The origin of Bigamy?

[rinnie]

Adultery is when a married man has sex with someone who is not his wife. If a man marries two wives, he is not commiting adultery, since both women are his wife. He is having sex with a woman who is his wife.

The point is it’s very difficult to look into the OT and expect to see Christian morality. After all, the Catholic Church teaches that divorce and remarriage are grave sins, but Moses gives instructions on how a man should proceed if he wants to divorce his wife and marry another wife. Moses doesn’t prohibit a man from divorcing his wife, he tells the man, “Give her a certificate of divorce and send her on her way.” Hence the shock of the Pharisees and the desciples when Jesus said that divorce is no longer permitted.

I’m not saying that either divorce or bigamy are allowed, but it’s very difficult to come to those conclusions by reading the OT.

“Thus says the Lord God of Israel: 'I annointed you king of Israel. I rescued you from the hand of Saul. I gave you your lords house and your lord’s wives for your own.” 2 Samuel vs 7-8. See? Wives. Plural.

Once again, I’m not saying polygamy is right. But polygamy, like divorce, were both tolerated by God during the OT, likely for the same reason( hardness of heart). However, when Jesus spoke during his ministry, he eliminated these permissions.

See I know that what you keep saying that. But not according to scripture. Could you please show me where God said it was tolerated.

Because in Deut 17 it says Neither shall he have a great number of wives lest his heart be estranged nor shall he accumulat a vast amount of silver of gold. Great number means multiply wives. And thats exactly what happend to Solomon.

Then in 1 kings its pretty clear what happned to King Solomon, it shows he had plural wives and look what God said. The wives turned his heart ot starnge gods and his heart was not ENTIRELY with God.

 

[Bluegoat]

Telling people to marry their widowed sister-in-law counts as allowing polygamy as far as I can see.

 

[valient_Lucy]

See I know that what you keep saying that. But not according to scripture. Could you please show me where God said it was tolerated.

II Samuel Chapter 12 vs. 7-8. Clear as day.

 

[JohnVIII]

Technically polygamy does exist in the United States. We call it serial monogamy.

I love that answer!

 

[rinnie]

II Samuel Chapter 12 vs. 7-8. Clear as day.

What in the world are you talking about In the O.T the master whose wives were TAKEN and given to David were from KING SAUL. Where in the world does it say that he married any of them??? Or slept with them or had sex?

The wives of saul were given to David for safe keeping so they would not be thrown out on the street.

Are you saying that God is in direct conflict with his own WORD

Matt 19:4 From the BEGINNING man and women would become ONE FLESH, not many.

In Deut 17:14-20 God STATES Kings were NOT supposed to have pkural wives.

I can’t believe you are saying GOd told David to sin!

 

[Publisher]

What in the world are you talking about In the O.T the master whose wives were TAKEN and given to David were from KING SAUL. Where in the world does it say that he married any of them??? Or slept with them or had sex?

The wives of saul were given to David for safe keeping so they would not be thrown out on the street.

Are you saying that God is in direct conflict with his own WORD

Matt 19:4 From the BEGINNING man and women would become ONE FLESH, not many.

In Deut 17:14-20 God STATES Kings were NOT supposed to have pkural wives.

I can’t believe you are saying GOd told David to sin!

Interesting “interpretation” I must say…so…now you have me curious…how do you understand the injunction that a man must take his brother’s widow and father a child with her should the brother die without children? Or the passage in Numbers where God tells the men who are taking a city to kill everyone except the virgins which they can “keep for themselves”?

What about the prophets…some of them had multiple wives…Samuel & Ezra to name a couple…and Gideon…one of the Judges had multiple wives as well…,…were they still prophets and judges of God?

 

[rinnie]

Interesting “interpretation” I must say…so…now you have me curious…how do you understand the injunction that a man must take his brother’s widow and father a child with her should the brother die without children? Or the passage in Numbers where God tells the men who are taking a city to kill everyone except the virgins which they can “keep for themselves”?

What about the prophets…some of them had multiple wives…Samuel & Ezra to name a couple…and Gideon…one of the Judges had multiple wives as well…,…were they still prophets and judges of God?

First of all where does it say GOD ALLOWS this. I agree there was MUCH sin in the O.T. It began right after the fall.

So lets start here, I do not disagree this was MUCH sin.

Pub, remember the first Law of reading the bible. Scripture CANNOT contradict Scripture. ITs impossible. I believe we can agree on that. God does NOT CHANGE nor contradict his word. There is only ONE truth.

Now think back even 50 years ago. What did your Dad or Pap do if their brothers wife or kids were in trouble because the other died. THEY took care of them. We are told to take care of our parents. NO SLEEP with em.

Now I agree back in the day, actually this is a true story. My Mother just told me this 6 months ago. Strange huh.

Now its not the same, but kind of relates to the same thing. Her cousin was dating a man and they were to be married. They were engaged, he died in the war. SO when the other brother came home the parents had him marry her:shrug: He did what he was told. Was it right? I don’t think so. Try that today.

But anyway they did have the unmarried brother marry the widow with kids back in the day. But that was Mans law not Gods.

If my sisters husband dies and my husband brings her in as his wife, that does not mean he would sleep with her. He would take care of her. feed her, give her clothers, a warm bed, (well not that warm) .

But he could do that under my roof. Take care Material care of us both. Its no sin.

Look at the Blessed Mother, Joseph was told to take her as his wife, he never slept with her, she was promised to God,

 

[Publisher]

First of all where does it say GOD ALLOWS this. I agree there was MUCH sin in the O.T. It began right after the fall.

So lets start here, I do not disagree this was MUCH sin.

Pub, remember the first Law of reading the bible. Scripture CANNOT contradict Scripture. ITs impossible. I believe we can agree on that. God does NOT CHANGE nor contradict his word. There is only ONE truth.

Now think back even 50 years ago. What did your Dad or Pap do if their brothers wife or kids were in trouble because the other died. THEY took care of them. We are told to take care of our parents. NO SLEEP with em.

Now I agree back in the day, actually this is a true story. My Mother just told me this 6 months ago. Strange huh.

Now its not the same, but kind of relates to the same thing. Her cousin was dating a man and they were to be married. They were engaged, he died in the war. SO when the other brother came home the parents had him marry her:shrug: He did what he was told. Was it right? I don’t think so. Try that today.

But anyway they did have the unmarried brother marry the widow with kids back in the day. But that was Mans law not Gods.

If my sisters husband dies and my husband brings her in as his wife, that does not mean he would sleep with her. He would take care of her. feed her, give her clothers, a warm bed, (well not that warm) .

But he could do that under my roof. Take care Material care of us both. Its no sin.

Look at the Blessed Mother, Joseph was told to take her as his wife, he never slept with her, she was promised to God,

Rinne,

The Law COMMANDED that the brother married his dead brother’s wife and father children with her…“so his seed will continue”…it didn’t matter if he had a wife already…the Law stated he had to father at least one child with his brother’s widow.

I do not believe in an infallible Bible…I have no problem with a contradictory Bible as I do not believe it’s divinely dictated…it’s a record of what people understood about God…and they could have been wrong…I do not believe God commanded the Israelites to enter a city and kill very man woman and** child…**children were not guilty of what sin their parents committed…so why would the God of love command they be slaughtered along with their sinful parents…if “scripture cannot contradict scripture”?

I believe you are seeking to impose a New Testament understanding of God upon a very tribal view of God the early Israelites had…and polygamy was part of tha world vie…

I would think that if prophets had the “ear of God” and God spoke to them…He might have clued them in they weren’t to have multiple wives…which they did. Yet God is silent on the matter with Gideon, Samuel, Ezra, Daniel all had multiple wives…wouldn’t God say something?

Rinnie, is this your understanding you have posted…or that of your church magisterium? I’d be interested to see if they or if your priest or bishop would also holds your beliefs on this matter.

 

[rinnie]

Rinne,

The Law COMMANDED that the brother married his dead brother’s wife and father children with her…“so his seed will continue”…it didn’t matter if he had a wife already…the Law stated he had to father at least one child with his brother’s widow.

I do not believe in an infallible Bible…I have no problem with a contradictory Bible as I do not believe it’s divinely dictated…it’s a record of what people understood about God…and they could have been wrong…I do not believe God commanded the Israelites to enter a city and kill very man woman and** child…**children were not guilty of what sin their parents committed…so why would the God of love command they be slaughtered along with their sinful parents…if “scripture cannot contradict scripture”?

I believe you are seeking to impose a New Testament understanding of God upon a very tribal view of God the early Israelites had…and polygamy was part of tha world vie…

I would think that if prophets had the “ear of God” and God spoke to them…He might have clued them in they weren’t to have multiple wives…which they did. Yet God is silent on the matter with Gideon, Samuel, Ezra, Daniel all had multiple wives…wouldn’t God say something?

Rinnie, is this your understanding you have posted…or that of your church magisterium? I’d be interested to see if they or if your priest or bishop would also holds your beliefs on this matter.

How could it be a N.T understanding put on a O.T understanding when The first book states when a man leaves his Father and Mother and clings to is wife they become ONE BODY? Why would it say the TWO of them become ONE?

I still do not see where GOD commanded Man to marry plural wives.

Where does the bible state the the old laws were all GODS laws. Many people did what they wanted. Just like today.

The official Church teaching puts in complete line O,T with the N.T. St Matt. confirms it.
It states from the BEGINNING which I showed you.

Look at divorce it is stated Divorce was allowed, Jesus said NO it isn’t. It was for those hard at heart. Where do you see GOD saying Man and Women and Women become one?

 

[Publisher]

How could it be a N.T understanding put on a O.T understanding when The first book states when a man leaves his Father and Mother and clings to is wife they become ONE BODY? Why would it say the TWO of them become ONE?

I still do not see where GOD commanded Man to marry plural wives.

Where does the bible state the the old laws were all GODS laws. Many people did what they wanted. Just like today.

The official Church teaching puts in complete line O,T with the N.T. St Matt. confirms it.
It states from the BEGINNING which I showed you.

Look at divorce it is stated Divorce was allowed, Jesus said NO it isn’t. It was for those hard at heart. Where do you see GOD saying Man and Women and Women become one?

So when the Law of God as stated in…Deut. 25:5-10 commands a man must marry his brother’s widow and father a son…you are saying that this isn’t really a command of God…even though it’s part of the Law given to Israel?

Interesting I must say how you base your conclusions.

 

[SteveVH]

I was always told that “a bigamist” was just an Itallian word for “fog”.

 

[rinnie]

So when the Law of God as stated in…Deut. 25:5-10 commands a man must marry his brother’s widow and father a son…you are saying that this isn’t really a command of God…even though it’s part of the Law given to Israel?

Interesting I must say how you base your conclusions.

If you are talking about the Law of Levivate it states that the UNMARRIED brother marries the widow. Yes that is Gods law at that time.

But show me where it states that a married Man should commit Adultery or bigamy and marry her, Thats what I am asking.

 

[Publisher]

If you are talking about the Law of Levivate it states that the UNMARRIED brother marries the widow. Yes that is Gods law at that time.

But show me where it states that a married Man should commit Adultery or bigamy and marry her, Thats what I am asking.

Interesting…and this is the official Catholic position? I didn’t know that…I learn something new every day about Catholicism and Catholic biblical interpretation.

Like I said…I’m good with you holding your views…I think it leaves the historical and cultural understandings of the times behind. The Levivate law says nothing about the “unmarried” brother…and it was common practice for a man to take his brohter’s wife as his own ALONG with his wife to produce a son for his brother…I guess it took the formation of Catholicsm to set the Jews right on the matter…don’t think the Jews would agree with your conclusion…nor most historical and biblical scholars…but like said…I’m good…thanks for clarifying your position.

 

[rinnie]

Interesting…and this is the official Catholic position? I didn’t know that…I learn something new every day about Catholicism and Catholic biblical interpretation.

Like I said…I’m good with you holding your views…I think it leaves the historical and cultural understandings of the times behind. The Levivate law says nothing about the “unmarried” brother…and it was common practice for a man to take his brohter’s wife as his own ALONG with his wife to produce a son for his brother…I guess it took the formation of Catholicsm to set the Jews right on the matter…don’t think the Jews would agree with your conclusion…nor most historical and biblical scholars…but like said…I’m good…thanks for clarifying your position.

Fair enough. Show me where the Jews disagree with the Church on that law.

 

[Publisher]

Fair enough. Show me where the Jews disagree with the Church on that law.

Ummmm…they practiced polygamy…prophets, priests, kings, shepherds, soldiers and peasants?

The interpreters of the Law allowed it…the Prophets allowed and practiced it…the monarchy allowed and practiciced it… The priests allowed and practiced it.

 

[rinnie]

Ummmm…they practiced polygamy…prophets, priests, kings, shepherds, soldiers and peasants?

The interpreters of the Law allowed it…the Prophets allowed and practiced it…the monarchy allowed and practiciced it… The priests allowed and practiced it.

And the Lord forbidded it. Like I told you earlier Pub, I do not disagree there was much sin in the O.T.

You have not yet showed me where it is not in direct conflict with the book of Genesis. Its in the 2nd chapter.

Show me how a Man can cling to wives Plural. Then you are correct. Until then the word of God stands.

And also show me where any of their sin did not come back to haunt them in the end. Beginning with Father Abraham. Was that not the first lesson for us. It ended pretty ugly the way I see it.

 

[Publisher]

And the Lord forbidded it. Like I told you earlier Pub, I do not disagree there was much sin in the O.T.

You have not yet showed me where it is not in direct conflict with the book of Genesis. Its in the 2nd chapter.

Show me how a Man can cling to wives Plural. Then you are correct. Until then the word of God stands.

Evidently the interpreters and enforcers of the Law in Israel as well as the Prophets, Priests and Kings themselves didn’t get the memo.

 

[rinnie]

Pub. Levirate Law was required by the law of Moses to insure an UNMARRIED Brother would raise up the seed that of the DECEASED Brother that his name be not blotted out of Israel. Look it up.

 

[Publisher]

Pub. Levirate Law was required by the law of Moses to insure an UNMARRIED Brother would raise up the seed that of the DECEASED Brother that his name be not blotted out of Israel. Look it up.

I understand…if he was married however…since polygamy was not forbidden…neither under the Law or by the priests and prophets…he could take his brother’s widow as his wife and make sure “his seed didn’t disappear from Israel”…it never mentioned ‘unmarried’…and if you research it from other sources other than Catholicsm…you may get a different view…you may be surprised.

I’m always facinated the things I learn about Catholic undertstanding of scripture and the magisterium’s teachings from this site…that’s why I keep returning…somehting new and interesting to learn about Catholicism.

As I’ve said…if you’re happy with this understanding and it makes your faith more sensible to you…I’m good.

 

[rinnie]

I understand…if he was married however…since polygamy was not forbidden…neither under the Law or by the priests and prophets…he could take his brother’s widow as his wife and make sure “his seed didn’t disappear from Israel”…it never mentioned ‘unmarried’…and if you research it from other sources other than Catholicsm…you may get a different view…you may be surprised.

I’m always facinated the things I learn about Catholic undertstanding of scripture and the magisterium’s teachings from this site…that’s why I keep returning…somehting new and interesting to learn about Catholicism.

As I’ve said…if you’re happy with this understanding and it makes your faith more sensible to you…I’m good.

You have to remember what is the O.T. ITs still a part of our Church. We know and accept the O.T pub. There is no Catholic Bible if you want to put it that way without the O.T and the N.T. But remember in MY faith they must NEVER contradict the word of God.

Simply because God does not tell anyone to sin ever.

My Dad always told me if I find out that the O.T and the N.T, contradict eachother look from within and find out what I don’t understand, It has never failed yet.

And remember we have S.T. thats not in the bible.

If you want to really learn the O.T there is a site its something like Jewish Christian or something like that. You will learn so much about the O.T.