The ordination of women as priests

[SunnaB16]

I believe in the mid 70s there was a letter written by a number of Catholic scholars saying there was no scriptural reason for women not to be ordained as priest. And, since women are ordained as deacons (as I understand it) I’m not sure what the issue is if tradition (and it seems there is a long tradition of women being ordained at various levels) and scripturally there is no problem than what’s the problem?

“Catholic” “scholars” have said lots of heretical things since the 1960s. Once upon a time, their type would go off, and start yet another sect. These days, they find it more satisfying to be parasites: promote their erroneous tripe while sustaining themselves by sucking life out of the Host.

Read Joanna Bogle`s article, and a bit extra on Post #18.

It`s ridiculous to say that our Lord was restricted by the customs of His day: the pagan godesses had their own priestesses.

There`s a website called “Roman Catholic Womenpriests” which claims that there were priestesses in the early Church. There were priestesses early on, but they were GNOSTIC.

Ultimately, the truth about marriage and, the Church and the Priesthood, reflects the Truth about the very Inner Life of The Blessed Trinity.

 

[Silyosha]

Yes, I’ll be the first to agree that the “restricted by the period” argument doesn’t make any sense. Who could restrict Christ??
All these links are also helping quite a bit; thank you.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I believe in the mid 70s there was a letter written by a number of Catholic scholars saying there was no scriptural reason for women not to be ordained as priest. And, since women are ordained as deacons (as I understand it) I’m not sure what the issue is if tradition (and it seems there is a long tradition of women being ordained at various levels) and scripturally there is no problem than what’s the problem?

]
and since when scholars were in charge of the Faith?

where did you get the idea that women have been ordained as deacons in teh Church?

just imagine what had happened to the Church by now if she given to the desires of people at the time?

 

[FAB]

]
and since when scholars were in charge of the Faith?

where did you get the idea that women have been ordained as deacons in teh Church?

just imagine what had happened to the Church by now if she given to the desires of people at the time?

Women Deacons are a historical fact in the church, both in Paul’s letters and in the early Church writtings. Thier exact role and status in still under debate.
Peace,
FAB

 

[Bailey2]

First off, let me say that I DO NOT under any circumstances agree with the ordination of women as priests. Not at all. However, I do have a sister my age who thinks that the Church’s not allowing women to become priests is unfair and sexist. She doesn’t understand why this shouldn’t be allowed when a woman could be “just as good or even better” as a man at being a priest. I think her problem with this stems from the fact that, even though the apostles were obviously all men, this could be seen as just something that made sense at the particular period in history when Christ lived rather than a specific regulation. I’m not really sure what to say to her about that, so help please. Thank you for your time.

Protestants believe that the Eucharist is a symbol, not real in substance. Thus women priests makes sense. However, we believe the Eurcharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ. Even from a psychological point of view, a woman cannot imprint on the heart, the meaning of Eucharistic sacrifice the way a man can. (I know I’d be shot by some of my liberal Catholic friends for saying so).

I also think that women would not consider a male priesthood sexist if the male priesthood spent more time serving and less time thinking they are somehow more powerful and “higher” because of their priesthood. Only God is “higher.” Sexism is an issue of power, not an issue of division of labor.

 

[Bailey2]

Women Deacons are a historical fact in the church, both in Paul’s letters and in the early Church writtings. Thier exact role and status in still under debate.
Peace,
FAB

Ah yes, I have no problem with women as permanent deacons.

 

[michaeldaniels]

But…your ordination wouldn’t mean anything…it wouldn’t be valid…you still couldn’t Consecrate The Most Blessed Sacrament…just like all the Episcopalians…none of them can do it either…and you would be leaving behind the fullness of truth…ALL the sacraments…why would you even consider or think about that when you know your ordination would be a sham anyway? I am just trying to figure that out

But honestly, if there were ever to be one thing that would make me leave the Church and become Episcopalian, it would be the ordination of women.

Not to say that I’m going to, or even that I plan to. Just stating my opinion.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Why do you feel like God owes you an explanation of why He does things? Honestly…does it really matter…that is the way He set it up and that is the way it has to be. There may be nothing they lack when compared to Men, but that is how God willed it to be…in Judaic and Christian law and tradition, Men are the head, whether it be the family, Church, etc…It is something that just has to be accepted and needs to explanation…it is how it is

What do you mean by this? What spiritual aspects do women lack? What do they lack simply because of their gender? This is one of the things I have never understood about the Church.

Also, women were the first to be shown the Resurrection of Christ, and Mary Magdalen was a very important woman in the early days, and Jesus did choose her.

Side note, the bunny is adorable.

 

[FAB]

Why do you feel like God owes you an explanation of why He does things? Honestly…does it really matter…that is the way He set it up and that is the way it has to be. There may be nothing they lack when compared to Men, but that is how God willed it to be…in Judaic and Christian law and tradition, Men are the head, whether it be the family, Church, etc…It is something that just has to be accepted and needs to explanation…it is how it is

Genesis1:27 “God created man is His own image, the image of God he created him, male and female he created them”
Were did God set it up that the man was the head of everthing in this verse.
Gen2: 24a ."… and they shall become one flesh" one again, were did God set up the man to be in charge.

Peace, FAB

 

[michaeldaniels]

(Collosians 3:18-20)-18 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter towards them. 20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.

We also have the examples of both Judaic and CatholicTradition (You do remember that as Catholics we are not Sola Scriptura…just wondering if you remember that??) Only men serve as the priests in the Jewish Religion…Jesus stated, “I have not come to abolish the law, but to fufill it”…We have an all male priesthood in the Catholic Church…Catholicism is a fufillment of Judaism…We hold fast to to Tradition which is an ALL MALE priesthood (that is of course if you believe in Tradition…from a Catholic view point)

(Genesis 2:21-25)–21 Then the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam: and when he was fast asleep, he took one of his ribs, and filled up flesh for it. 22 And the Lord God built the rib which he took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam. 23 And Adam said: This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man. 24 Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh. 25 And they were both naked: to wit, Adam and his wife: and were not ashamed.

Furthermore…even though I have debated this point fully and show you scriptural evidence where you said there is none…Ultimately the burden of proof is on you…I am on the side of the Magisterium, Tradition, and Scripture…you are on the side of emotions and personal feelings…sounds like protestant way of thinking to me

Genesis1:27 “God created man is His own image, the image of God he created him, male and female he created them”
Were did God set it up that the man was the head of everthing in this verse.
Gen2: 24a ."… and they shall become one flesh" one again, were did God set up the man to be in charge.

Peace, FAB

 

[michaeldaniels]

Oh yeah…in the 1st creation story…when it says “In His Own Image”…it is not talking about physical bodies…it is talking about the creation of our “Eternal Souls”…You don’t think the Bible is talking about physical bodies in this first creation story do you?

Genesis1:27 “God created man is His own image, the image of God he created him, male and female he created them”
Were did God set it up that the man was the head of everthing in this verse.
Gen2: 24a ."… and they shall become one flesh" one again, were did God set up the man to be in charge.

Peace, FAB

 

[FAB]

(Collosians 3:18-20)-18 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behoveth in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter towards them. 20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord.

We also have the examples of both Judaic and CatholicTradition (You do remember that as Catholics we are not Sola Scriptura…just wondering if you remember that??) Only men serve as the priests in the Jewish Religion…Jesus stated, “I have not come to abolish the law, but to fufill it”…We have an all male priesthood in the Catholic Church…Catholicism is a fufillment of Judaism…We hold fast to to Tradition which is an ALL MALE priesthood (that is of course if you believe in Tradition…from a Catholic view point)

(Genesis 2:21-25)–21 Then the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam: and when he was fast asleep, he took one of his ribs, and filled up flesh for it. 22 And the Lord God built the rib which he took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam. 23 And Adam said: This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man. 24 Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh. 25 And they were both naked: to wit, Adam and his wife: and were not ashamed.

Furthermore…even though I have debated this point fully and show you scriptural evidence where you said there is none…Ultimately the burden of proof is on you…I am on the side of the Magisterium, Tradition, and Scripture…you are on the side of emotions and personal feelings…sounds like protestant way of thinking to me

You left out that husbands are to love thier wives as Christ loved his church, as such he lowered himself to that of a slave. Paul’s letters always need to be viewed with an eye on why and who he was addressing. Since he was a man of his time, his letter would have reflected those thoughts. Remember he also indacted that slaves should be obediant to thier masters, certainly a notion we no longer support.
There are also numerous examples of women as leaders in the Old Tesament and new as well.
I’m not addressing this from the view that women should be ordained, but from what I see in your post as a very chovenistic view on general and a very narrow view of women’s role in the Church. You are diserning to the preisthood. Is is because you want to be the representative of Jesus as sheperd and servant to all, to empty yourself and to follow the Holy Spirit or because it’s all male?

Peace,
FAB

 

[FAB]

Oh yeah…in the 1st creation story…when it says “In His Own Image”…it is not talking about physical bodies…it is talking about the creation of our “Eternal Souls”…You don’t think the Bible is talking about physical bodies in this first creation story do you?

Wow! Were did you get your theology?
God crated man in His own image as always been traditional taught, in physical bodies and souls. Even if ony eteranal Souls, it still makes man and women equal.
Peace,
FAB

 

[michaeldaniels]

If you won’t listen to me, maybe the Douay-Rheims commentary/footnote regarding that passage will earn your trust and respect:

I quote regarding Genesis 1:26
“26 “Let us make man to our image”… This image of God in man, is not in the body, but in the soul; which is a spiritual substance, endued with understanding and free will. God speaketh here in the plural number, to insinuate the plurality of persons in the Deity.”

If you would have read my response, you would have clearly seen that I WAS REFERRING strictly to Genesis 1:26, THE FIRST CREATION story where “God’s Image” is referring to our eternal souls…not PHYSICAL BODIES…which are later alluded to in the 2nd Creation story in Genesis 2. What theology do you follow? Mine is clearly from the Bible…yours seem to be misguided and of your own mind…then you try to put words into my mouth and criticize what I have said even though it is straight out of the very Bible you are trying ot defend in order to prove your point.

and for the record…Im not Chovenistic…but I will follow and uphold the teachings of Christ and His Church…despite your outlandish and unwarranted attacks and name calling. Jesus did warn us against people like you…this is what he had to say when he wanted to comfort those trying to do His Will, but being falsely persecuted (which is what happens to those against Women’s Ordination):
Matthew
11 Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: 12 Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you. 13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is good for nothing any more but to be cast out, and to be trodden on by men. 14 You are the light of the world. A city seated on a mountain cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house.

The solution is simple for women…you just need to know, understand, and follow your role in the Church, and it doesn’t include being an Ordained Priest…period!!! End of story…doesn’t matter what good “what if” scenarios you come up with…or you can’t understand why…or it angers you…IT DOESN"T matter…be obedient…our modern society wants to turn women into Eve…“Hey, take a bite of the fruit…you are equal…God can’t tell you what to do”…want to be a modern day Eve? I surely wouldn’t

Wow! Were did you get your theology?
God crated man in His own image as always been traditional taught, in physical bodies and souls. Even if ony eteranal Souls, it still makes man and women equal.
Peace,
FAB

 

[edwest2]

Pope John Paul II:

“I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordnination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”

From Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, 1994

Peace,
Ed

 

[Spirithound]

What do you mean by this? What spiritual aspects do women lack? What do they lack simply because of their gender? This is one of the things I have never understood about the Church.

Also, women were the first to be shown the Resurrection of Christ, and Mary Magdalen was a very important woman in the early days, and Jesus did choose her.

Thank you The bunny wiggles his nose in appreciation (feel free to pass him on…)

It is not the case that women “lack” something. Women and men are just different. The soul is a simple substance, which means that it does not have parts, which means it cannot be divided and “mix’n’matched”, and also which means that we cannot speak of a woman’s soul “lacking” something that a man’s “has”. So, basically, what a woman “lacks”, is a man’s soul.

Also, I do not think we should be speaking of what a woman cannot do “simply” because of her gender. Gender is an integral part of who we are, and if our very identity is not compatible with a certain task, that is not a “simple” matter.

Finally, yes! Women were the first to be shown the Resurrection! *But…*so what? It seems to me, actually despite the women’s role as premiere witnesses to the Resurrection, they were not chosen as priests.

 

[michaeldaniels]

The proponents of Women’s Ordination have a wreckless disregard for Scripture, Church Teaching, Church Authority, and Church Tradition…Their Church has become the world and their magisterium is society

Pope John Paul II:

“I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordnination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”

From Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, 1994

Peace,
Ed

 

[choy]

the problem i see is some people think that if women are not allowed to do something, its automatically sexist

no women in the preisthood is not about sexism. Christ clearly knows that women and men are to play different roles within the Church, and none of these roles are greater than the other.

case in point, some would say women staying at home and nurturing children is sexist. they should be out there with their careers. but isn’t there a greater responsibility than moulding children who are the future of our society? not that i am saying that women shouldn’t be allowed to work, but don’t look at child rearing as demeaning and lesser than having a professional career.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Pope John Paul II:

“I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordnination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”

From Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, 1994

Peace,
Ed

I ask again: What about the female persona, gender, body, soul makes her unable to receive holy orders?

Interestingly, Pope JP2 said the Church has no authority, but he did not say that women could not receive holy orders if conferred.

I have the impression that arguments against women’s ordination are very thin, and therfore, are repeated more and more vociferously. I heard a certain Fr. Corapi state very firmly that it couldn’t happen, as though he were trying to end an uncomfortable conversation by using the force of his personality.

Was JP2’s statement above ex cathedra?

Is the Church more afraid of inconsistencies with previous supposedly “infallible” statements than it is willing to tackle the uncomfortable imperatives of theology?

I ask these questions as someone who is otherwise interested in the possiblity of being Catholic, but I don’t think I can check my reasoning at the door.

 

[FAB]

If you won’t listen to me, maybe the Douay-Rheims commentary/footnote regarding that passage will earn your trust and respect:

I quote regarding Genesis 1:26
“26 “Let us make man to our image”… This image of God in man, is not in the body, but in the soul; which is a spiritual substance, endued with understanding and free will. God speaketh here in the plural number, to insinuate the plurality of persons in the Deity.”

If you would have read my response, you would have clearly seen that I WAS REFERRING strictly to Genesis 1:26, THE FIRST CREATION story where “God’s Image” is referring to our eternal souls…not PHYSICAL BODIES…which are later alluded to in the 2nd Creation story in Genesis 2. What theology do you follow? Mine is clearly from the Bible…yours seem to be misguided and of your own mind…then you try to put words into my mouth and criticize what I have said even though it is straight out of the very Bible you are trying ot defend in order to prove your point.

and for the record…Im not Chovenistic…but I will follow and uphold the teachings of Christ and His Church…despite your outlandish and unwarranted attacks and name calling. Jesus did warn us against people like you…this is what he had to say when he wanted to comfort those trying to do His Will, but being falsely persecuted (which is what happens to those against Women’s Ordination):
Matthew
11 Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: 12 Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you. 13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is good for nothing any more but to be cast out, and to be trodden on by men. 14 You are the light of the world. A city seated on a mountain cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house.

The solution is simple for women…you just need to know, understand, and follow your role in the Church, and it doesn’t include being an Ordained Priest…period!!! End of story…doesn’t matter what good “what if” scenarios you come up with…or you can’t understand why…or it angers you…IT DOESN"T matter…be obedient…our modern society wants to turn women into Eve…“Hey, take a bite of the fruit…you are equal…God can’t tell you what to do”…want to be a modern day Eve? I surely wouldn’t

Well that does certainly explain were your theology comes from. The Problem with the interpetation, is at the time Genisis was written, there was no concept of the Trinity, it was only addressing the writter’s understanding of the creation of the world. We look for God’s message of salvation. He created the world for man and women.
I’m not trying to be harsh or insulting to you, but you are asking any one who comes to this site to pray for your discernment. I am all for more preist, but I perfer ones rooted in Vatican II. From the web site for Douay-Rheims, that doen’t seem to be the case. I have not supported women to be ordained as priest, but I do strive to understand the reasoning of those who raise the question. Just saying you must be obediant as I indicated, isn’t enough for most modern women. They are not trying to be disobediant to God, but they do want to find an understanding of and behind the teaching.
Peace,
FAB