The only singing I hear at Mass comes from cantors

[CarolAnnSFO]

Another problem is that Catholic hymnals do not have the 4 parts. They will usually only show the soprano part in the hymnal. Most Protestant hymnals have all 4 parts so those of us with lower registers can easily see the notes we can sing.

Since I’m an alto, I’ll sing the harmony, if I know it (on those occasions when I’m not singing in the choir – in the choir, I have the music in front of me, and I always know the parts ). I feel a little dorky being the only one singing harmony, but I just can’t reach those stratospheric soprano notes.

 

[lak611]

Some observations:

1. I have never been to a Catholic Church that has 4 part pew hymnals - yet EVERY Presbyterian Church I’ve been to has pew hymnals with 4 part music. Maybe, just maybe, not everyone can sing soprano.

That’s what I have noticed too.

1. VERY OFTEN - there is no music AT ALL attached to the words (generously correctly provided only MOST of the time - at my own church at least 25% of the time the words being sung for the Responsorial Psalm are NOT what is printed). I can’t imagine why people won’t sing when they don’t know the music or lyrics.

If we are not sopranos and the cantor is, we cannot follow her, with or without music and lyrics.

 

[lak611]

Since I’m an alto, I’ll sing the harmony, if I know it (on those occasions when I’m not singing in the choir – in the choir, I have the music in front of me, and I always know the parts ). I feel a little dorky being the only one singing harmony, but I just can’t reach those stratospheric soprano notes.

Unfortunately, only the choir has access to the harmony. I have never seen a Catholic pew hymnal with all 4 parts. Every Protestant church I have been to has 4 part pew hymnals. Do Catholic hymnal publishers even print 4 part pew hymnals?

 

[tom.wineman]

Let the folks in the pews pick the songs ---- even further let them pick the song books.

 

[lak611]

Let the folks in the pews pick the songs ---- even further let them pick the song books.

The organist can pick the songs. Just give us proper 4 part hymnals.

 

[Potato1]

Either at one mass we have a cantor that makes it impossible and fruitless to sing. (loud mic and at a pitch no one can match) Or at the other mass we are singing songs from the top 20 Christian charts. (love listening but can be to protestant for Mass. I miss the regular Catholic songs. So no singing for me, part out of protest and part out of consideration for those next to me.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

Unfortunately, only the choir has access to the harmony. I have never seen a Catholic pew hymnal with all 4 parts. Every Protestant church I have been to has 4 part pew hymnals. Do Catholic hymnal publishers even print 4 part pew hymnals?

I have never seen one, and I’ve seen quite a few hymnals. With regard to those paperback (disposable) hymnals, adding music for all four parts would probably make the text too small to be legible – the books would have to be made bigger. That’s no excuse for the already-large hardcover hymnals.

 

[Ramalama]

I really don’t think you want me singing in church or anywhere else!

 

[tom.wineman]

The organist can pick the songs. Just give us proper 4 part hymnals.

Who says. Maybe folks are tired of jumping thru the organist hoops.

 

[lak611]

I have never seen one, and I’ve seen quite a few hymnals. With regard to those paperback (disposable) hymnals, adding music for all four parts would probably make the text too small to be legible – the books would have to be made bigger. That’s no excuse for the already-large hardcover hymnals.

My parish has hardcover hymnals, but still they are not 4 part hymnals. I have never seen a hardcover 4 part Catholic hymnal in any parish that uses hardcover hymnals.

 

[promethius95945]

The only singing I hear at Mass comes from cantors

How to fix it? sing louder.

If you’re in the congregation, and the congregation isn’t singing loud enough, it’s your job to be part of the solution!

 

[Aramis]

Unfortunately, only the choir has access to the harmony. I have never seen a Catholic pew hymnal with all 4 parts. Every Protestant church I have been to has 4 part pew hymnals. Do Catholic hymnal publishers even print 4 part pew hymnals?

Don’t know about that, but one military chapel made use of the protestant ones during the mass!

There is only one part of the mass where “performance” pieces belong: the meditational post-communion. And even that is highly optional.

Remember also though: the days of the daily spoken low mass. 25 minutes including communion, rapid fire latin muttering by the celebrant, and equally unintelligible latin muttering back!

 

[mary_bobo]

Unfortunately, only the choir has access to the harmony. I have never seen a Catholic pew hymnal with all 4 parts. Every Protestant church I have been to has 4 part pew hymnals. Do Catholic hymnal publishers even print 4 part pew hymnals?

You can get copies of the hymnal with accompaniment thru the publisher of the book. Can’t think of the name right now. It comes in spiral back also but I don’t know how big it is. Have been meaning to buy one but have just never gotten around it. Being an alto also, I croak if I don’t sing harmony.

 

[JButky]

Maybe instead of the choir congregating in one area, have them sit with their families and sing from the pews. This may encoura(g)e others to sing.

One aspect that we have nowadays also is getting people to act the way we want them to act. Many people find this intimidating and shut down even more. The need to sing must be of genuine impulse from the person. Attempting to impose participation on anyone in a specific way is invading their personal freedom.

There are many aspects of the Church and society that exist to get people “involved”. There are quite a few people that will “run for the hills” when this is attempted because it is not a genuine impulse emanating from within themselves. There NEEDS to be a conversion first before it can be manifested.

This thread is a typical example. How do we get people to do this or do that? Is it not enough that the Church speaks to what it should be and the responsibility resides with the individual?

Why is it considered “bad” when congregations don’t sing? If we are all part of the same body (1 Cor 12), we each have specific talents and abilities. The assumption is that there is something wrong with the congregation if everyone doesn’t sing. Why? What’s wrong if it is only the cantor singing? The Cantor is just as much a part of the body as anyone else. To use the biblical analogy, Why must we require the feet do the work of the hands? Why can’t the feet be content to let the hands do what they were made to do best?

So I’m just tossing out this concept to see what you all have to say about it…

Joe B

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Fine with me. I’m a lousy singer.

So am I. But I figure I have the voice God gave me and that’s the voice he wants to hear at Mass!

 

[VociMike]

With all this talk of hymns I feel I should mention that singing hymns at Mass is not the ideal. The ideal is to actually sing the Mass itself. Singing hymns at Mass was just introduced as a way to get *some *music into the otherwise-all-spoken Low Mass.

 

[dulcissima]

We used to have this problem at my parish. Our music director was the cantor 90% of the time. She has an absolutely beautiful soprano voice, which almost nobody can follow. I think some real thought was put into this problem though, because I have noticed over the last few years that we now almost never have just a soprano cantor. We will have either a man with a nice low voice as the solo cantor or a man and woman combination. It has really helped to encourage more of the parishoners in the pews to participate.

 

[Writer]

Hello again, it’s been a while. (Computer crashed and died.)

As a musician and devoted Catholic, my cross is to attend Sunday Mass and experience what appears to be dead, obligatory worship. I play and sing at a Presbyterian church with a continuing history of excellent congregational, choral, and solo singing. I then go to Mass at any of several area churches and experience a near total lack of sound coming from the assembly. They seem too willing to let the cantor/song leader do all the singing and in turn the cantor is too willing to sing for them. The role of the cantor has turned into that as a soloist for the entire Mass. What can we do to change this so that the assembly can take ownership of what is rightfully theirs?

There is a book something along the lines of *Why Catholics Don’t Sing *that was recommended to me. It’s supposedly very interesting.

We don’t notice the lack of singing so much in the Pacific Northwest. It doesn’t seem to be that much of an issue in our parish in Salem, nor was it a problem when we attended the Cathedral recently in Yakima, Washington.

When we have visited Catholic Churches in the Dallas, Texas area, however, the lack of singing seems to stand out a bit more–with one notable exception of a wonderful and reverent Chinese mission Catholic Church we visited. I’ve often wondered why there seems to be a different attitude to singing found in different regions. Don’t know why that would be.

My grandfather, who remains a Protestant, is struggling with music in his church and is looking for a new church home–partly on account of the lack of good and reverent music. So, the issue of music is a problem area for both Catholics as well as Protestants. It always surprises Protestants to mention the names of the wonderful old hyms we (sometimes) have the opportunity to sing at church while our separated bretheren often have to be content with simple-minded choruses projected on a screen in the front of the church; choruses usually devoid of music as much as they are of spiritual substance.

The problem I notice in our neck of the woods is people leaving early–before Mass is ended. As new Catholics, this is something we just can’t understand. But that would be another thread entirely…

 

[ltbpoe43]

I’m not sure 4 part hymnals are worth it for most churches since a) most folks can’t read music b) they are more expensive and c) hymnals sometimes have the readings in them so to save type space the 4 parts are left out - they have to fit in the pew box.

I agree with most of the posters that people sing when they:

1. know and are familiar with the tune (traditional hymns)
2. are invited politely to join in singing by giving number and going over the song if it’s a new response being used
3. are coaxed reverently (or humorously by the priest)
4. the tune does not contain a lot of syncopation in it- Keep it simple

But soft, reverent, gregorian chant or taize music is prayerful also.

P.S. sometimes the melodic psalm is different than the printed psalm because the music and lyrics have to match as close as possible. The refrain however should be as close as possible to what is in the missal.

 

[johnnykins]

I’m not sure 4 part hymnals are worth it for most churches since a) most folks can’t read music b) they are more expensive and c) hymnals sometimes have the readings in them so to save type space the 4 parts are left out - they have to fit in the pew box.

Well, Ok, but I cannot think of any Protestant church I’ve ever been in that didn’t have a hymnal with 4 part music. Does the average Protestant get better musical education than Catholics?

I agree with most of the posters that people sing when they:

1. know and are familiar with the tune (traditional hymns)
2. are invited politely to join in singing by giving number and going over the song if it’s a new response being used

Please no - going over the music right before Mass is a real mood killer. Just as you get in the pew, and want to take a little time to collect your thoughts and prayers - here comes Sr. Kumbaya with the practice session. No Thanks. Been there, done that. Oddly few Protestants do that - yet they sing.

1. are coaxed reverently (or humorously by the priest)

It’s not the coaxing or lack of same. It’s the lack of music; lack of lyrics; lack of taste and lack of familiarity. The priest needs to concentrate on saying Mass in accordance with the texts and rubrics - since that is seemingly beyond the abilities of far too many priests.

1. the tune does not contain a lot of syncopation in it- Keep it simple

AMEN

But soft, reverent, gregorian chant or taize music is prayerful also.

P.S. sometimes the melodic psalm is different than the printed psalm because the music and lyrics have to match as close as possible. The refrain however should be as close as possible to what is in the missal.

I simply do not understand why the words actually used do not agree with what you are given to read - that has always been beyond me. If you want people to sing - they need the words - accurately. Otherwise - don’t complain. Likewise, they need the NOTES, too if it’s not an old favorite…