The original King James Bible of 1611

[water]

It took many years for the 1611 Version to overtake the Geneva Bible in popularity with the people. During all that time, the authorized version contained the original 80 books (with Apocrypha) of the 1611 version.

In 1885, the Apocrypha was removed by the Archbishop of Canterbury leaving only 66 books.

Apocrypha: King James Bible
* Additions to Daniel
* Judith
* Esdras
* Additions to Esther
* Susanna
* 2 Maccabees
* 4 Ezra
* Prayer of Manassheh
* Sirach
* Wisdom of Solomon
* Baruch (incl Epistle of Jeremiah)
* 1 Maccabees
* Tobit
* Bel

I was wondering why these books were removed from the KJV only 120 years ago?

Thanks!

 

[lak611]

“· In 1880 the American Bible Society voted remove the “Apocrypha” Books from the King James Version. These 14 Books [There are 155,683 words in over 5,700 verses in 168 Chapters] of the Apocrypha had been part of the King’s bible since 1611.
· The “Apocrypha” was officially removed from the English printings of the KJV by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1885 leaving only 66 books.”
thelostbooks.com/missing.htm

 

[water]

Thanks Lak611 for the link. A visitor also provided me the link on my website recently. I’ll read the info on the site.

 

[Mannyfit75]

This brings to a question. Doesn’t the Protestant believe all of Scripture is inspired Word of God just as **2 Tim 3:16 **states?

Since they remove the 7 books then they don’t recognize all Scripture as Inspiration of God. How ironic.

 

[Michael_G]

I was wondering why these books were removed from the KJV only 120 years ago?

Thanks!

Two other note worthy points about the original 1611 KJV. The 1611 KJV had a daily Bible readings which included the most apocrypha books as part of the daily Bible reading. The original KJV also included in the margin notes in the NT references to the apocrypha books which were being refenced in the NT.

In the Original 1611 King James Version we find eleven New Testament verses that the Protestant translators felt were quotes from “Apocrypha” books, and in the margin notes they cross-referenced them as such.

. But now what shal I doe to you? I wil throw you from my face. ([Matt. 23:37](file:///C:/CCD/mt.html#23:37)) [Mat 27:43He trusted in God: let him now deliver him if he will have him. For he said: I am the Son of God. ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in5.gif)[%between%](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in5.gif)

Wisdom 2:15-16 He is grievous unto us, even to behold: for his life is not like other men’s, and his ways are very different.
We are esteemed by him as triflers, and he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness, and he preferreth the latter end of the just, and glorieth that he hath God for his father. [Luke 6:31](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in5.1.gif)[And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them in like manner.](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in5.1.gif)Tobit 4:16 See thou never do to another what thou wouldst hate to have done to thee by another.[John 10:22 ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.1.gif)[And it was the feast of the dedication at Jerusalem: and it was winter. ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.1.gif)1 Maccabees 4:59 And Judas, and his brethren, and all the church of Israel decreed, that the day of the dedication of the altar should be kept in its season from year to year for eight days, from the five and twentieth day of the month of Casleu, with joy and gladness. (Hanakah)
[Rom 9:21 ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.2.gif)[Or hath not ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.2.gif)[the potter](file:///C:/CCD/n_ro.html#9:21) power over the clay, of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour? Wisdom 15:7 The potter also tempering soft earth, with labour fashioneth every vessel for our service, and of the same clay he maketh both vessels that are for clean uses, and likewise such as serve to the contrary: but what is the use of these vessels, the potter is the judge[Rom 11:34](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.3.gif)[ For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been his counsellor?](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.3.gif)Wisdom 9:13 For who among men is he that can know the counsel of God? or who can think what the will of God is?[2 Cor 9:7](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.4…jpg)[ Every one as he hath determined in his heart, not with sadness or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.4…jpg)Ecclesiasticus 35:9 The sacrifice of the just is acceptable, and the Lord will not forget the memorial thereof.[Heb 1:3 ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.5.jpg)[Who being the brightness of his glory and ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.5.jpg)[the figure](file:///C:/CCD/n_heb.html#1:3) of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high:Wisdom 7:27 And being but one, she can do all things: and remaining in herself the same, she reneweth all things, and through nations conveyeth herself into holy souls, she maketh the friends of God and prophets[Heb 11:35 ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.6.jpg)[Women received their dead raised to life again. But others were racked, not accepting deliverance, that they might find a better resurrection.](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.6.jpg)2 Maccabees 7:1-42

 

[conan025]

So much for the claim, “If the KJV was good enough for Paul, it’s good enough for me!”

 

[Church_Militant]

This brings to a question. Doesn’t the Protestant believe all of Scripture is inspired Word of God just as **2 Tim 3:16 **

states?

Since they remove the 7 books then they don’t recognize all Scripture as Inspiration of God. How ironic. Doesn’t make any sense does it Manny?

So much for the claim, “If the KJV was good enough for Paul, it’s good enough for me!”

Every time I encounter someone who says they use the KJV only (Usually calling it the Authorized 1611 KJV) I ask to see it and then when it lacks all the books I hand it back and point out that that is not a 1611 edition and they need to get their money back for it because the 1611 had all the books.

BTW, where do they get the number 80? It looks like they are counting parts of existing books as separate books.

 

[RNRobert]

BTW, where do they get the number 80? It looks like they are counting parts of existing books as separate books.

I think they may be counting other Apocryphal books that are not in the Catholic Canon. I have a NRSV that has these books, namely:
1 Esdras (3 Esdras in Vugate) (1)
Prayer of Manasseh (1)
Psalm 151 (1)
3 Maccabees (1)
2 Esdras (4 Esdras in Vulgate) (2)
4 Maccabees (3)

(1) Included in the Greek and Slavonic Bibles and Latin Vulgate Appendix
(2) In the Slavonic Bible and and Latin Vulgate Appendix
(3) In an Appendix to the Greek Bible

Don’t know if they were in the original KJV, though.

Here’s an interesting passage from 2 Esdras 2:42-47:

I, Ezra, saw on Mount Zion a great multitude that I could not number, and they were praising the Lord with songs. In their midst was a young man of great stature, taller than any of the others, and on the head of each of them he placed a crown, but he was more exalted than they. And I was held spellbound. Then I asked an angel, ‘Who are these, my lord?’ He answered and said to me, ‘These are they who have put off mortal clothing and put on the immortal, and have confessed the name of God. Now they are being crowned and receive palms.’ Then I said to the angel, ‘Who is that young man who is placing crowns on them and putting palms in their hands?’ He answered and said to me, ‘He is the Son of God, whom they confessed in the world.’ So I began to praise those who had stood valiantly for the name of the Lord.

I find this passage echoes themes found in the Book of Revelation. Anyone know when it was written?

 

[RNRobert]

So much for the claim, “If the KJV was good enough for Paul, it’s good enough for me!”

I once saw a bumper sticker that proclaimed, “If it ain’t the King James, it ain’t the Bible.”

I wanted to ask the owner of the vehicle what Christians did before the KJV was written, and what those Christians who can’t read English are are supposed to do?"

 

[MrS]

Amazing that James’ Lutheran wife, Ann of Denmark, converted to Catholicism…

and James spent his last years with his new lover… the Duke

We could have had the same mess a few years back if Ted Kennedy and 49 cohorts were given a presidential task of creating a “new” version/translation : The King Bill Version perhaps.

What they could include or exclude could be a funny thread of its own.

.

 

[rr1213]

This brings to a question. Doesn’t the Protestant believe all of Scripture is inspired Word of God just as **2 Tim 3:16 **states?

Since they remove the 7 books then they don’t recognize all Scripture as Inspiration of God. How ironic.

That begs the question as to whether the DC/Apocrypha books are Scripture or not. Your canon does not include chapters recognized by the Orthodox Churches as Scripture. Does not the Catholic Church believe all Scripture is the inspired word of God?

 

[Dirk_Skene]

So much for the claim, “If the KJV was good enough for Paul, it’s good enough for me!”

O my That brings back memories It has been years since I’ve heard it. And believe it or not I have actually had someone use it as the logic as to why I should accept the error-ridden JKV as my Bible.

Your post made me smile Conan. Thanks for the day brightener :getholy:

 

[lak611]

I think they may be counting other Apocryphal books that are not in the Catholic Canon. I have a NRSV that has these books, namely:
1 Esdras (3 Esdras in Vugate) (1)
Prayer of Manasseh (1)
Psalm 151 (1)
3 Maccabees (1)
2 Esdras (4 Esdras in Vulgate) (2)
4 Maccabees (3)

(1) Included in the Greek and Slavonic Bibles and Latin Vulgate Appendix
(2) In the Slavonic Bible and and Latin Vulgate Appendix
(3) In an Appendix to the Greek Bible

Don’t know if they were in the original KJV, though.

The number 80 is because the original KJV calls the Apocrypha: 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, The rest of Esther, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch with the Epistle of Jeremiah, The song of the three children, The story of Susanna, The idol Bel and the Dragon, The prayer of Manasseh, 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees. Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, and 1 & 2 Maccabees are in the Catholic Old Testament. The song of the three children, the story of Susanna and Bel and the Dragon are in the Catholic Book of Daniel. 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras and prayer of Manasseh are apocrypha to Catholics.

 

[Mannyfit75]

That begs the question as to whether the DC/Apocrypha books are Scripture or not. Your canon does not include chapters recognized by the Orthodox Churches as Scripture. Does not the Catholic Church believe all Scripture is the inspired word of God?

They weren’t taking out for the same reason why Protestant pull them out of the OT.

The Church doesn’t even discourage them. In fact, I think the Eastern Rite Church uses those books.

 

[lak611]

They weren’t taking out for the same reason why Protestant pull them out of the OT.

The Church doesn’t even discourage them. In fact, I think the Eastern Rite Church uses those books.

I own an NRSV Oxford Study Bible that includes all the books recognized by churches (i.e. the books recognized by the Orthodox Churches and not the Catholic or Protestant Churches are in my Bible). Even though not recognized as Scripture by the Catholic Church, I still like the Prayer of Manasseh and Psalm 151 in my personal prayer. After all, we do not just pray the Psalms and the Lord’s Prayer, so if we use our own personal prayers or prayers written by someone other than the autors of the Bible, why not use the “apocryphal” prayers?