The old invincible ignorance and outside the Curch there is no salvation question

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I am struggling with the idea so my question is: Is the teaching of invincible ignorance infallible? And is the idea that non christians can go to heaven also infallible? And If I just cannot reconcile this with my idea of justice, theology, and logic what do I do?
What if I believe that if you are in ignorance or not christian you go to hell?
 
Catholicpotato said:
I am struggling with the idea so my question is: Is the teaching of invincible ignorance infallible? And is the idea that non christians can go to heaven also infallible? And If I just cannot reconcile this with my idea of justice, theology, and logic what do I do?
What if I believe that if you are in ignorance or not christian you go to hell?
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In spiritual terms no person is really ‘outside’ of Holy Mother Church.

As for believing if you are in ignorance or not christian you go to hell - if you believe this you are in error.

God Bless,
Paduard.
 
As I understand Church teaching, the Roman Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ.

As a body, it has a soul which animates it. The soul is the Holy Spirit and the gifts which he bestows.

Someone is an actual member of the body if and only if they (i) have received valid water baptism, (ii) profess belief in all Catholic truths [even if they’re ignorant of some], and (iii) are not separated from the Church by excommunication, heresy, schism or apostasy.

Someone is a member of the soul of the Church if and only if their soul is justified.

Any person who is a member of the soul belongs to the body of Christ, even if they’re not an actual member of this body. Only Roman Catholics are actual members, but not all Roman Catholics are justified.

All those folks who are members of the soul but aren’t actual members of the body nevertheless belong to the body in an important sense. These individuals include catechumens who are justified, and those invincibly ignorant people who are justified.

This is possible because the Church is not just the Church militant, i.e., the Roman Catholic Church. You also have the Church Triumphant (those in heaven) and the Church suffering, (those in purgatory). Therefore, the “Church” comprises these three aspects. So, someone can belong to the ‘Church’ in this broader sense while not being Roman Catholic.
 
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Catholicpotato:
And is the idea that non christians can go to heaven also infallible?
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Christ said to the thief on the cross, something about being in paradise. And the thief wasn’t even “Christian”, at least not in the sense of “formally” joining the Church.
And If I just cannot reconcile this with my idea of justice, theology, and logic what do I do?
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What is your idea of justice, theology, and logic?
What if I believe that if you are in ignorance or not christian you go to hell?
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Then you believe incorrectly, as far as the Church is concerned.
 
It does us no good at all to try and figure out or believe just who will end in Hell and why, IMO. Regardless of what we might want to think, God is not required to judge others by our standard. He will judge by His standard, not our’s. God’s ways are far above man’s ways.

Christ become Man to save us, not to condemn us. Christ commanded us to love God, ourselves, and others as best we can. And to seek His forgiveness when we do not do the best we could.

Love is wanting and working for what is best for others. The ultimate best is eternity in Heaven. It just doesn’t seem like love to try and hold a belief as to who is on their way to Hell.

Christ also said He had sheep in other flocks. Christ also told us about the Master’s freedom to set a contract with one that is different than the contract with another. One agreed to work all day for a day’s wages. Then the Master paid one who worked only 2 hours a full day’s wages. The one who agreed to all day had no basis for complaint.

It is not ours to worry about how others will be judged. But is ours to try to help them see the value in following Christ more closely.
 
I believe the easiest way to explain it can be that Christ is the Head of the Church. People who follow Christ’s true teachings and are truly good people are following the Head of the Church making them technically Catholic. If one doesnt follow Christ of no fault of their own but listens to their conscience is following what God placed in them. This means they are following God who is once again the Head of the Church making them technically Catholic. So, they are technically not “outside” of the church while they are not baptized members of the Church.
 
I think the thief on the cross argument is a red herring. He professed his faith in Jesus and we have no proof that he wasnt baptized by John’s baptism.
If one does not need to be at least Christian to be saved then why in the world would we preach a harder way to be saved? Why not just let good people be good and worship whatever they think is god?
Jesus knew how hard it would be to attain salvation. He gave us not only His death, but also His teachings and the new Law. I know how hard it is to keep a state of grace for any length of time (which is why we should frequent confession) But how in the world does someone who is not a Christian attain and keep a state of Grace that would be required to attain heaven?
 
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