The old Quran fragments in Yemen.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sam_777
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sam_777

Guest
I wonder if Muslims will ever know the truth about that Quran…

“a prospect that thrills Puin. “So many Muslims have this belief that everything between the two covers of the Koran is just God’s unaltered word,” he says. "They like to quote the textual work that shows that the Bible has a history and did not fall straight out of the sky, but until now the Koran has been out of this discussion. The only way to break through this wall is to prove that the Koran has a history too. The Sana’a fragments will help us to do this.
Puin is not alone in his enthusiasm. “The impact of the Yemeni manuscripts is still to be felt,” says Andrew Rippin, a professor of religious studies at the University of Calgary, who is at the forefront of Koranic studies today. "Their variant readings and verse orders are all very significant. Everybody agrees on that. These manuscripts say that the early history of the Koranic text is much more of an open question than many have suspected: the text was less stable, and therefore had less authority, than has always been claimed.”

cremesti.com/amalid/Islam/Yemeni_Ancient_Koranic_Texts.htm
 
Dear Sam,

Still the old manuscript is predicted to be from the 7th to the 8th century. That means the manuscript was after Uthsman burned the old fragments of Quran, and came out with a single new version. Do you ever study about Uthsman burning the old fragments of Quran. It will be great to know your opinion about this. Thanks in advance.
 
swariffin said:
Dear Sam,

Still the old manuscript is predicted to be from the 7th to the 8th century. That means the manuscript was after Uthsman burned the old fragments of Quran, and came out with a single new version.
Click to expand...
If that Yemen’s Quran is identical to Uthman’s Quran, then why they didn’t publish it to the public, why all that secrecy.
Do you ever study about Uthsman burning the old fragments of Quran. It will be great to know your opinion about this. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Yes, I’m aware that Uthman burned all Quran copies except one, (E) (A), and I’m against that, who gave him the rights to do so!, wasn’t that supposed to be Allah’s saved words in heavens.
In addition to that, are you aware that some suras of the Quran have been eaten by a goat under Aisha’s bed (Sunan Abn Majah, Hadith# 1934), that all indicate to me that the Quran which we have today is not the similar one that was in Muhammad’ days.
 
That what we are wondering in other previous thread. Thanks for the info, Sam.
 
Even if the Quran has been preserved in exactly how Muhammad uttered each word, vowel in his own dialect , it is no proof of divine origin. But it is interesting to note what is written in the Sunna:

In Sahih al Bukhari Volume 8, pages 209-210, we read this sermon delivered by Umar :
“Certainly Allah sent Muhammad with the truth, and revealed to him the Book. One of the revelations which came to him was the verse of stoning. We read it and understood it”.
"The Messenger of God stoned and we stoned after him. I am concerned that if time goes on, someone may say, ‘By God, we do not find the verse of stoning in the Book of God;’ thus, the Muslims will deviate by neglecting a commandment the Almighty revealed.

Where is the verse in the current Quran?

Ayesha also testified to a ‘missing’ verse on stoning:

"When the verses “Rajm” [Stoning] and ayah “Rezah Kabir” descended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad (S) a goat ate the piece of paper while we were mourning.
Sunan Ibne Majah, Vol 2, P 39

Has most of Surah Ahzab been lost?
Al-Muttaqi 'Ali bin Husam al-Din in his book “Mukhtasar Kanz al-'Ummal” printed on the margin of Imam Ahmad’s Musnad, Volume 2, page 2, in his hadith about chapter 33, said that Ibn Mardawayh reported that Hudhayfah said:
'Umar said to me ‘How many verses are contained in the chapter of al-Ahzab?’ I said, ‘72 or 73 verses.’ He said it was almost as long as the chapter of the Cow, which contains 287 verses, and in it there was the verse of stoning.

Has most of the Qur’an been lost?
Allama Jalaluddin Suyuti records the following words of Abdullah ibne Umar: “No one can proclaim that I have found the Qur’an complete because most of the Qur’an has been lost”. " Tafseer Durre Manthur" as-Suyuti Volume 1 page 104

A missing verse on suckling
Muslim also reported in the Book of al-Rida’ah (Book of Nursing), part 10, page 29, that 'Ayesha said the following:

“There was in what was revealed in the Qur’an that ten times of nursing known with certainty makes the nursing woman a mother of a nursed child. This number of nursing would make the woman ‘haram’ (forbidden) to the child. Then this verse was replaced by ‘five known nursing’ to make the woman forbidden to the child. The Prophet died while these words were recorded and read in the Qur’an.”
 
It has long been known that variant copies of the Koran exist, including some found in 1972 in a paper grave at Sa’na in Yemen, the subject of a cover story in the January 1999 Atlantic Monthly. Before the Yemeni authorities shut the door to Western scholars, two German academics, Gerhard R Puin and H C Graf von Bothmer, made 35,000 microfilm copies, which remain at the University of the Saarland. Many scholars believe that the German archive, which includes photocopies of manuscripts as old as 700 AD, will provide more evidence of variation in the Koran.

atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak03.html

Throughout the Internet, Islamist sites denounce the work of a handful of marginalized scholars as evidence of a plot by Christian missionaries to sabotage Islam. What the Muslim world cannot conceal is its vulnerability and fear in the face of Koranic criticism. In the great battle for converts through the Global South, this may turn out to be a paralyzing disadvantage.
 
Islamic site about Qur’anic Manuscripts.

Very comprehensive, even has pictures. This isn’t something very secretive as other posters have suggested.

(The verse about stoning, scholars agree, is a verse which was abrogated as far as the text, but not in meaning. In other words, God removed it from the text of the Qur’an, it is not recited anymore, but the meaning of it, the ruling of it, remains.)
 
Sister_Amy said:
In other words, God removed it from the text of the Qur’an, it is not recited anymore, but the meaning of it, the ruling of it, remains.)
Click to expand...
1-why will Allah remove what he has already uttered?
2-Are all the abrogated rules wiped out from the text as well?
3-Why remove it from the text if it still applies?
4-Where do you read from the hadith that Allah removed it from the book?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Islamic site about Qur’anic Manuscripts.

Very comprehensive, even has pictures. This isn’t something very secretive as other posters have suggested.

(The verse about stoning, scholars agree, is a verse which was abrogated as far as the text, but not in meaning. In other words, God removed it from the text of the Qur’an, it is not recited anymore, but the meaning of it, the ruling of it, remains.)
Click to expand...
So, the quran is… corrupted?:eek:
 
Also a darned animal with four legs known as a goat ate a piece of the all-powerful Allah’s Quran.

“Narrated by Hazrat Ā’ishah that ayat-e-Rajm and ayat Raza’at were revealed, they were written on something. I kept them under the cart, meanwhile the holy prophet died and we became busy and one GOAT came and ATE those ayyat” (Ibn-e-Maja).

Also found in Sunan Ibne Majah, Volume 2, Pages 39, Published Karachi.

Can’t find this Sunan sources, whatever
 
The finding of the Qumran and Dead Sea documents haven’t done anything to dampen the vigor of Christian fundamentalism, have they?
 
Delta2 said:
Also a darned animal with four legs known as a goat ate a piece of the all-powerful Allah’s Quran.

“Narrated by Hazrat Ā’ishah that ayat-e-Rajm and ayat Raza’at were revealed, they were written on something. I kept them under the cart, meanwhile the holy prophet died and we became busy and one GOAT came and ATE those ayyat” (Ibn-e-Maja).

Also found in Sunan Ibne Majah, Volume 2, Pages 39, Published Karachi.

Can’t find this Sunan sources, whatever
Click to expand...
How did that story go, what happened to those ayyat? 🙂

In the Old Testament* we have an ancient prophet who ate the scroll and it taste like honey in his mouth. Do you think it’s possible that the above hadith is Islam’s version of scroll eating?

*Ez 3:3; Rev10:10
 
Delta2 said:
About the history of the church ? inquisition and all that stuff ?
Click to expand...
No, I was talking about (mostly) Protestant fundamentalism, strict 6-day creationism, dispensational premillennialism, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top