The Old Testament - is it for REAL?

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How much of the Old Testament are you supposed to believe in, word per word?

Are we supposed to believe that Noah built an ark and crammed each gender of every animal in the world into that ark while the world flooded?

Are we supposed to believe that Jonah was in a whale’s mouth for days and then got spit back out alive?

Are we supposed to believe in the tower of babel, the ten plagues, the pillar of salt… etc etc?

And if these things didn’t actually happen, did the people involved even exist?
 
How much of the Old Testament are you supposed to believe in, word per word?

Are we supposed to believe that Noah built an ark and crammed each gender of every animal in the world into that ark while the world flooded?

Are we supposed to believe that Jonah was in a whale’s mouth for days and then got spit back out alive?

Are we supposed to believe in the tower of babel, the ten plagues, the pillar of salt… etc etc?

And if these things didn’t actually happen, did the people involved even exist?
None of it is historiacal.
But there is a Biblical Message to it.
 
None of it is historiacal.
But there is a Biblical Message to it.
Is this a De Fide doctrine? Where are you drawing this conclusion, from what Magisterial Teaching, because I am quite unaware of any teaching that would teach that “NONE of the Old Testament is historical.”

God bless.
 
Yes it is. I could get into a lenghty dicussion here, but suffice it to say. It is only in modern times because of Modern Scripture exegesis that is not in line with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church [and I am not meaning all Modern Scripture exegesis] are questioning whether the things happened are real or not real.

All through the Church’s history, Teaching, and Traditition she has held fast to the to truth contained in the OT and NT. Truth never changes.

God bless.
 
How much of the Old Testament are you supposed to believe in, word per word?

Are we supposed to believe that Noah built an ark and crammed each gender of every animal in the world into that ark while the world flooded?

Are we supposed to believe that Jonah was in a whale’s mouth for days and then got spit back out alive?

Are we supposed to believe in the tower of babel, the ten plagues, the pillar of salt… etc etc?

And if these things didn’t actually happen, did the people involved even exist?
Are we to believe that there was an Adam and Eve? and that there was actually two trees in the middle of the garden,the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? What are we to believe about the commandment that God gave to Adam "“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

There is another verse in Genesis that will bring Rev 16 to light -

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

Are we to believe that that Prophecy of River Euphrates won’t happen? and what about the minute that Eve ate of the forbidden fruit and the fact that she handed it over to Adam - was God actually walking? Scripture states, “was walking in the garden in the cool of the day” and “21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them” or does an Angel actually guard the entrance to the garden, “of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.”

What would have been of the promise? - the redemption? When reading further in Genesis, it was said that Noah was to bring relief - to bring comfort "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed.”

Again, did the Exodus ever happen - did God really part the “Red Sea” (yam sup) to let the Israelite cross,"And Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. Stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which He will accomplish for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more forever. The Lord will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace.”

Did the Sun Actually Stand Still in Joshua’s Long Day?

What parts of scripture can we honestly say that we should or shouldn’t take at face value? - or what part seems to be too impossible to understand? It would be difficult …very difficult. Your question about Noah - we could say, why did God tell Noah to use gopher wood and not arcadia wood - So I made the ark out of acacia wood and chiseled out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hands." or even the Temple, The boards of the tabernacle were of acacia wood overlaid with gold.- ? or why 40 days/40 nights? Why was it necessary to send a dove? Noah opened the window of the ark and sent out birds, first a raven – the raven is considered a unclean animal/bird, see Leviticus 11:15? -

I know I’m going to get some flank about this post ~ :juggle:
 
Yes it is. I could get into a lenghty dicussion here, but suffice it to say. It is only in modern times because of Modern Scripture exegesis that is not in line with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church [and I am not meaning all Modern Scripture exegesis] are questioning whether the things happened are real or not real.

All through the Church’s history, Teaching, and Traditition she has held fast to the to truth contained in the OT and NT. Truth never changes.

God bless.
So basically, you’re saying that Jonah indeed was swallowed by a whale for a week and then spit back out alive?
 
So basically, you’re saying that Jonah indeed was swallowed by a whale for a week and then spit back out alive?
Yep. Is it really so hard to believe? God is an Almighty God. His Word is Truth.

God bless.
 
Are we supposed to believe that Noah built an ark and crammed each gender of every animal in the world into that ark while the world flooded?

Are we supposed to believe that Jonah was in a whale’s mouth for days and then got spit back out alive?

Are we supposed to believe in the tower of babel, the ten plagues, the pillar of salt… etc etc?
As surely as Christ walked on water, raised Lazurus from the dead and walked out of his own grave.

-Tim-
 
Yeah, it is hard to believe. It is physically impossible.
Just as hard to believe as a virgin giving birth or a man being nailed to a cross, buried in a cave and rising from the dead. Physically impossible, right?

-Tim-
 
Well, it’s impossible for a mere man to raise somebody from the dead. . .(Acts 20)

apparently nobody gave St. Paul the memo though. 😃
 
Just as hard to believe as a virgin giving birth or a man being nailed to a cross, buried in a cave and rising from the dead. Physically impossible, right?

-Tim-
This was a miracle - an extraordinary case of God becoming man. We all know the New Testament is accurate.

But I’ve found that even Catholics question the accuracy in the Old Testament.

Especially the story of Adam and Eve, which is contrary to what science has shown us about the origin of the world. Furthermore, as Catholics, we accept the theory of intelligent design as being a possibility. This would completely rule out the story of Adam and Eve as just being more of a symbolic thing than something that actually happened word per word. So if that story isn’t “literal,” than what else isn’t? I’m willing to bet most aren’t.
 
Well, it’s impossible for a mere man to raise somebody from the dead. . .(Acts 20)

apparently nobody gave St. Paul the memo though. 😃
:rolleyes:

Please see above. This is the Old Testament we’re talking about here. No one is arguing the doing of Jesus Christ or the saints in the New Testament.
 
This was a miracle - an extraordinary case of God becoming man. We all know the New Testament is accurate.

But I’ve found that even Catholics question the accuracy in the Old Testament.

Especially the story of Adam and Eve, which is contrary to what science has shown us about the origin of the world. Furthermore, as Catholics, we accept the theory of intelligent design as being a possibility. This would completely rule out the story of Adam and Eve as just being more of a symbolic thing than something that actually happened word per word. So if that story isn’t “literal,” than what else isn’t? I’m willing to bet most aren’t.
Deborah, I ask this in all sincerity and love, as a fellow member of Christ’s body who will be held accountable by God for what I am about to ask.

Is this thread about the historicity of the miracles in the Bible or is there a Church teaching, perhapse based on the Old Testament miracles, which you are struggling to accept? is this a grasp at rationalizing a disagreement you have with Church doctrine by questioning the veracity of scripture or is it truly an inquiry into what God is trying to communicate to us through his holy word?

Maybe my question should just stand unanswered. Maybe I’ll burn in Hell for it. I hope you can forgive me if I have offended.

-Tim-
 
Deborah, I ask this in all sincerity and love, as a fellow member of Christ’s body who will be held accountable by God for what I am about to ask.

Is this thread about the historicity of the miracles in the Bible or is there a Church teaching, perhapse based on the Old Testament miracles, which you are struggling to accept? is this a grasp at rationalizing a disagreement you have with Church doctrine by questioning the veracity of scripture or is it truly an inquiry into what God is trying to communicate to us through his holy word?

Maybe my question should just stand unanswered. Maybe I’ll burn in Hell for it. I hope you can forgive me if I have offended.

-Tim-
Well the Old Testament does have some crazy stuff that we don’t follow (men having multiple wives, the notion that having sex while menstruating is sinful, condoning enslavement, etc etc). But I don’t ask this question because of anything in the OT that I’m trying to get away from.

I ask because I KNOW that at least the story of Adam and Eve is seen (by the Church) as possibly a symbolic thing rather than something that happened word per word. And considering how a little crazy some of the other Old Testament stories are, I was wondering if maybe the majority of them were more symbolic too.

Maybe most of those stories were written in the bible in a symbolic way to teach us about God in a way that we could more accurately understand, rather than being word per word, accurate, factual accounts. We already know this may be the case for the Adam and Eve story. So what about for the others?

Though you seem to expect the worst from me (:p), I ask this out of pure curiosity and a hope to reach a better understanding. Nothing more.
 
How much of the Old Testament are you supposed to believe in, word per word?

Are we supposed to believe that Noah built an ark and crammed each gender of every animal in the world into that ark while the world flooded?

Are we supposed to believe that Jonah was in a whale’s mouth for days and then got spit back out alive?

Are we supposed to believe in the tower of babel, the ten plagues, the pillar of salt… etc etc?

And if these things didn’t actually happen, did the people involved even exist?
A lot of these things are symbolic. Nevertheless they are true in what they are about. For example, Jonah is about a man who did not follow God’s will, and then was covered in spiritual darkness, cried out for mercy, was saved, and then went on to deny God’s mercy to the people of Ninevah, and then God showed him his hypocrisy. To me this is a very elegant and true story.

So yes, the Old Testament is very rich and true. There is so much to learn from everything in it. Is it factual? Not in the way you are looking for.
 
A lot of these things are symbolic. Nevertheless they are true in what they are about. For example, Jonah is about a man who did not follow God’s will, and then was covered in spiritual darkness, cried out for mercy, was saved, and then went on to deny God’s mercy to the people of Ninevah, and then God showed him his hypocrisy. To me this is a very elegant and true story.

So yes, the Old Testament is very rich and true. There is so much to learn from everything in it. Is it factual? Not in the way you are looking for.
👍

This is EXACTLY what I thought!

Thank you. It’s a relief to know that I don’t have to believe that a man was actually swallowed by a whale and lived in her stomach bile for a week, haha.
 
👍

This is EXACTLY what I thought!

Thank you. It’s a relief to know that I don’t have to believe that a man was actually swallowed by a whale and lived in her stomach bile for a week, haha.
I love the Old Testament. It is an absolutely amazing book!🙂
 
👍

This is EXACTLY what I thought!

Thank you. It’s a relief to know that I don’t have to believe that a man was actually swallowed by a whale and lived in her stomach bile for a week, haha.
I’m not a biblical scholar at all, but many parts of the Old Testament are prefigurements of the New Testament. The Jonah story is a prefigurement of Jesus’s passion, Jonah was in the whale for three days, Jesus was buried for three days.

I wonder if anyone can point out a good book on reading the old testament. Mitch Pacwa is excellent in teaching, but I don’t think he has a book about reading the Bible with a Catholic understanding.
 
I remember last year when they had a show which scientists examined evidence of a massive, catastrophic flood which occurred in the Mediterranean.

This is just one example. Of course, word for word literally, some yes some no, but they are all representations of things that did happen. You have to remember the style and way that the early Jewish people wrote to reconcile their world with events that occurred and Gods presence.
 
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