows with their envelopes and canned goods, and places them in one of 4 big baskets in front of the altar, then parades around back to their seats. This created a huge distraction and cause for chatting just before the consecration. There were grumblings of disagreement among the laity which were voiced to the council and pastor, yet the practice continued until the pastor retired. They tried upping the music which I think caused more of a problem… My understanding from one of your articles is that this practice is prohibited. I wrote the new Pastor a note with that information, and a respectful request to remove the baskets from the sanctuary and stop this distraction. To my dismay, this past Sunday, he put it up for a vote among the laity instead of stopping the practice. Is this parading up with the offering by the laity just before the consecration permitted or prohibited?

 

[japhy]

Recently, the pastoral council and liturgy committee imposed a new practice. Everyone parades up the center isle to the sanctuary in two rows with their envelopes and canned goods, and places them in one of 4 big baskets in front of the altar, then parades around back to their seats. This created a huge distraction and cause for chatting just before the consecration. There were grumblings of disagreement among the laity which were voiced to the council and pastor, yet the practice continued until the pastor retired. … Is this parading up with the offering by the laity just before the consecration permitted or prohibited?

Well, I’ve never heard of it done that way before. I don’t think this part of the Mass is rigorously defined. The two methods I’ve seen are the two you’d mentioned first: ushers with baskets on poles, and baskets that get passed along the pews. This is all the GIRM (#73) has to say about the matter:
The offerings are then brought forward. It is praiseworthy for the bread and wine to be presented by the faithful. They are then accepted at an appropriate place by the priest or the deacon and carried to the altar. Even though the faithful no longer bring from their own possessions the bread and wine intended for the liturgy as in the past, nevertheless the rite of carrying up the offerings still retains its force and its spiritual significance.

It is well also that money or other gifts for the poor or for the Church, brought by the faithful or collected in the church, should be received. These are to be put in a suitable place but away from the eucharistic table.
So it doesn’t really describe how the collection should be done. The proper posture of the faithful at this time should be sitting (from after the Prayer of the Faithful until the Orate Fratres), with the obvious exception of those who are presenting the bread and wine to the priest.

I’m curious what the motive for the change in your parish was. Is it an attempt to guilt-trip people into making donations and bringing in canned goods? Is it to put the attention on the people?

 

[catherineajt]

Personally I dislike a public offertory in large parishes. At our old church, we used to just put our check in the candle box (it was an Orthodox church), because we knew they emptied the candle box into the general Offertory basket just before taking it up to the altar anyway. Usually when the offertory time came around, we were busy wrangling our toddler and infant and would miss the basket! So this made it easy for us.

I have never liked the public collection. I don’t mind it as much at our current parish, a very small Byzantine chapel, because it takes very little time and we sit in the back of the congregation anyway. My husband remembers going to church in Mexico, where everybody made sure their offering was in coins and they would slam them into the basket and make lots of noise—the more noise the more you were giving, and it was a show to prove you were giving a lot to the church!

I think it would be a lot more efficient if people could drop their money offerings into a box or basket in the entryway, as well as the canned goods, and then the ushers can just pick those up and bring them up during the Offertory.

See? Problem solved. Next i will work on world peace.

 

[Blessed_Lady]

“…but away from the eucharistic table…” AKA altar. Hmmm.

Motive? Much at my church in my opinion is ‘over the top,’ from the music to the installation of a state of the art screen that automatically rises to the occasion (quarter of a mil went in to that). The music minister also copies the Sunday readings and music on to ‘worship aids.’ Motive? It appears to me that there has been much protestant influence, egoism, and a subtle infiltration of new age concepts–but that is my opinion based on what I see and know.

Most of the pastoral council members (who are also in committees) are made up of professionals–mainly lawyers, some accountants, and a couple of others-- and appear to be working on the PR to enhance our Masses. This resulted from a survey of the laity indicating dissatisfaction with the Mass as it was… so now the liturgy committee is likely trying to ‘enhance’ the Mass. How does that relate to the collection? I think it’s an over reaction to the that much quoted phrase in the United States GIRM about having the laity in “active participation” in the Mass.

Can anyone give me a more definitive answer to my original question beyond the GIRM?

 

[japhy]

Most of the pastoral council members (who are also in committees) are made up of professionals–mainly lawyers, some accountants, and a couple of others-- and appear to be working on the PR to enhance our Masses. This resulted from a survey of the laity indicating dissatisfaction with the Mass as it was… so now the liturgy committee is likely trying to ‘enhance’ the Mass. How does that relate to the collection? I think it’s an over reaction to the that much quoted phrase in the United States GIRM about having the laity in “active participation” in the Mass. Can anyone give me a more definitive answer to my original question beyond the GIRM?

Well, they’re certainly adding their own thing to the Mass, which any liturgical document will tell you is simply not allowed. How does this processional assist the people in worshiping God? All this “active participation” ends up being is “being busy” rather than spiritually preparing one’s self for the Mass. How much that’s been added by self-styled liturgists has been prayerful, silent, solemn, and not focused on giving the people another thing to do?

 

[love4mary]

We have 4 ushers and our seating is arraigned in four sections. Each usher takes a basket and hands it to the first person in each row as they pass it down. While this is taking place, the usher does a head count (required by the diocese). Then the head usher and one other will take the offertory directly to the office safe where it will stay till Monday morning when the finance commity counts it. The collection is Never placed on the Altar as in some parishes I have seen.

 

[idrum677]

This reminds me of Jesus teaching about the hypocrytes who sit in the front of the synagogue making a spectacle on how righteous they were.

This whole thing seems pompus to me. Its a parade to show everyone how much I am giving. :clapping: