The "Old Ways"

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Miles_Mariae said:
I’m thinking that was just a passive aggressive way to get back at those of us who quoted Pope St. Pius X on Eilish in the Rosary during Mass thread.
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I am thinking that it is not good to redirect this thread from its topic in order to focus on one individual.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
I am thinking that it is not good to redirect this thread from its topic in order to focus on one individual.
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Then stop responding. You replied once to my comment already, and admitted your motivation. Drop it.
 
markadm said:
I think sometimes when people hark on about the old days, they are not decrying the faith or teachings of the Church now. After all, the faith of the Church cannot change. I think they are simply comparing the expressions of faith then and now and finding they liked it better then.

I can understand that. Far too much drivel is taught these days in the name of Catholicism. For example, I read someone telling someone else that their pets go to heaven!!
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I am a very traditional Catholic who prefers to practice Catholicism as it was before Vatican 2, and would even attend the SSPX on occasion rather than hear heresy and witness liturgical abuses at my parish church on a Sunday. But I truely believe that animals go to Heaven as they were in the garden of Eden but were not the ones that fell. I can’t imagine not seeing my precious dogs who are now deceased in Heaven when I die!!
 
catherine_m said:
I am a very traditional Catholic who prefers to practice Catholicism as it was before Vatican 2, and would even attend the SSPX on occasion rather than hear heresy and witness liturgical abuses at my parish church on a Sunday. But I truely believe that animals go to Heaven as they were in the garden of Eden but were not the ones that fell. I can’t imagine not seeing my precious dogs who are now deceased in Heaven when I die!!
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Exactly what heresies are they preaching in your area?
 
Eilish_Maura said:
Exactly what heresies are they preaching in your area?
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A couple of examples of some include the priest telling us at Sunday Mass that all Christian denominations are the same and do the same thing on a Sunday. An example of a liturgical abuse would be bringing the children preparing for First Holy Communion up around the Altar with him for the Consecration and telling them “now we will bless the bread”. Just two examples of many and my parish is just one example of many!!
 
catherine_m said:
. An example of a liturgical abuse would be bringing the children preparing for First Holy Communion up around the Altar with him for the Consecration and telling them “now we will bless the bread”.
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But, did Jesus not say “Suffer the little children to come unto me?”

I don’t see an issue with gathering the children around. Times have changed since we made our First Communion. Kids now have endless games and computers to occupy their minds. Such things give a distorted view of what is “real” in the world.

Bringing the kids around the altar, to me, is just bringing them a little more up close and personal to something that is VERY real, but hard to understand in today’s world of computer generated “everything”.

Bringing the kids around the altar, could be very symbolic in their minds of gathering around the table, much as the Apostles did at the Last Supper.

Just my opinion, not to be confused with Church teachings…
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
But, did Jesus not say “Suffer the little children to come unto me?”

I don’t see an issue with gathering the children around. Times have changed since we made our First Communion. Kids now have endless games and computers to occupy their minds. Such things give a distorted view of what is “real” in the world.

Bringing the kids around the altar, to me, is just bringing them a little more up close and personal to something that is VERY real, but hard to understand in today’s world of computer generated “everything”.

Bringing the kids around the altar, could be very symbolic in their minds of gathering around the table, much as the Apostles did at the Last Supper.

Just my opinion, not to be confused with Church teachings…
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The problem is that the priest implied that the bread was merely blessed, instead of being changed into the Body and Blood of Christ, and that lay people can bless things the way priests do.
 
I think the Holy Spirit was working in regard to making the final prayer, Mass is ended, thanks be to God, when developing the N.O.
V2 changed nothing as far as doctrine. Someone today not following the modern disciplinary changes our modern Popes have made is a non issue.
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
But, did Jesus not say “Suffer the little children to come unto me?”

I don’t see an issue with gathering the children around. Times have changed since we made our First Communion. Kids now have endless games and computers to occupy their minds. Such things give a distorted view of what is “real” in the world.

Bringing the kids around the altar, to me, is just bringing them a little more up close and personal to something that is VERY real, but hard to understand in today’s world of computer generated “everything”.

Bringing the kids around the altar, could be very symbolic in their minds of gathering around the table, much as the Apostles did at the Last Supper.

Just my opinion, not to be confused with Church teachings…
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Those who keep His commandments love Jesus. All who keep His commandments are His children. Age has nothing to do with it. Anyone in the sactuary (around the altar) except the priest or deacon, during Mass is a huge abuse, and is one of the many things that have happened since V2 to lower the sacred position of the priest.
 
latinmass said:
Those who keep His commandments love Jesus. All who keep His commandments are His children. Age has nothing to do with it. Anyone in the sactuary (around the altar) except the priest or deacon, during Mass is a huge abuse, and is one of the many things that have happened since V2 to lower the sacred position of the priest.
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Is this “abuse” according to Church teaching/doctorine, or your opinion?

Therein lies the crux of my question. If, as Catholics we are guided by Scripture AND Church teaching…then are we not obligated by our faith to abide by Church teaching, even if we don’t particularly like it sometimes?
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
then are we not obligated by our faith to abide by Church teaching, even if we don’t particularly like it sometimes?
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Very true, but certain things didn’t happen legitimately.

For example, receiving in the hand was at first an abuse that was later made legal by indult. Likewise, it was never mandated that the Churches be reordered, the complete use of the vernacular was never contemplated, and neither was Mass ad orientem.

As someone who wasn’t alive at the time, I feel pretty let down by those who (mis)“interpreted” Vatican II.
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
Is this “abuse” according to Church teaching/doctorine, or your opinion?

Therein lies the crux of my question. If, as Catholics we are guided by Scripture AND Church teaching…then are we not obligated by our faith to abide by Church teaching, even if we don’t particularly like it sometimes?
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You are right, as a Catholic I assist at the parish close to me even though I would rather participate from the pews. But to help ensure less abuse of the Blessed Sacrament occurs I try to assist at the altar as much as possible.
So I abide by Church teaching by doing what the Church says, now the abuse is not what the Church teaches.
It is not Church teaching that abuses occur in the Mass but it is Church teaching that the Mass is valid if certain parts are done as they should be.
So I accept the fact that it is a valid Mass though not done properly or with proper respect. I respect Christ and do the best I can without disruption for the unity of the Body. I might not like the translation of the Mass, but I say it as that is what I am obliged to do.

Now there are things that are questionable that are not part of Church teaching but just practices that might lead to abuse or even denial of the faith as our practice reflects what we believe. These we can discuss, question and even criticize, with charity as long as we hold to the faith.

If I criticize standing instead of kneeling in front of Jesus I have a legitimate arguement, especially if the response is based of of some materialistic or prideful point of view, such as culture, assertion of the majesty of people, personal preference, etc. as opposed to recognizing the Presence of God.

God Bless
Scylla
 
This leads to my basic issue with those who go “church shopping”.

For me, part of religion, is being told things I may not want to hear, but NEED to hear…to keep my life “between the white lines” so to speak.

Running around, looking for a church or preacher that makes me feel good defeats the purpose in many ways.

My favorite “fingernails on chalkboard” line from others…“I go there because I get FED…”

Um, church ain’t about ME, it’s about GOD…
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
Is this “abuse” according to Church teaching/doctorine, or your opinion?

Therein lies the crux of my question. If, as Catholics we are guided by Scripture AND Church teaching…then are we not obligated by our faith to abide by Church teaching, even if we don’t particularly like it sometimes?
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The problem is you didn’t know before you made the statement. The GIRM is clear on who can and cannot be in the sanctuary. Priests and co-celebrants(others ordained) only. The only shopping I do is for a parish who does not have these type of abuses.
 
latinmass said:
The problem is you didn’t know before you made the statement. The GIRM is clear on who can and cannot be in the sanctuary. Priests and co-celebrants(others ordained) only. The only shopping I do is for a parish who does not have these type of abuses.
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I simply asked a question. You assumed affront. No wonder you get so frustrated with the Church.
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
But, did Jesus not say “Suffer the little children to come unto me?”

I don’t see an issue with gathering the children around. Times have changed since we made our First Communion. Kids now have endless games and computers to occupy their minds. Such things give a distorted view of what is “real” in the world.

Bringing the kids around the altar, to me, is just bringing them a little more up close and personal to something that is VERY real, but hard to understand in today’s world of computer generated “everything”.

Bringing the kids around the altar, could be very symbolic in their minds of gathering around the table, much as the Apostles did at the Last Supper.

Just my opinion, not to be confused with Church teachings…
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Sorry, this statement sure seems like a defense of an abuse if you know it is wrong. If you read the GIRM you will find that lectors and servers are not to be around the altar as well. I am not frustrated at all, I enjoy sharing the truths of the Church.
 
I said “I didn’t SEE a problem…” that was my opinion, thus my question…IS it an “abuse”? So, according to your documentation, it IS…interesting to know.

As someone who spent his childhood as an altar server and some of my adulthood as a lector, it raises some interesting questions…
 
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