The one and only true faith!

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graceandglory said:
There ya go!
There’s a statement.
“The Church was at it’s best at the Council of Trent.”
People could discuss that with arguments on both sides.

It’s still an opinion. It’s okay to differ on our opinions, as long as we still hold true to the one True Faith in the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. No need to schism over it. 😉
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I was exaggerating just a little bit lol. However my point remains the same. We follow the One Holy Catholic Church. We should keep it up for debate on whether we should remain more traditional (my belief) however there is no reason to become schismatic over this issue, because then we would have to leave the One Church.
 
All the history and events, how can I possibly prove that I have the true faith in 2 sentences.
Someone mentioned that times have changed and the church changes with time. The world has defianetly changed, yes. So that makes it ok to go along with the world, oh God will understand…no. And God had nothing to do with the Mass, you are so wrong. Just remember, God doesnt need us, He created us to know,love and serve Him, but yet He has nothing to do with the Mass, the Catholic Church. There is no prayer stronger than the mass.
Most of you have written quotes from the Bible, You can take any quote from the Bible and interpret it many different ways.

What about Fatima. Our Lady apeared in 1917, and hundreds of thousands of people witnessed this. She told us to pray the Rosary everyday. but yet the modern Catholic Church doesnt emphasize on the importance of our Lady and the Rosary.
She appeared, God could have chosen any saint, but He choose our Lady to appear.

Also, when you claim to have the true faith, you know and believe all the teachings of the true church. Someone feels so strong that they are right, but admitted to doubting whether its right to receive our Lord in the hand. If you have the true faith, there is no error.Priests and parishoners are not perfect and we all sin, but the church and its teachings are perfect.

Remember, God doesnt need us, He created all things…yes the mass!

Thank you to all who responded. I know that this might seem hilarious to some of you, but you will not be laughing when you see God and find out the truth. You think its easy to go to Heaven. We can just sit back and enjoy life and follow simple rules, like all the changes that were made in the church. We have a beautiful website, for anyone wanting to know the truth.

God bless you all and lets humble ourselves, we all need it.
 
I normally don’t like to disassemble peoples posts but feel it is necessary in this case since you have so much here.
9nicole said:
All the history and events, how can I possibly prove that I have the true faith in 2 sentences.
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No one is asking you to try and distill everything down to a couple of sentences. Take your time and explain yourself. Let’s pick one thing at a time and discuss it.
Someone mentioned that times have changed and the church changes with time.
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Don’t confuse “changing over time” with “changing with the times.” They are two different things. Yes the church has and does change over time. Inumerable councils attest to the fact.
The world has defianetly changed, yes. So that makes it ok to go along with the world, oh God will understand…no.
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I think we will need more specific information here to have a meaningful discussion
And God had nothing to do with the Mass, you are so wrong. Just remember, God doesnt need us, He created us to know,love and serve Him, but yet He has nothing to do with the Mass, the Catholic Church. There is no prayer stronger than the mass.
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You are quite right here. The Mass is our strongest prayer and the central liturgical institution of the Church. However, the order of the mass has changed over the millenia. There are others here who can explain this if you are willing to listen. I personally love the Tridentine Mass and attend it every Sunday. However I also attend the OF form of the mass during the week. They both have their advantages and are both worthy prayers to our God.
Most of you have written quotes from the Bible, You can take any quote from the Bible and interpret it many different ways.
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Please don’t just make blanket statements. Address specifics.
What about Fatima. Our Lady apeared in 1917, and hundreds of thousands of people witnessed this. She told us to pray the Rosary everyday. but yet the modern Catholic Church doesnt emphasize on the importance of our Lady and the Rosary.
She appeared, God could have chosen any saint, but He choose our Lady to appear.
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Every time I go into church for mass, there is a group of people praying the rosary.
Pope John Paul II dedicated his pontificate to Our Lady.
Also, when you claim to have the true faith, you know and believe all the teachings of the true church. Someone feels so strong that they are right, but admitted to doubting whether its right to receive our Lord in the hand. If you have the true faith, there is no error.Priests and parishoners are not perfect and we all sin, but the church and its teachings are perfect.
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No argument here
Remember, God doesnt need us, He created all things…yes the mass!
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Yes
Thank you to all who responded. I know that this might seem hilarious to some of you, but you will not be laughing when you see God and find out the truth. You think its easy to go to Heaven. We can just sit back and enjoy life and follow simple rules, like all the changes that were made in the church. We have a beautiful website, for anyone wanting to know the truth.
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Please post a link
God bless you all and lets humble ourselves, we all need it.
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Now you have placed a number of statements our here, again with little in the way of back-up.
I believe in the One True Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ whose vicar is Benedict XVI.
If you beleive this is wrong, it is up to you to convince me.

Gotta go to mass now.

Peace
James
 
9nicole said:
I am a traditional Catholic. There are many who think we are a cult. If most of the world is against you, then we know we are doing the right thing, we are the one and only true faith. You cant change God. When the mass changed and rules of the church changed, that was a huge error. The traditional mass was from the beginning and will stay the same to the end!
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Most pointless post. Ever.

And, it’s weird you didn’t capitalize “Mass” in your post, being such a traditional Catholic.
 
Lets go back to the Saints. The Saints are in Heaven, were not. You cant possibly argue with the Saints.

Fr. Adrian Fortescue, The Mass: A study of the Roman Litury
Book: A Short History of the Roman Mass.
“Our Mass goes back, without essential change,to the age when it first developed out of the oldest liturgy of all. From roughly the time of st. Gregory(d604) we have the text of the Mass, its order and arrangement, as a sacred tradition that no one is to touch, except in unimportant details.”
Code: 
                                                     1912.
The missal of St.Pius V was compiled and published in 1570 in obedience to the Fathers of the council of Trent. This is the missal that is used today and will not change and be used for all time.
Pope St. Puis V

I could spend all day writing endless quotes from very important people. But, I know that some of you have turned this into a war of some sort, pointing out my spelling and capitalization errors. This is because you have nothing to defend your faith. You tell me where it says that it is good to make drastic changes to the Mass and Church commandments. What book etc. says this. I have just given you a statement that was made by a Saint. Read the book. I will continue with more, but I have to attend to my daughter. Dont write back ignorant things like “oh, you have to go, its a cop out!” I am not interested in your ignorance.
 
You’re quoting one beati. He’s giving general guiding principles, but not immutable truths. If he contradicts Council’s and Popes, his opinion on that particular matter is not authoritative.

Likewise, no one knew those Popes were definitively saints when they made the changes or introduced new rites (or when the Eastern liturgies were developed). Likewise, sixth century does not equal the beginning and does not imply the liturgy was directly revealed by God (and therefore the “God doesn’t change” argument is irrelevant.) Furthermore, no one Pope is more authoritative than another–the Church today is the same as the one before–it’s not two different Church’s with one subject to the other.

And if you say God inspired the human writers of previous missals, why not the writers of other missals approved by the Church? What objective difference can you point out in their origins?

Anyway, whether such changes are good or not is not for us to judge, but rather those with the authority to make them. I have shown you where Popes and an ecumenical Council have said contrary to what you are arguing.
 
rpp said:
Are you suggesting that the Ordinary Form (OF) Mass is an erroneous or invalid Mass? Are you suggesting that those who attend it or prefer it are not part of the True Church?
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9Nicole, you still have not answered these original questions.
 
Pope St. Puis X is a canonized Saint that warned us against modernism.He said the Traditional Mass and dedicated his life to tradition. As many Popes are.
You all are out to please people, not God.
God doesnt change.
The mass was instituted by Jesus Christ on Holy Thursday, and if you dont believe this then you are not Catholic. Why would Jesus give us the Traditional Mass and then approve modernism.
Your Mass is invalid.
 
9nicole said:
Pope St. Puis X is a canonized Saint that warned us against modernism.He said the Traditional Mass and dedicated his life to tradition. As many Popes are.
You all are out to please people, not God.
God doesnt change.
The mass was instituted by Jesus Christ on Holy Thursday, and if you dont believe this then you are not Catholic. Why would Jesus give us the Traditional Mass and then approve modernism.
Your Mass is invalid.
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You know - There have been a lot of questions asked of you yet you seem intent on simply expounding rather than answering.
You said that you had a “Beautiful wesite” which I asked you to provide a link to in more than one post. - You have not even done that.

It appears to me that you are only interested in speaking out, expounding without backing up and then ignoring anyone who attempts to engage you in conversation. I hope that I am wrong in this assumption.

Now I will ask you - one last time - will you please provide a link to the website you mentioned earlier.

Peace
James
 
I do not need to say anymore, do I. The truth is right in front of you, Saints attended the Traditional Mass, and all the saints that are canonized by the Church.They have also spoke of the dangers of modernism. also, I did not realize that you asked for our website, there are so many letters that I cant remember everrything. Learn more about us at www.sspx.com.

Good enough for the Saints, good enough for me! No need to say anymore!

God Bless

P.S. Dont find the easy way out, I pray this will help you.
The good who truly love God, will be crucified.

I am addressing all your concerns, no more needs to be proven.If I I can help you convert, I would do anything for you for the love of God.Other than that, I am not interested in this endless conversation. But, if I can help, Im here.
 
Hi there! I want to first start by saying that I’ve been reading this thread, and that I don’t want you to feel that I am in anyway disrespecting you.

I think that one of the issues here is that we, all of us, are making divisions here where there shouldn’t be any. Jesus prayed that we all be one, and I think that that is an important point. It’s sorta divisive to call one a Traditional Catholic, and one a Modern Catholic, as we are all Catholics; if you’re not a Catholic, you’re a heretic in some way. Now, I speak as someone who was born and raised in the faith post-Vatican II, who has only discovered the Tridentine Mass in the past year or so.

Adrian Fortesque (spelling?) mentioned that the Mass has remained unchanged since the time it appeared, which is true in both Ordinary and Extraordinary forms, but this does not mean that it did not go through any type of evolution. In fact, the Mass has, for example, numerous points where litanies used to be said; the Kyrie; the “Oremus” in the Extraordinary Form corresponds to the Prayer of the Faithful in the Ordinary Form; and there are more that I can’t recall off the top of my head.

The Church, post-Vatican II, has little about it different from the pre-Vatican II Church…in fact they are one and the same Church. Comparing the beliefs of “Traditional Catholics” with what I was brought up to believe, I don’t really see any discrepancies. Say the Rosary often? Pope John Paul II stressed it so much, and devotion to Mary, that his motto was “Totus Tuus”.

While the Mass was indeed given to us by God, that doesn’t mean that God cannot inspire us not to change the Mass, but to allow the Mass to evolve: i.e. St. Gregory the Great moving the Kiss of Peace to after the Consecration, the insertion of the Creed in the Middle Ages, etc. If the Church is truly founded by Christ, then we have to believe that not only did Christ promise to be with His bride forever, but that He will not allow the Magesterium (spelling?) to err.

As such, Trent defined what constitutes a valid Mass, form, matter, and intention, all three of which the Ordinary Form of the Mass meets: a valid Mass must have the words of Institution, the Host must be made of the proper materials bread/wine, the Priest must intend to do the will of Holy Mother Church. Assuming that the form and matter are there, then the only possible area of contention would be the intention of the Priest; to say that every Priest at every altar, at every Mass celebrating the Ordinary Form does not intend to do the will of the Church and re-present in an unbloody form the Sacrifice of Christ is a generalization that can’t be made, as only God knows their hearts…just as He does during the Extraordinary Form,
 
9nicole said:
Pope St. Puis X is a canonized Saint that warned us against modernism.He said the Traditional Mass and dedicated his life to tradition. As many Popes are.
You all are out to please people, not God.
God doesnt change.
The mass was instituted by Jesus Christ on Holy Thursday, and if you dont believe this then you are not Catholic. Why would Jesus give us the Traditional Mass and then approve modernism.
** Your Mass is invalid.**
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Yep. I thought so. A person so who thinks they are right and the Popes are wrong. There is another name for this. It is called “Protestant”.

As for me and my house, I will serve the Lord and remain in the Church that Christ established, the Catholic Church.
 
9nicole said:
Pope St. Puis X is a canonized Saint that warned us against modernism.He said the Traditional Mass and dedicated his life to tradition. As many Popes are.
You all are out to please people, not God.
God doesnt change.
The mass was instituted by Jesus Christ on Holy Thursday, and if you dont believe this then you are not Catholic. Why would Jesus give us the Traditional Mass and then approve modernism.
Your Mass is invalid.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiousity, are the Ambrosian and Mozarabic tites also invalid? How did they evolve, if the Traditional Latin Mass cannot “organically” change (which is the proper term used since before Trent)? What about the Dominican, or Carthusian, or any of the other rites of the various orders? They have “evolved” from the TLM, and yet, no one fusses about them…
 
9nicole said:
All the history and events, how can I possibly prove that I have the true faith in 2 sentences.
Someone mentioned that times have changed and the church changes with time. The world has defianetly changed, yes. So that makes it ok to go along with the world, oh God will understand…no. And God had nothing to do with the Mass, you are so wrong. Just remember, God doesnt need us, He created us to know,love and serve Him, but yet He has nothing to do with the Mass, the Catholic Church. There is no prayer stronger than the mass.
Most of you have written quotes from the Bible, You can take any quote from the Bible and interpret it many different ways.

What about Fatima. Our Lady apeared in 1917, and hundreds of thousands of people witnessed this. She told us to pray the Rosary everyday. but yet the modern Catholic Church doesnt emphasize on the importance of our Lady and the Rosary.
She appeared, God could have chosen any saint, but He choose our Lady to appear.

Also, when you claim to have the true faith, you know and believe all the teachings of the true church. Someone feels so strong that they are right, but admitted to doubting whether its right to receive our Lord in the hand. If you have the true faith, there is no error.Priests and parishoners are not perfect and we all sin, but the church and its teachings are perfect.

Remember, God doesnt need us, He created all things…yes the mass!

Thank you to all who responded. I know that this might seem hilarious to some of you, but you will not be laughing when you see God and find out the truth. You think its easy to go to Heaven. We can just sit back and enjoy life and follow simple rules, like all the changes that were made in the church. We have a beautiful website, for anyone wanting to know the truth.

God bless you all and lets humble ourselves, we all need it.
Click to expand...
Nice response, however you do sound a bit schismatic. I’m assuming you are SSPX?
 
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