The Only Way to Escape Hell

  • Thread starter Thread starter Shibolet
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Theophorus said:
If you are an Atheist then why not simply say so? Your not going to get drummed off the forums simply for being an Atheist. We agree that the Truth is important, and people are curious as to what ETC stands for, so why not just tell them what it means?
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm… Troll alert?
 
dshix said:
Wait a minute, you are saying there is not a hell?

This is false, in fact, it is dangerous. If a person does not think they will merit eternal punishment they will not care to protect themselves from it in this life. We have eternal souls, and after we die, our soul will live on… to eternal reward or punishment.
Click to expand...
What does it mean, that you serve God only for fear of hell? That’s conditional loyalty and
not acceptable in the “eyes” of the Lord. Did you know that Paul served God only if the dead resurrected? If not, he would rather eat and drink for tomorrow we die. (I Cor. 15:32)
What an embarrassment!

Yes, that’s what I am saying because that’s what I believe. Istn’t wonderful that there is no
hell? It means we are free of fear. Now, we can serve the Lord because we love Him and not because we are afraid of hell.
 
bilop said:
And Jesus is speaking to Jews before his death and Resurrection. For them, at that time, following Jewish law was the path to salvation.

Remember, Judaism was salvific before Christ’s death and Resurrection. Only at His death was the Temple veil rent.

God Bless
Click to expand...
Bilop, listen to this logic: If you follow the Law, you do not transgress it. If you do not transgress the Law, you have nothing to fear. You are saved of punishment. Therefore, to obey the Law is the path to salvation. Does it make sense to you or not? The very same happens to God’s Law, which was given to keep us in the path of salvation.
 
Shibolet said:
What does it mean, that you serve God only for fear of hell? That’s conditional loyalty and
not acceptable in the “eyes” of the Lord. Did you know that Paul served God only if the dead resurrected? If not, he would rather eat and drink for tomorrow we die. (I Cor. 15:32)
What an embarrassment!

Yes, that’s what I am saying because that’s what I believe. Istn’t wonderful that there is no
hell? It means we are free of fear. Now, we can serve the Lord because we love Him and not because we are afraid of hell.
Click to expand...
…

Well, at least it’s obvious you are not Catholic. First, I’ll say that you put words in my mouth. I never said that the only reason to love God is for fear of Hell, I said that if there is no Hell, then there is no encouragement for people who do not obey God to do so.

And, by the way, by Catholic teaching there IS a hell, no matter how much you make your self feel warm and fluffy inside by saying there is not. If you are not Catholic, I guess that doesn’t matter to you, but to us it does.
 
Shibolet said:
THE ONLY WAY TO ESCAPE HELL

That’s from one of Jesus’ parables. The one about the Richman and Lazarus. There was a certain rich man, who, somehow, due to his opulence and pride, as well as his uncharitable life, he ended up with his being thrown in Hell as his afterlife punishment. Lazarus, on the other hand, due to his patience in spite of his ordeal, got to go to Heaven, which in Jesus’ words, meant the bosom of Abraham.

And in Hell, the Richman lifted up his eyes, being in torments, look at Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and asked for mercy, if not for him, for his family. If Abraham could send Lazarus to his family to testify to them, so that they could escape the torments of Hell. Then, Jesus, through Abraham’s mouth said: “They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.”

The Richman insisted that if one went to them from the dead, they would repent. Then, Jesus, through Abraham, said, “If they don’t listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” (Luke 16:19-31)

This prophectic parable has been fulfilled every day for about 2000 years. Christians believe that Jesus has been raised from the dead, but it seems to me, there is no way to persuade them to listen to Moses and the Prophets.

The expression “Moses and the Prophets” means the Law in one word. Christians prefer to listen to Paul and not to Moses. They either do not believe Jesus’ words or that Hell does not exist. It was just a parable anyway, what the heck? At least, they should believe the Prophets for a change. The only way to set things right with God, so that our sins become as white as snow is to repent from our transgressions to the Law and return to obey it. (Isa. 1:18,19) Jesus couldn’t have been more clear, that to listen to Moses is the only way to escape Hell.

Ben
Click to expand...
what are the two greatest laws according to Jesus - the ones all christians obey - or try to.
 
bilop said:
And Jesus is speaking to Jews before his death and Resurrection. For them, at that time, following Jewish law was the path to salvation.
Click to expand...
What do you think ‘path to salvation’ meant?
 
Theophorus said:
I dispute your interpretation, not the parable. In the text Jesus says that if they(the pharisees) didn’t listen to the law and the prophets they then they wouldn’t believe in the resurrection, this text does not say that you must fulfil every aspect of the 613 mosaic laws in order to avoid hell.

While we are on the topic, what do you make of Luke 16:16?
( "The law and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently.)

And yes the Old Testament and Old Covenants foreshadows the New. The New Testament fulfils the Old, this is core christian teaching, Christ is the longed for Messiah, The Davidic king, the New covenant. I’ve never heard of replacement theology before so I cannot comment on it.
Click to expand...
REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY

Replacement Theology is as old as Christianity itself, considering that the etimology of the expression acquired its real meaning with the rise of Christianity.

Some people object to the focusing on Christianity for the reason why Replacement Theology originated, because the Jewish People was not the only ancient people with the original claim to be God’s chosen People.

It’s true that a few other ancient peoples upheld the same claim, but there was never one to rise with the claim that a people had been replaced by another as God’s chosen People.

Christianity became the first religious organization to rise with the claim that a change had occurred in the designs of God, which would define the rejection of the Jewish People, and resplacement with Christianity.

The classical NT document, which would give rise to this Christian policy is found in Galatians 4:21-31.

Paul would compare God’s Covenant with the Jewish People as Hagar, who was Sara’s slave girl, and the Jews as her son, who was rejected even to share with Isaac, the inheritance of Canaan. On the other hand, he compares Christianity to Sara and Christians to her son Isaac.

To conclude, Paul appeals to cast out the slave girl together with her son for the obvious reason that Israel, the Jewish People, would never be an heir with the son of the one born free.

That’s the picture of Replacement Theology and not simply a people claiming Divine election. A group of Interfaith Scholars have classified Replacement Theology as a kind of Antisemitism.
 
dshix said:
I think Tantum ergo meant, “When does Paul contradict Moses morally or theologically?”
Click to expand...
And you’re correct,

Why the Jewish people themselves had the Pharisees who ‘sat on Moses’ seat and interpreted and made laws for the people. They had the authority to do so.

I wonder if the OP is sure not to wear clothes with two fibers and to bury his, um, waste, and how his wife feels about being ritually unclean during her menses. . .

Circumcision is a sign of the Old Covenant. A Typology. Just as the Ark is the type of Mary and Christ is the Holy of Holies.

I love the Bible passage, “See I make all things new”.
 
Kaninchen said:
What do you think ‘path to salvation’ meant?
Click to expand...
Jews who lived and died before the death of Christ, could, by observing Jewish law, and using Jewish atonement rituals, be forgiven of any serious sins, and achieve salvation.

These Jews (as well as “just” pagans who observed the natural law) went to Limbo Patrum (the limbo of the Fathers) where they awaited Christ’s coming when He “descended to the dead” after his Crucifixion.

At that point, if they accepted Christ, they went to Heaven. Heaven was not open until Christ’s death.

God Bless
 
bilop said:
Jews who lived and died before the death of Christ, could, by observing Jewish law, and using Jewish atonement rituals, be forgiven of any serious sins, and achieve salvation.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear, I was asking what ‘salvation’ would have meant/means to Jews because it didn’t/doesn’t mean the same thing as it does to Christians.
 
Shibolet said:
Take a look at Acts 21:21. Paul was teaching the Jews to abandon Moses, to stop circumcising their children and give up the Jewish customs. That’s just one occasion. There are many throughout his letters.
Click to expand...
This is nonsense. Anyone can read Acts 21 for themselves.

"When we arrived in Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: 'You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know that there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.’" Acts 21:17-25
 
Phaedra777 said:
The OP lists ECT. A google search of “Which church is ECT” came up with “House of God ECT”. Search of “House of God” came up with this:

houseofgod.org/doctrine.html

Hebrew Pentecostal. No explanation for what ECT stands for. 14th doctrine denies the Trinity, says Father, Son, Holy Spirit merely titles of God.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the concise answer. 🙂
 
Am I the only one here who has no clue what this guy is talking about?:confused:
Show of hands…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top