The only thing that scares me about becoming Catholic...

[TabbyLilac]

… is the no-contraceptive doctrine. Now that I am studying and learning about Catholicism and praying about the many new perspectives that I’m gaining, I find that I DO agree with them. All of them, and for someone who was raised to believe that there was no God, that being anything but pro-abortion and using birth control was ridiculous, this just shows me how wrong I was all those years and how thankful I am that God has brought me to his true Church and is opening my eyes and heart to how He wants me to live.

That being said… I am fairly terrified about giving up contraceptives (which I know I must do, and I WILL do). Our first child, who is now 2 and 1/2 was slightly premature but very healthy. Our second child, who is almost 6 months old, was quite premature and almost died. In fact he had to be flown by helicopter from the hospital where I gave birth to a large hospital with a level 3 NICU. He had a chest tube put in and struggled to breathe for several days, finally being put on a ventilator, which in the end is what allowed his lungs to heal and mature. He is now big and strong although he is prone to respiratory issues a bit more than our first child.

Both times my body just went into labor and there was nothing that any medication or doctor could do to slow or stop it. I am so afraid that if we have another child, it may be born so prematurely that it doesn’t survive. I can’t believe God wants us to suffer through losing one premature child after another… does anyone have some insight on this for me? Some encouragement or maybe ideas or information that I don’t know about??

I know that by becoming Catholic, I must abide by all of God’s laws, not just those that are convenient for me. But I’m afraid for myself and any future babies too…

Thank you for reading.

 

[1ke]

Since you and your husband to be are currently living as brother and sister .(if I remember correctly from your other post) then now is a great time to take instruction in natural family planning.

The church doesn’t teach that you cannot space or plan children, only that there is a moral and immoral way of doing so.

Learning NFP requires some time of abstinence, and if you are taking “the pill” also requires a couple of months for that to get out of your system so you can observe fertility signs.

Look into sympto-thermal, Creighton, Billings, or Marquette models of NFP. Not sure what may be available in your local area for in person instruction, but most also have remote instruction options.

 

[TabbyLilac]

Yes, we are living chastely until our marriage, and I have an upcoming appointment to have the contraceptive implant in my arm surgically removed (minor procedure). Thank you for this information, especially the specific names of the methods. It seems as though most NFP information I was able to get (granted it was through an OB department) was focused on aiding conception.

I am definitely not against EVER having more children (in fact I would be a little sad if I knew for certain that was the case) but my doctor has warned me that it would be best to space them further apart to give my body time to recuperate and prepare, and also so that I can plan ahead of time for some extra help to minimize other physical stresses on my body.

I will look into this, thank you so much for your response.

 

[Kelfa28]

It’s hard.

It’s the hardest doctrine I’ve had to accept.

If I were to give any advice.

Stay away, as far away as you can from couple-to-couple league. They are a total sham.
Unfortunately, they’ve cornered the market on what most Parishes officially use in terms of Pre-cana classes, brochures and teaching couples.

The fact that they allow just about anyone…with absolutely zero experience with the human body…to hop online and take a month or two to get certified to be an instructor. That’s like letting using a “midwife” who got her training done online and has literally zero experience with patients and trusting her with your health and well-being.
I wouldn’t trust that with a ten-foot pole.

I’d look into the Marquette method. It’s expensive but I’ve read and like what they have to offer.

Their instructors are highly trained and are already experts in the medical field to begin with.

Everything is online and they are very quick to reply and give advice. They have forums like this and have their experts keeping an eye on them and answering questions.

 

[phil19034]

Yes, we are living chastely until our marriage, and I have an upcoming appointment to have the contraceptive implant in my arm surgically removed (minor procedure). Thank you for this information, especially the specific names of the methods. It seems as though most NFP information I was able to get (granted it was through an OB department) was focused on aiding conception.

I am definitely not against EVER having more children (in fact I would be a little sad if I knew for certain that was the case) but my doctor has warned me that it would be best to space them further apart to give my body time to recuperate and prepare, and also so that I can plan ahead of time for some extra help to minimize other physical stresses on my body.

I will look into this, thank you so much for your response.

May God Bless you and your family.

 

[phil19034]

… is the no-contraceptive doctrine. Now that I am studying and learning about Catholicism and praying about the many new perspectives that I’m gaining, I find that I DO agree with them. All of them, and for someone who was raised to believe that there was no God, that being anything but pro-abortion and using birth control was ridiculous, this just shows me how wrong I was all those years and how thankful I am that God has brought me to his true Church and is opening my eyes and heart to how He wants me to live.

That being said… I am fairly terrified about giving up contraceptives (which I know I must do, and I WILL do). Our first child, who is now 2 and 1/2 was slightly premature but very healthy. Our second child, who is almost 6 months old, was quite premature and almost died. In fact he had to be flown by helicopter from the hospital where I gave birth to a large hospital with a level 3 NICU. He had a chest tube put in and struggled to breathe for several days, finally being put on a ventilator, which in the end is what allowed his lungs to heal and mature. He is now big and strong although he is prone to respiratory issues a bit more than our first child.

Both times my body just went into labor and there was nothing that any medication or doctor could do to slow or stop it. I am so afraid that if we have another child, it may be born so prematurely that it doesn’t survive. I can’t believe God wants us to suffer through losing one premature child after another… does anyone have some insight on this for me? Some encouragement or maybe ideas or information that I don’t know about??

I know that by becoming Catholic, I must abide by all of God’s laws, not just those that are convenient for me. But I’m afraid for myself and any future babies too…

Thank you for reading.

first - many blessings on your conversion. The posts I’ve read from you this far are inspiring! Welcome home and many your family be granted many blessing and grace from Our Lord.

I just wanted to comment briefly on suffering, which is something the secular world (and even Protestants) don’t seem to understand. God doesn’t will suffering on any of us. However, He permits it because good comes from suffering. When people suffer, it sturs our sense of mercy & love for one another. Furthermore, when a person embraces their suffering and gives it to The Lord; we are often inspired by their heroic and saintly example.

No one wants to suffer, but in the big picture, without suffering we don’t learn compassion, mercy, and love of strangers.

Finally, God doesn’t forget those who suffer. Those who suffer well & die in God’s friendship will be eternally rewarded.

Point is: has hard as it is sometimes we all need to look at how to draw the good out of suffering, it’s the best way to honor both God & our loved ones who suffer and/or die

 

[1ke]

It seems as though most NFP information I was able to get (granted it was through an OB department) was focused on aiding conception.

Yes, NFP is information that can be used to achieve or avoid pregnancy.

 

[TabbyLilac]

Phil19034 you make a very good point… were it not for the long, lonely hours and days and weeks spent sitting in the NICU with my hand resting on my son’s soft newborn head, I may not have been listening for this calling to Catholicism. My faith became stronger than it had ever been before, and has only become more and more strengthened with each subsequent hurdle we’ve faced. I learned to pray for deliverance through something instead of out of it… what a blessing.

 

[Patavium]

Look into LadyComp as well.

 

[StGerardMajella]

Both times my body just went into labor and there was nothing that any medication or doctor could do to slow or stop it. I am so afraid that if we have another child, it may be born so prematurely that it doesn’t survive. I can’t believe God wants us to suffer through losing one premature child after another… does anyone have some insight on this for me? Some encouragement or maybe ideas or information that I don’t know about??

Regardless of what you read on these forums, you need the advice of a competent Catholic priest and medical doctor.

Please do not put your life in unnecessary danger because of advice read on an Internet forum. You do no good for yourself, your future husband, or your children – or the Catholic Church for that matter – if you or your baby were to die prematurely from complications associated with a third pregnancy.

No individual here knows your medical situation, and no one here knows about your spiritual path. Weigh advice from professional experts that have your best interest at heart - not from complete strangers on an Internet forum.

 

[kptrs]

It’s hard.

It’s the hardest doctrine I’ve had to accept.

If I were to give any advice.

Stay away, as far away as you can from couple-to-couple league. They are a total sham.
Unfortunately, they’ve cornered the market on what most Parishes officially use in terms of Pre-cana classes, brochures and teaching couples.

The fact that they allow just about anyone…with absolutely zero experience with the human body…to hop online and take a month or two to get certified to be an instructor. That’s like letting using a “midwife” who got her training done online and has literally zero experience with patients and trusting her with your health and well-being.
I wouldn’t trust that with a ten-foot pole.

I’d look into the Marquette method. It’s expensive but I’ve read and like what they have to offer.

Their instructors are highly trained and are already experts in the medical field to begin with.

Everything is online and they are very quick to reply and give advice. They have forums like this and have their experts keeping an eye on them and answering questions.

I second Marquette.

I will also say that I don’t like Creighton. Some people swear by it, but my experience with it was stressful and discouraging. That doesn’t mean it won’t work for you, but I just felt compelled to share my experience.

I have no complaints about Marquette.

 

[kptrs]

Look into LadyComp as well.

I’ve never used LadyComp but have heard great things about it.

 

[Kelfa28]

I’ve never used LadyComp but have heard great things about it.

It’s crazy expensive…like upwards of $500 for one. I wouldn’t go anywhere near it because I don’t trust STM and that is what it is designed for.

I think STM is the worst and by far the most inaccurate method out of them all and the failure rates are astronomical but the numbers are skewed because no one will admit that they made a “mistake” when using the method.

There are way, way too many variables that will mess up temp readings. Just one glass of wine the night before can screw up your temp enough to misjudge a temp spike.

I can’t trust Creighton either because I’m on a regular anti-histamine for serious seasonal allergies and that will mess up your mucus readings.

Regardless of what you read on these forums, you need the advice of a competent Catholic priest and medical doctor.

Please do not put your life in unnecessary danger because of advice read on an Internet forum. You do no good for yourself, your future husband, or your children – or the Catholic Church for that matter – if you or your baby were to die prematurely from complications associated with a third pregnancy.

No individual here knows your medical situation, and no one here knows about your spiritual path. Weigh advice from professional experts that have your best interest at heart - not from complete strangers on an Internet forum.

I should have typed something like this earlier but I jumped the gun.

Do NOT do anything until you talk to your doctor…especially if you have serious medical reasons to avoid pregnancy.

I do…and I refuse to use NFP because I just don’t trust it at all. Not even Marquette at the moment.

If I find that I want to try NFP again…it will be the only method I might consider because of the competency level of the instructors…but it’s still too expensive.

Which is such a shame.

 

[1ke]

And just for the OP, in case you are wondering, when one has a serious reason to avoid pregnancy and does not believe even conservative NFP (using post osculatory period for intimacy) to be a choice for them, then they may have an extended period of abstinence ahead of them.

Contraception is always intrinsically wrong.

 

[TabbyLilac]

I will consult with our priest and discuss specifics with him and my medical provider. I guess I was under the impression that there are no exceptions allowed but perhaps I need to discuss this, like you’ve said, with our priest before making any major changes and decisions. I am dedicated to my whole-hearted decision to become Catholic, and I know that there will be people who think that they have the right to ask me about very personal, private issues to determine how serious or dedicated I am, but truly I am not obligated to answer to anyone but God. I really appreciate a couple of you who pointed out to make a well-rounded and informed decision in faith. Thank you.

 

[StGerardMajella]

And just for the OP, in case you are wondering, when one has a serious reason to avoid pregnancy and does not believe even conservative NFP (using post osculatory period for intimacy) to be a choice for them, then they may have an extended period of abstinence ahead of them.

Contraception is always intrinsically wrong.

Prolonged periods of abstinence for married couples can also lead to separation and divorce, resulting in the break-up of families and having long-term, devastating consequences on young children. The scars of a painful divorce can mar a young child for the rest of their life.

Again, please don’t take advice from complete strangers on your unique set of circumstances. Seek the advice of a competent priest and medical doctor who is familiar with your specific set of circumstances and can weigh all of the variables involved.

 

[1ke]

Prolonged periods of abstinence for married couples can also lead to separation and divorce, resulting in the break-up of families and having long-term, devastating consequences on young children. The scars of a painful divorce can mar a young child for the rest of their life.

Again, please don’t take advice from complete strangers on your unique set of circumstances. Seek the advice of a competent priest and medical doctor who is familiar with your specific set of circumstances and can weigh all of the variables involved.

Is it your position that contraception is not a sin against the sixth commandment?

Because it sounds like you are suggesting that the OP consider contraception. Which can never be chosen because it is a sin. Maybe I’m misundstand what you are saying here.

The OP came here for support in leaving contraception behind and fully embracing Catholic teaching.

The Church does not teach we must continue having children if there is a reason not to. But the Church also teaches there are moral and immoral ways of doing so. Contraception is always immoral. Always. So is sterilization.

Periodic or complete abstinence is moral. Periodic abstinence through NFP observations is certainly a better option than total abstinence, but some couples have serious reasons to avoid completely.

 

[Patavium]

OP, please refer to the following article about LadyComp where it shows its effectiveness in a scientific study: Freundl, G., et al. “Retrospective clinical trial of contraceptive effectiveness of the electronic fertility indicator Ladycomp/Babycomp.” Advances in contraception 14.2 (1998): 97-108.

See page 101.

LadyComp lasts for 7 years, or you can get financed or you can save it for it.

 

[Kelfa28]

OP, please refer to the following article about LadyComp where it shows its effectiveness in a scientific study: Freundl, G., et al. “Retrospective clinical trial of contraceptive effectiveness of the electronic fertility indicator Ladycomp/Babycomp.” Advances in contraception 14.2 (1998): 97-108.

See page 101.

LadyComp lasts for 7 years, or you can get financed or you can save it for it.

7 years? That is it for a $500 product?

Then another $500? That is ridiculous!

Plus…Lady Comp is a computer. It’s up to you to take your temps and record them…inconsistencies and all.

It will still record all of the errors that will occur with

drinking a glass of wine, taking an antihistamine,

waking up multiple times a night with a baby,

waking up multiple times a night with a sick child,

irregular work schedules,

childhood night terrors,

insomnia issues due to all of the above,

stress due to all of the above

and the seemingly endless list of things that will mess up your sleep schedule you rely on to keep those temps to be somewhat accurate.

If I was temping…it would be a total disaster…regardless of whether I was charting or using Lady Comp.

When I tried to chart electronically and have that interpret my findings it gave me red days for the entire month. Yes, the whole month! I had one green day and I got my period immediately after that one day.
That was like that for months and months. I didn’t need to spend half a grand to look at all of the charts to see that there wasn’t much I was doing differently.

I have mucus all month long…every month. Then it would come in patches when seasonal allergies hit and I had to start taking medication to control them. It was very, very difficult to interpret.
The electronic computer had no idea what was going and and just gave me red day after red day.

Also, I, literally, haven’t gotten more then 4-5 hours of continuous sleep in over 3 years. I wake up at different hours every single night because someone needs something at all hours. There is literally no way you can accurately temp that way…even with a computer.

It’s a terrible idea and a grossly over-charged product that wouldn’t come close to working for everyone.

NFP studies are grossly inaccurate because there is no way to test a real control. There just isn’t one. There are way too many variables. Everyone and everything interprets raw data differently. Individuals can, and do, collect data differently from person to person and from day to day in just one individual.

If you actually look at the data…it’s all over the place. From 2% error to 20%-30% error.

All NFP studies are just companies desperately trying to convince people that their system works.

It’s no different then contraception and those companies trying to convince people to use their products…except contraceptive products can actually test a true control and the user error rate is just so much lower. NFP is much harder to test and the user error rate is astronomical!

Throwing NFP data around is grossly irresponsible and inappropriate. It gives people a false sense of security and sets them up for failure.

All you can do is tell new Catholics what the Church teaches and tell them “good luck with it”.

Some people can make it work extraordinarily well.

Others, regardless of what technique they use, will not be able to make it work. And it only takes one unplanned pregnancy, when you’re desperately trying to avoid, to be able to put that in perspective and come to the realization of “what in the world are we going to do?”

What bugs me the most about this whole thing is when you have an unplanned pregnancy in the non-Catholic world…there are actual options. Real ones. You can try something different and take a different approach. You can listen to your doctor and do something different.

In the Catholic world…there are no options. It’s NFP or nothing. There may be different forms of NFP…but the interpretation is still there in every form and the fear of high user error with always be there. Regardless if it’s you, an instructor or an expensive computer doing the interpretation.

To me, that is seriously frightening.

What is even more frightening is the lives of many women…and their unborn children…are in the hands of a bunch of volunteer amateurs who have zero experience with the human body except their own personal experiences with NFP.

All you need to do is take a couple of months to take online classes and pass a test and you are suddenly certified to interpret charts.

It’s either that or you spend a fortune to make a computer do it…and you are literally rolling the dice to see if that investment actually pays off.

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

To be honest, I just wish there was a way that would make all sides of this issue happy. There would be no abortion if even artificial birth control never failed and was always 100% accurate without a doubt. Obviously, I can imagine this would be so. But even artificial fails, besides which, a Catholic who is willing to remain strong in accepting what they’ve been taught would never consider artificial. Natural Family Planning is, in a way, a natural form of birth control (that can’t be denied) but Catholics can accept this. For which I’m glad. I think we would be far worse off if the Church said absolutely no trying to prevent at all, and only have intimacy with the full intention of procreating. That, obviously, would be extremely hard to accept, and fortunately that is not the case. I fully can understand why a woman would not want to be in an almost constant state of pregnancy. I wouldn’t want to be either. I’m not married, I’ve never had children, and I don’t plan to be married, much less have children. I’m in my forties. What I do wish maybe the Church would allow, without disrespecting Her teachings (because my faith IS strong and I want to keep it that way)….what I wish could be allowed would be a natural, organic tea or something like that which a Catholic woman could drink and it would not have an abortive effect. Meaning, while it would not directly destroy anything that might have grown inside of her, it would just prevent it in the first place. If something like that could be allowed, and it would be natural and healthy, all women would do this, instead of taking pills, which really aren’t healthy. Again, I said it would not have the abortive effect that the pills do…it would be like NFP, only in a more accurate and simple way. If this could be so, and God could condone it, so many problems would be solved on this issue. At least this is the way I feel. I’m strongly against abortion because it is the murder of an innocent child who has obviously already formed, and what really disgusts me is late-term abortion. But I also feel there must be some way, some how, that would be moral and at the same time not make it so hard for women. Especially Catholic wives. I just wish there could be something like that, because I do understand what they might go through. I wouldn’t want to be pregnant all the time either. While it’s a blessing, I think God realizes that no woman would want to be that way for all of the time. It would just be too hard. I agree.