The origin of Bigamy?

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Since I do not hold the view of scripture nor do I hold sacred tradition as you do…I understand your position…I just don’t embrace it.
 
Publisher said:
I understand…if he was married however…since polygamy was not forbidden…neither under the Law or by the priests and prophets…he could take his brother’s widow as his wife and make sure “his seed didn’t disappear from Israel”…it never mentioned ‘unmarried’…and if you research it from other sources other than Catholicsm…you may get a different view…you may be surprised.

I’m always facinated the things I learn about Catholic undertstanding of scripture and the magisterium’s teachings from this site…that’s why I keep returning…somehting new and interesting to learn about Catholicism.

As I’ve said…if you’re happy with this understanding and it makes your faith more sensible to you…I’m good.👍
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You good? 😃
 
Publisher said:
Since I do not hold the view of scripture nor do I hold sacred tradition as you do…I understand your position…I just don’t embrace it.
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And you know I have no problem with that my Friend. You cannot be forced to hold my view anymore then I can be forced to hold yours.

I just try to do my best to show the truth I have been taught and believe. Hope I did okay:(
 
Polygamy is unholy and never pleased God.
It’s first occurence in the Bible is in the line of Cain together with the second murder. I believe the author was trying to show the maturation of vice (it was the seven’t generation).

When reading the Bible I have learned that we must realize that we are reading human language and try to hear the voice of God through the imperfect human language. Human language is centered on the ‘temporal’ and ‘local’ cultures/mindset. Learning the temporal and local context always helps to get the sense of what is written. So sometimes the Bible say that God did this or said that, but we know God does not speak human syllables. God is not in time. As Jesus said, ‘no one ever saw God except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of God who is in Heaven’.
It is not that prophets are lying when they claim things for God, but we have to read through the litteral modes the prophets are using. Poets for instance say things which aren’t litterally true, but which are true nevertheless if they are grasped in the spirit they are written in.

I read an ancient report of St. Peter telling the story of humanity. Here is how he presents the story of Abraham, Hagar, and Sarah…:
Chapter 32. Abraham.
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In the twenty-first generation there was a certain wise man, of the race of those who were expelled, of the family of Noah’s eldest son, by name Abraham, from whom our Hebrew nation is derived. When the whole world was again overspread with errors, and when for the hideousness of its crimes destruction was ready for it, this time not by water, but fire, and when already the scourge was hanging over the whole earth, beginning with Sodom, this man, by reason of his friendship with God, who was well pleased with him, obtained from God that the whole world should not equally perish. From the first this same man, being an astrologer, was able, from the account and order of the stars, to recognise the Creator, while all others were in error, and understood that all things are regulated by His providence. Whence also an angel, standing by him in a vision, instructed him more fully concerning those things which he was beginning to perceive. He showed him also what belonged to his race and posterity, and promised him that those districts should be restored rather than given to them.
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Chapter 33. Abraham: His Posterity.
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“Therefore Abraham, when he was desirous to learn the causes of things, and was intently pondering upon what had been told him, the true Prophet appeared to him, who alone knows the hearts and purpose of men, and disclosed to him all things which he desired. He taught him the knowledge of the Divinity; intimated the origin of the world, and likewise its end; showed him the immortality of the soul, and the manner of life which was pleasing to God; declared also the resurrection of the dead, the future judgment, the reward of the good, the punishment of the evil,— all to be regulated by righteous judgment: and having given him all this information plainly and sufficiently, He departed again to the invisible abodes. But while Abraham was still in ignorance, as we said to you before, two sons were born to him, of whom the one was called Ismael, and the other Heliesdros. From the one are descended the barbarous nations, from the other the people of the Persians, some of whom have adopted the manner of living and the institutions of their neighbours, the Brachmans. Others settled in Arabia, of whose posterity some also have spread into Egypt. From them some of the Indians and of the Egyptians have learned to be circumcised, and to be of purer observance than others, although in process of time most of them have turned to impiety what was the proof and sign of purity.”
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Chapter 34. The Israelites in Egypt.
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Nevertheless, as he had got these two sons during the time while he still lived in ignorance of things, having received the knowledge of God, he asked of the Righteous One that he might merit to have offspring by Sarah, who was his lawful wife, though she was barren. She obtained a son. whom he named Isaac, from whom came Jacob, and from him the twelve patriarchs, and from these twelve seventy-two.
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More @: newadvent.org/fathers/080401.htm
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That adultery of Abraham with Hagar produced conflicting nations, and now conflicting religions. In my understanding, Islam at its foundation, is the rationalization of the relationship between Abraham and Hagar. Among other things, Muslims claim that it was not Isaac who was sacrificed by Abraham but Ismael. Why, because it is Ismael who was his first born son. Now, this is true, but not from God’s point of view. From God’s point of view, the first born of Abraham is the first born of his rightful wife (Sarah), so it is Isaac. Why, because Sarah is Abraham’s body, flesh, as far as God is concerned. God looks with righteous eyes, not with human, time-based, eyes. Now, if Islam were to look at it like this, it would simply cease to exist.
 
rinnie said:
And you know I have no problem with that my Friend. You cannot be forced to hold my view anymore then I can be forced to hold yours.

I just try to do my best to show the truth I have been taught and believe. Hope I did okay:(
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You presented you position fine. I just didn’t realize this was the position of the Catholic church.
 
Frere said:
Polygamy is unholy and never pleased God.
It’s first occurence in the Bible is in the line of Cain together with the second murder. I believe the author was trying to show the maturation of vice (it was the seven’t generation).

When reading the Bible I have learned that we must realize that we are reading human language and try to hear the voice of God through the imperfect human language. Human language is centered on the ‘temporal’ and ‘local’ cultures/mindset. Learning the temporal and local context always helps to get the sense of what is written. So sometimes the Bible say that God did this or said that, but we know God does not speak human syllables. God is not in time. As Jesus said, ‘no one ever saw God except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of God who is in Heaven’.
It is not that prophets are lying when they claim things for God, but we have to read through the litteral modes the prophets are using. Poets for instance say things which aren’t litterally true, but which are true nevertheless if they are grasped in the spirit they are written in.

I read an ancient report of St. Peter telling the story of humanity. Here is how he presents the story of Abraham, Hagar, and Sarah…:
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Sounds good to me, I cannot even define Good and Bad anymore but throught Bible and Church. I have seen Horror turn out to be Blessing and what appeared to me as Blessing be mud. Yes God collapse’s time daily and His miracles are daily. Where I do not know. Though we have some very good indictations of past.

Church Eucharist is my thiinking…Prayer
 
You know, while scripture presents us with Abraham and his wives, I never got the impression that polygamy was being held up as a model for behavior. It looked to me like multiple wives was a source of trouble for Abraham - just from a real practical perspective. They fought, they were jealous, Sarai tried to chase Hagar off, etc.
 
rinnie said:
Unless again you can claim that when the person takes another wife he does not have sex with her.
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In the Old Testament, one was married by having sex with the person. Adultery was when one did not intend to remain in a mutual, economic relationship with the person.

No sex, no marriage.

A reading of the Torah clearly shows that marriage was meant to create, and maintain an economic union between the families. A union that was to last past the death of all parties in the marriage.

Amber
 
amber_lux said:
In the Old Testament, one was married by having sex with the person. Adultery was when one did not intend to remain in a mutual, economic relationship with the person.

No sex, no marriage.

A reading of the Torah clearly shows that marriage was meant to create, and maintain an economic union between the families. A union that was to last past the death of all parties in the marriage.

Amber
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There wasn’t even a “ceremony” required…the “husband” paid the father the “bride price”…picked up his “bride”…took her to his home and the “marriage” was consumated…only a consumated marriage was truly a marriage…a “wife” was one with whom the “marriage” was consumated.

If a man raped a virgin, he had to “marry” her and pay the father the “bride price”…a raped virgin could not be “divorced”.

It wasn’t very “fair” to the woman who is raped…if she is betrothed to another and is raped in the city…both the man and woman are to be stoned to death…the man because he raped the betrothed of another man…and the woman because she didn’t scream loud enough for help…if the man rapes her in the country and there’s no one around to hear her scream…only the man is stoned.

Women were basically “property”…of the father…then when the “bride price” paid…of the husband…the woman could be divorced with a note…a woman could not divorce her husband. Multiple wives were allowed…multiple husbands…were not.
 
Polygamy isn’t the ideal but if there were a 4/1 or so females to males ratio it might be better than allowing 3 out of 4 women live in an environment that scandalizes them.

If there is a 1/1 ratio of males to females a society that allows or embraces polygamy produces hypercompetitive males.

Lamech, the first to take two wives, kinda lets his wives know that.
And Lamech said to his wives Ada and Sella: Hear my voice, ye wives of Lamech, hearken to my speech: for I have slain a man to the wounding of myself, and a stripling to my own bruising. [24] Sevenfold vengeance shall be taken for Cain: but for Lamech seventy times sevenfold.
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The male urge to mate with as many females as possible and the female urge to mate with the alpha male and stick with him are given liscense to drive human behaviour by Lamech. Both Lamech’s wives produce children who invent the tools necessary for the dawn of our modern age. I would even venture to guess that Lamech’s success is what tempted the sons of Adam to practice polygamy.
 
Benadam said:
Polygamy isn’t the ideal but if there were a 4/1 or so females to males ratio it might be better than allowing 3 out of 4 women live in an environment that scandalizes them.

If there is a 1/1 ratio of males to females a society that allows or embraces polygamy produces hypercompetitive males.

Lamech, the first to take two wives, kinda lets his wives know that.

The male urge to mate with as many females as possible and the female urge to mate with the alpha male and stick with him are given liscense to drive human behaviour by Lamech. Both Lamech’s wives produce children who invent the tools necessary for the dawn of our modern age. I would even venture to guess that Lamech’s success is what tempted the sons of Adam to practice polygamy.
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Right it become’s resolved with Christ. Rome pre Constantine is starting to resemble USA today. Add a little Aristotle in the equation and we can proceed to “CIVIL MAN”. All the rest is ego and error. We came out of Dark Ages exactly how??? Well we seem to be returning. I believe Alfred the Great summed it up well, Barbarism will return… “Remember what punishments befell us in this world when we ourselves did not cherish learning nor transmit it to other men”.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Right it become’s resolved with Christ.
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So true!
Gen 11
Sevenfold vengeance shall be taken for Cain: but for Lamech seventy times sevenfold.
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Matt 18-21
Then came Peter unto him and said: Lord, how often shall my brother offend against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? [22] Jesus saith to him: I say not to thee, till seven times; but till seventy times seven times.
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I just have one question My bible say brother. It does not say unmarried brother just says brother. So were did the Unmarried come from.
 
rinnie said:
If you are talking about the Law of Levivate it states that the UNMARRIED brother marries the widow. Yes that is Gods law at that time.

But show me where it states that a married Man should commit Adultery or bigamy and marry her, Thats what I am asking.
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In a way neither adultery or marriage is the intent The living brother provides seed in the place of the deceased brother. The family of the brother who died continues in the name of the brother that died. This only if death occurs before his wife produced offspring. It’s not adultery because the union of husband and wife is not being adulterated by a third party and it’s not marriage because the family that results carries the name of the dead brother as the father.
 
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